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Tyler Ulis vs. Frank Mason

KnowsAllTellsAll said:
We have equal talent at every position, more experience, and depth.
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What a ridiculous assertiin.

We have a higher rated freshman center

we have a higher rated senior forward, who absolutely dominated Ellis last year.

You have selden, who is a junior, but I wouldn't even begin to take him over Murray

You have mason and graham, we have ulis and briscoe. I'll take our guards.

We have 5 players projected to be drafted next year, you have 2.

We have a coach that owns your coach.

So run back to your little board and discuss how the big 12 is going to fix another conference title. You all are completely irrelevant in the national discussion.
 
KnowsAllTellsAll said:
I have made no argument on Diallo in this thread or others on Rupp. Don't attribute nonsense to me as fact.
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You were looking for Murray vs. good competition. A defense that kept Diallo in check is pretty good competition.

But let's just wait and see if Murray is the real deal or fool's gold.

Watch the Pan Am games. That should give us as much of a clue about how good Murray is as the WUG did for Selden.
 
KnowsAllTellsAll said:
Another Kentucky poster posted stats which basically disprove your underlined assertion. Aesthetically pleasing? You not a fan of Alan Iverson or any other attack the rim point guard?
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I can link you to the stats if you so wish. What the stats show is that Ulis is a slightly more efficient offensive, as well as a significantly more efficient defensive player. Also there's a world of difference between Iverson and Mason. Let's break it down to a mundane level though. Iverson was smart enough to know whether or not he could get a shot in the paint to go, or whether he should kick. Mason just kept tossing up floaters, and he kept getting blocked. Iverson would at least kick the ball out if he knew he would get beat on a play. There is nothing, I repeat, nothing aesthetically pleasing about the point guard for my team driving it in consistently and getting swatted consistently. There's where Ulis' game is so much more aesthetically pleasing. He also drives it to the lane a lot, and as soon as players collapse, he gets the ball to the open man with a crafty pass. He creates much better for others, and he's much more careful with the ball. In regards to that skill, Ulis is far superior to Mason.
Back to the underlined portion of my post, efficiency cannot be denied. When the stats show that Ulis is more efficient offensively, and far more efficient defensively, that can only suggest that he's a better basketball player.
 
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Give me ULIS every single time. True point guard and what makes him so good is the way he sets up his team mates.

Frank Mason is only being mentioned right now because he just finished up playing I what ever tournament they won. I didn't hear much talk at all about how good Mason was when Kentucky thumped Kansas in November.

Skill set comparison....

Defense
Ulis > Mason

Shooting
Ulis > Mason

Passing
Ulis > Mason

Athleticism
Ulis < Mason

Handles
Ulis = Mason

Toughness
Ulis > Mason

Experience
Ulis = Mason

Give me Tyler every single time!!
 
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Catdaddy11 said:
Give me ULIS every single time. True point guard and what makes him so good is the way he sets up his team mates.

Frank Mason is only being mentioned right now because he just finished up playing I what ever tournament they won. I didn't hear much talk at all about how good Mason was when Kentucky thumped Kansas in November.

Skill set comparison....

Defense
Ulis > Mason

Shooting
Ulis > Mason

Passing
Ulis > Mason

Athleticism
Ulis < Mason

Handles
Ulis = Mason

Toughness
Ulis > Mason

Experience
Ulis = Mason

Give me Tyler every single time!!
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For the most part I agree except shooting and experience. I think they're equal shooting the ball. Ulis may have more range but both shot 42.9% from 3 last year. When it comes to experience Mason has a full year of starting, Ulis does not. Ulis is amazing but it's more equal than you guys believe and more equal than KU fans believe.
 
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Selden certainly didn't break out during the final. His shooting percentage was laughable. He's a good, not great college player. He'll never make it in the pros imo
 
To sum up this thread, most posters believe that Ulis is better than Mason, Skal is better than Diallo, Murray better than Selden, Briscoe is better than Graham, Poy better than Ellis, Cal is a better coach than Bill, Kentucky bench better than the Kansas bench. It is clear even though playing the game at AFH, Kentucky is the overwhelming favorite to win. Not only will be this be a great game between two strong teams, it will be a test of the Kentucky fan base on their understanding and knowledge of basketball.
 
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RC_Texas said:
To sum up this thread, most posters believe that Ulis is better than Mason, Skal is better than Diallo, Murray better than Selden, Briscoe is better than Graham, Poy better than Ellis, Cal is a better coach than Bill, Kentucky bench better than the Kansas bench. It is clear even though playing the game at AFH, Kentucky is the overwhelming favorite to win. Not only will be this be a great game between two strong teams, it will be a test of the Kentucky fan base on their understanding and knowledge of basketball.
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and we all know its the same test ku fans have failed time and time again over the past several years right? right? i mean this is a fan base that continues to come to a uk board and try to sell the notion that laden lucas is a good player.
 
I am new here. I have never seen the Lucas posts. I think that Landen Lucas is the 4th or 5th best BIG on the Kansas team. He is down the depth chart. However, he plays a role. But that isn't important. So, BostonCat, you are suggesting that you should be held accountable to a lower standards that you don't agree with based on those previous posts that I haven't seen? Okay, I understand now.
 
I simply won't buy Kansas. They're deep, but not deep with extraordinary talent.

And even in regards to depth, UK is 8 deep (and will potentially be 9 deep in December if Wynyard can come in and play immediately).
 
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KnowsAllTellsAll said:
This was a weak class for guards.
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I also want to respond to this. He's from the 2016 class originally, and was top 10 there, and that is the strongest guard class since 2009 maybe, and is believed to be the deepest in many years.
 
MdWIldcat55 said:
I suppose you could say Kansas has more experience -- they certainly have more experience losing. If you think making the Final Four is positive experience, and preparation for a good tourney run the following year, then Kentucky has it. Experience is more than adding up how many players are srs., jrs., sophomores, etc.

Depth -- Again, it is in the eye of the beholder. Kansas fans may think they go ten deep. Kentucky only goes nine deep, unless you count Willis and Hawkins. Well, Willis, for example, scored more points in the KU-UK game last year than Perry Ellis or Jamari Traylor or Svi, or Graham, so maybe he should count as depth.

Height -- I guess if you simply added up all the inches of all the players it'd be close -- Ulis is not tall, for example. Kansas has no one competent with Skal's height -- Carton Bragg is a couple inches shorter. Lee is probably an inch taller than Diallo. Ellis and Poythress are about the same height.
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None of this is in the eye of the beholder. Depth and experience is based upon minutes played and quality players that will play.

Height is height.
 
Experience in college is important for about 1-2 months.

By time March comes around, the world class recruits have plenty of experience. Many of these guys have been playing with elite players, college players and even professional players for years. I mean, just look at the games over the summer. Look at games that took place during unofficial visits.

If Kansas is going to be great, it's not going to be because of Mason, Selden, Ellis, Traylor and Svi. They might contribute, but what they have returning isn't good enough to win it all. It will largely depend on how quickly their top recruits adjust. UK will just have to rely a bit more on this.
 
KA4Prez said:
Experience in college is important for about 1-2 months.

By time March comes around, the world class recruits have plenty of experience. Many of these guys have been playing with elite players, college players and even professional players for years. I mean, just look at the games over the summer. Look at games that took place during unofficial visits.

If Kansas is going to be great, it's not going to be because of Mason, Selden, Ellis, Traylor and Svi. They might contribute, but what they have returning isn't good enough to win it all. It will largely depend on how quickly their top recruits adjust. UK will just have to rely a bit more on this.
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I don't disagree, and I would hope by Feb our guys will be battle tested enough.

This will be a tough OOC game. - At Allen Fieldhouse, revenge game, UK, Calipari, most likely closely ranked and if we are the higher ranked team it will be even more crazy.

Some folks on here believe that this past year's game will be indicative of this year's game. I do not. I fully expect to see KU's best.

I remember losing to the Jayhawks by 55 in 89 and winning by 17 in 1990.

That said, I like our chances.
 
brianpoe said:
I don't disagree, and I would hope by Feb our guys will be battle tested enough.

This will be a tough OOC game. - At Allen Fieldhouse, revenge game, UK, Calipari, most likely closely ranked and if we are the higher ranked team it will be even more crazy.

Some folks on here believe that this past year's game will be indicative of this year's game. I do not. I fully expect to see KU's best.

I remember losing to the Jayhawks by 55 in 89 and winning by 17 in 1990.

That said, I like our chances.
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I don't think anybody really thinks that. I think most are just sick and tired of Kansas Fan constantly running their mouths about UK, especially considering the fact we have owned them historically and recently (23-6, 8>3) and that they routinely choke when it matters in March.

I used to respect Kansas Fan. No more. Screw them. They're every bit as bad as Indiana and Louisville fans these days. If they want to talk ish all the time, I have no problem telling them how it really is.
 
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wcc31 said:
I don't think anybody really thinks that. I think most are just sick and tired of Kansas Fan constantly running their mouths about UK, especially considering the fact we have owned them historically and recently (23-6, 8>3) and that they routinely choke when it matters in March.

I used to respect Kansas Fan. No more. Screw them. They're every bit as bad as Indiana and Louisville fans these days. If they want to talk ish all the time, I have no problem telling them how it really is.
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Many of them have turned quite shitty the last few years. There are still some objectionable fans on their site but the jerks are definitely taking over. Not sure to the point of UL or IU...yet.
 
As I said before, I expect KU to come out with the win since its in Lawrence. Home court is worth 4-5 points in most venues, at the Phog it might be worth 6-7 points. So we probably lose a close one even with a better team.

My problem is KU fans saying that this player or that player is going to be so good or they will be better than one of our guys when based on recent history they have nothing to really base it on.

I respect the KU program, and respect their fans for being optimistic, but when they come over here and start talking about their players vs. our players on our board, then I have to fire back.

They talk about proven players. What have they proven? That they can win the Big 12 and then lose early in the tourney?

No thanks, I'll stick with UK's proven Final Four talent and our unproven yet elite talent that is coming in.
 
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bucsrule8872 said:
As I said before, I expect KU to come out with the win since its in Lawrence. Home court is worth 4-5 points in most venues, at the Phog it might be worth 6-7 points. So we probably lose a close one even with a better team.

My problem is KU fans saying that this player or that player is going to be so good or they will be better than one of our guys when based on recent history they have nothing to really base it on.

I respect the KU program, and respect their fans for being optimistic, but when they come over here and start talking about their players vs. our players on our board, then I have to fire back.

They talk about proven players. What have they proven? That they can win the Big 12 and then lose early in the tourney?

No thanks, I'll stick with UK's proven Final Four talent and our unproven yet elite talent that is coming in.
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This is worth being posted over and over. Kansas fans want to talk crap and have nothing over Cal and UK to spit out about. The game this year is your last chance. It's a huge favor IMO.
 
gossie21 said:
And Mason had 17 games during his freshman year where he scored 3 points or less. I'm not sure I understand the point there. Especially considering Ulis was about the 8th scoring option on a team that won 38 strait games.
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It's harder to be efficient in a larger role than it is in a cameo. We are talking about players who average 12.6 and 5.6 points per game last year. There's a huge difference in usage here. Ullis is a great player and should have taken more minutes from Andrew Harrison last year, but it's not a foregone conclusion that he'll become a focal point of the offense and thrive next year. Bottom line, I look forward to playing you guys next year. I like our chances, but it'll be a close game. Mostly, I like our depth and experience and a big part of that is Frank Mason.
 
Cali-Hawk said:
It's harder to be efficient in a larger role than it is in a cameo. We are talking about players who average 12.6 and 5.6 points per game last year. There's a huge difference in usage here. Ullis is a great player and should have taken more minutes from Andrew Harrison last year, but it's not a foregone conclusion that he'll become a focal point of the offense and thrive next year. Bottom line, I look forward to playing you guys next year. I like our chances, but it'll be a close game. Mostly, I like our depth and experience and a big part of that is Frank Mason.
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I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say. Ulis' game is as efficient as they come. He's a table-setter first, and those guys tend to be a lot more efficient regardless of minutes played because they don't take very many bad shots. But overall the offense benefits because we don't have one guy out there hunting his own shot.

At the end of the day if we're looking at who will average more points, then it very well could be Mason. But I certainly don't think that would make him a better player than Ulis. I'm certainly excited to see our teams face off. It gives me a chance to stare in amazement at Bill Self's hairpiece which is truly remarkable.
 
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gossie21 said:
I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say. Ulis' game is as efficient as they come. He's a table-setter first, and those guys tend to be a lot more efficient regardless of minutes played because they don't take very many bad shots. But overall the offense benefits because we don't have one guy out there hunting his own shot.

At the end of the day if we're looking at who will average more points, then it very well could be Mason. But I certainly don't think that would make him a better player than Ulis. I'm certainly excited to see our teams face off. It gives me a chance to stare in amazement at Bill Self's hairpiece which is truly remarkable.
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Bill Selfs hairpiece is a thing of glory. Reminds me of Clark W. Griswolds father-in-laws' in Christmas Vacation.
 
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i dont know....ku fans just seem desperate to me. feels like they are trying really hard to convince themselves more then us. ku will do fine next year and have another really good big 12 season for sure.
 
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Both teams have a lot to prove. We have a really solid collection of players but it remains to be seen if they will show up when it matters most. I personally don't think we have guys on our team that are going to be considered 'the best' at what they do. At times during the season they may perform at an elite level---but I'm more concerned with having consistent production and finding out if we have a go to guy when the game is on the line. I do think Mason will put up more impressive numbers b/c he will be relied upon more offensively than Ulis---but both will be equally important to the success of their teams. Should be as close of a match-up we've seen bt the two squads at any particular time considering roster balance.
 
bump to laugh at the KU fans who think murray is "unknown" and that they have better guards than murray.

murray is the 2nd youngest player in the pan am games....and is beasting current pros.
 
Mason has really come along. Even KY fans have to admit that, especially after the Korea games.

However, Ulis is very, other-worldly quick, and certainly possesses a more keen court vision than does Mason.

But Ulis had a TON of talent to which to pass last year. Mason had Perry and (fill in the blank) .

Ulis is good. Don't get me wrong. He is very good. But I will take Frank.
 
Trouthound said:
Mason has really come along. Even KY fans have to admit that, especially after the Korea games.

However, Ulis is very, other-worldly quick, and certainly possesses a more keen court vision than does Mason.

But Ulis had a TON of talent to which to pass last year. Mason had Perry and (fill in the blank) .

Ulis is good. Don't get me wrong. He is very good. But I will take Frank.
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i will let anyone take mason all day long. dude is anti-clutch.
 
UK's back court is just better than KU's. I would also take Skal over any of KU's bigs. Poy is the question mark, but at worst he and Ellis cancel each other out.
 
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