UNC 3rd NOA Released
- Thread starter Slowwalker
- Start date
The NCAA basically offered UNC a plea deal with the 2nd NOA. UNC being the self righteous idiots they are decided to decline that plea deal. Now the NCAA is going to offer up evidence of 1st degree murder and offer up the death penalty as punishment.
That's not a position that either Jones or Bilas have taken. Bolas argued (and it was also the NCAA's position at the time) that while fake classes certainly occurred it's not the NCAAs job to set course requirements only to verify that grades were high enough to remain eligible. It's up to the school to ensure its academic standards.Enough that he thoroughly convinced Matt Jones UNCheat broke no rules.
Now that's all incredibly silly and certainly damaged more students than it helped. I am however curious why the NCAA actually flipped its position. Don't get me wrong I think it's great but unusual
More and more the sports world knows now what the real "Carolina Way " meant !! They are and have been for twenty years some CHEATING SOB's
That is the same position I have taken. Unless their are national standards for course of study and national testing, the NCAA cannot decide what is a class and what is not a class. I do not think anyone wants the NCAA sniffing around every campus critiquing every class.
If a class is fake then I think the NCAA should have jurisdiction as to whether it was a real class or not . Deciding how rigorous a class is another story but complete fraud should be on the table for judgement . If it's not then a university can do exactly what UNC did with no consequences .
The NCAA didn't determine what constituted a class. The Wainstein Report did. And because UNC commissioned that report, it is a de facto admission on UNC's part that these classes were illegitimate. This was also determined by UNC's accrediting agency. The NCAA didn't have to, nor did they, determine that these were illegitimate classes. And that's where Bilas completely misses the point.
Once the classes were found to be a problem, the NCAA has to determine only one of two things for this to be a violation.
- Were the classes that UNC determined to be a problem, created for the benefit of maintaining the eligibility of student athletes?
- If not, was the Athletics administration aware of the problematic classes and did they knowingly use them as a mechanism to maintain eligibility that would otherwise be jeopardized?
This has never been about the NCAA evaluating classes. That is a misdirection.
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Major exaggeration is simply not valid in determining right and wrong. NOBODY has ever suggested the NCAA doing what you describe. As already pointed out, the KW report and SACS both concluded UNC had fraudulent classes.
If there was nothing wrong with those classes, then why isn't UNC still offering them? Why did UNC clean house in that department?
Anyone with half a brain knows the answer.
Anyone with half a brain knows the answer.
The Death Penalty should be on the table for all the misinformation (lies) and diversion (manipulating the facts) in order to keep the NCAA in the dark. Forget academics....this is a blatant slanderous attack on the NCAA's charter of authority.
Bilas saying that the NCAA is violating it's own rules, but hasn't been specific. Some guy came back with screenshots of two rules which appear to allow them to do what they are doing. Not a lawyer, so I don't know, but so far Bilas has not provided proof he's wrong.
Keep in mind that Bilas is also the one who strongly complained that the NCAA was mistreating poor ol PJ! Bilas repeatedly called for him to be reinstated immediately. Think about that for a moment. PJ was caught driving a rental that was rented by a convicted felon and Bilas didn't see a problem???? Of course, in that same rant, he defended UNC saying that he took easy classes at Duke too. I now have zero respect for him.
Wonder if you are on to something. Think Bilas is worried about NC setting a precedent he doesn't want applied to another team. Like Duke maybe?
I think Bilas is simply protecting the Tobacco Road rivalry and conference image as a whole . In other words he wants the image the rivalry that Duke and UNC have to remain intact , two elite rival programs free of violations . We all know it's bs but that's why he is shielding UNC , it's the same reason Vitale won't touch the scandal . They want the fairly tale to remain true whether it is or not . It helps Duke and the rivalry if UNC's history isn't tainted .
Maybe if you look up the cases against Georgia and Marshall you will change your mind. Both had student-anthetes and non-athletes enrolled in classes just like UNC. The non-athletes received high grades just like the athletes.
In Marshall's case the professor provided test answers to all the students. Georgia had an assistant coach teaching a bogus course about basketball. The NCAA put both schools on probation.
i'm guessing those institutions that haven't been put on probation by SACS would be concerned. And there are plenty of standards to judge by.
You are partially correct though. I don't think anyone at NC wants the NCAA snooping around every class. They'd be the only ones there for one thing.
It was always fishy to me how prior to the 2nd NOA being released, that Roy Williams was confidently telling recruits that men's basketball was in the clear, some UNC fans were assuredly predicting no harm would come, Jay Bilas started to make the argument that the NCAA had no jurisdiction to assess the quality of classes etc. And all of this before the NCAA released anything to the public.
Almost like UNC had used the delay to lobby the NCAA to give them exactly what they wanted (I.e. Drop direct charges to MBB & FB, set dates to avoid losing any banners etc.)
And miraculously, the NCAA indeed seemed to give them everything they asked for. Yet even that wasn't good enough for the egomaniacs in Chapel Hill. Now it seems this arrogance may finally come back to bite them.
It is hard to draw any other conclusion,unless they just want to kick the can down the road one more year in case UNC can win it all this season.If they had won it last year would we be at this point currently?
Bilas is probably being so vehement about UNC to prevent people from accusing him of being biased as a Duke graudate.
I think it goes far deeper than this. As I mentioned above, last spring Bilas came out publicly and was very vocal in arguing that the NCAA had no jurisdiction over a school's classes etc.
Soon thereafter, the Amended NOA comes out and seems to reflect the arguments that UNC and Bilas had been making.
I don't think this was a coincidence, nor was it a lucky guess on Bilas' part. Instead I think this was a concerted strategy by UNC to sway public opinion, including the use of paid surrogates in the media to promote their point of view.
Remember, this is a school that has paid literally millions of dollars already on lawyers and media relations firms over this case so it's not far-fetched by any means.
Excellent point and you may be onto something. Bilas is still a lawyer and with one of tge biggest firms in dc. Would explain why he's been so adamant even though he's clearly wrong.
Those morons want to sue everybody from the pope to the president for this so called witch hunt lol !! When will those cheating SOB"s give it up and admit what they have done for the last twenty years ? Hey UNCheat do you hear the fat lady clearing here throat and warming up her vocal cords so she can sing to the mountain tops how your pompous ass school cheated and what the "Carolina Way " really means !!
If I remember correctly from my Packpride surfing, at the same time Fedora the football coach was also telling recruits that football was in the clear. This was also the time when UNC had the local homer media start banging the Hatchell and women's basketball drum as "the problem" in the athletics dept.
I don't think there is any doubt that UNC lobbied and peddled it's influence with it's allies in the media (local and nat'l) as well as their NCAA plants to absolve men's BB and FB. It would seem that the success of this behind the scenes dealing gave birth to the 2nd NOA, whose contents UNC was intimately aware of well before they received it.
Vitale also took the same position on PJ. He's still more interested in the NCAA doing something quickly rather than correctly.
His tweet:
This has been a soap opera that just keeps going on on & on . The @NCAA must make a decision already .
Funny to see UNC fans clamor for legal action. Same only different from UL fans wanting to put Katrina on trial - "And now your honor, the defense calls Andre McGee to the stand...."
UNC administration, BOG, BOT, Rams Club, etc., have spent millions and likely called in/mustered all kinds of political favor to shield and bury NyAngoro (sp?), Crowder, and many others in the state legal system to make sure what they would have to say under oath never happens in a courtroom or legal proceeding outside of their control. I can't remember which court ruling it was and which UNC lackey it involved, but the judge in the trial was the son of Dick Baddour, former UNC athletics director (after Swofford I think) who was up to his freaking neck in the mess. Conflict of interest anyone? LOL!
Absolutely no way UNC would ever, ever allow these pathetic criminals the opportunity to spill their guts and bring the house down.
Millions on lawyers and PR firms and you don't have to be Columbo to assume Bilas is friendly with some of those people, and also works for a company run by a UNC alumnus.
this.
their denial has said as much about the scandal as any investigation. this has been consistent from the start.
What I find amusing is that these dimwits' first response is to 'sue' the NCAA. What exactly are they suing over? All the NCAA has done to date is to make allegations of wrongdoing.
UNC has consistently avoided seriously addressing the charges, which is their right and duty. First they came down to the wire of actually having to having to answer the charges [charges mind you that are primarily based on the Wainstein report, which was an investigation directed by and paid for by UNC which limited the investigation to AFAM studies only, did only a cursory to no investigation of the coaches, and limited the time frame] and they foolishly decided instead to employ a lame delaying tactic by introducing additional minor findings. Unbelievably the NCAA neglected to insist that UNC meet the original deadline for answering the original charges, and instead granted them additional time to allow them to respond to both sets of charges together.
Instead of responding to the charges ASAP (which given the fact that they should have already had their response to the original charge prepared shouldn't have taken very long at all), they delayed and lobbied in order to goad the NCAA into a watered down amended NOA which gave them practically everything they could ever hope for.
Yet even that wasn't sufficient for these self-entitled pricks. Instead of just accepting the generous deal laid in front of them by admitting some wrongdoing and taking their lumps, they then proceed to try to lecture the NCAA about whether they even have the right to censure them. Unbelievable sense of entitlement by this group.
Now the NCAA has rightly reinstated many of the original charges and yet still UNC's first response is not to finally just respond to the charges, but to want to sue in court? Again sue over what, some allegations that UNC consistently fails to respond to? Maybe they should wait until after they've provided their response and the NCAA has had an opportunity to actually levy some punishment before they cry wolf? As if this scandal couldn't get any more ridiculous.
Frankly they're still getting a great bargain out of this. The NCAA has foolishly allowed UNC to direct one ineffectual investigation after another for years, only to be embarrassed time after time when even a cursory examination of their work reveals that much had been overlooked or left out. If they think things are bad for them now, what would they think if the NCAA decided to actually do their own comprehensive investigation from top to bottom (i.e. not just AFAM studies, but EVERYTHING)?
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On IC they are screaming for UNC to sue the NCAA. IMO there is no way that they want to give the NCAA the right to subpoena witnesses to testify under oath.This does away with there claims they haven't released info due to FERPA concerns.Can you imagine what would come out in testimony if perjury charges were in play
I have been saying the very same thing about the scandal at UL. Please let this move to the courts.
As bad as this is, and it is bad, nothing will come of it regarding mens basketball. The only two places you even see a discussion about this is from NC St and here. The NCAA is washed up, half broke, and is appeasing the few who remotely care. Their darling basketball program, the Heels, will slide by untouched
Its comical to read the Tarhole board and see how they think they are the victims in all of this. They are being picked on. Talk about delusional !!
I know fans can be blind but come on. These people are full out idiots.
I know fans can be blind but come on. These people are full out idiots.
Seems UNC-CHeats likes to make it appear that the NCAA 'drags their feet' in all matters concerning them. PJ never got consideration for reinstatement from the Baby-Blue admin, but Dickie V kept incorrectly putting the blame on the NCAA. He stays on the Rams side without question as they drag this out...now another 90 days to respond to the new ANOA. They bring this upon themselves and expect pity...SMDH!!!!
I will certainly say you know more about it than I do.
