To all the critics of the Diallo situation
- Thread starter EvilMD
- Start date
Im not pointing fingers or assigning blame to anyone. I am simply stating facts as the world knows them. You can blame whoever you want. I am all about UK. PERIOD!
Not sure I've seen the evidence to support saying people here support "none and dones" as a continuing thing. Or that people are more fans of Cal than UK. That seems to be an unsupportable claim, based on this one issue. Or are there other examples?
The virtue signaling is hilarious. They eat up all of the coach talk spewed and are lock step with whatever stuff Cal says.
Telling me I should about their financial issues and wanting us to pretend that they're our kids, to call other fans "selfish" for dare caring about a program more so than some evolving door of players who are about to get rich and then watch fans beat their chest over NBA picks being more valuable over tournament success? Good stuff.
That sounds like a very scientific poll of Big Blue Nation you've taken there.
But if you say millions are split down the middle, who is to argue?
I can't wait to read your paper when it's published.
I'm going to get anecdotal here, because that seems to fly for science these days.
I have an extended family member in Western Kentucky, older gentleman who would be known by some on this board, who has hated Cal since day 1. Irrationally hated him.
And this guy is pretty smart. Knows basketball like the back of his hand. Coached for years.
He wasn't even able to let himself enjoy the Title in 2012 because of how much he despises Cal.
So those people are out there. Can't imagine he's the only one. And I am personally positive that him and others like him make their way to boards like this to trash Cal at the hint of trouble.
I don't think everyone who is upset about this situation is like that. But I also don't think most of the fan base cares much at all, or even knows what's going on.
And, in my unscientific opinion, the number of Cal > UK fans we have in this fan base is miniscule.
Me, I cheer for the team we put on the floor. As long as Cal continues to put a quality, competitive product on the floor, I will support his decisions.
He leaves me scratching my head at times too. More than once I've thought that I would have handled a situation differently.
But he's the coach, and his method works incredibly well for him. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I've thought of some tweak that he hasn't.
He sees all the angles, and plays them as he feels best. Like any human being, he sometimes gets it wrong. But his track record is pretty good.
Love the OP, but damn, did we need this thread? This is the 30th "here is my take" thread and, out of the 30, 20 of them already have discussions about the "what if he was your kid" thought.
Can we just deep 96 this one?
I mean, we all know where each one of us stands. We are seeing the same back and forth discussions in this thread that we saw in the other 30.
I know, I know, "hey Jeff, you know, you don't have to click on the thread if you don't like it". Save it.
Can we just deep 96 this one?
I mean, we all know where each one of us stands. We are seeing the same back and forth discussions in this thread that we saw in the other 30.
I know, I know, "hey Jeff, you know, you don't have to click on the thread if you don't like it". Save it.
My sentiments exactly. I used to be a lot more negative and pessimistic. I also used to think I knew what the hell I was talking about with issues like PT, substitutions, recruiting, etc. Finally realized that maybe I don't. Cal's record has been pretty damn good. If not questioning decisions is seen as loving Cal more than UK, so be it.
If our recruits were Kentucky kids I would agree with you. Our players come from all over the country. You probably won't like this but I bet most of them didn't even watch the 2012 championship game.
If you had a uber talented kid who played football and this opportunity came along to play at, say....Nebraska...would your kid owe it to "the great state of Nebraska and its loyal crazy fan base" to play one year before earning millions? No. He wouldn't owe Nebraska anything.
Is there some need to be a smartass on this? You're usually better than that. This board is split pretty evenly. Since it is the only data set we have, it would be a reasonable assumption that the BBN as a whole is split similarly. But who cares really. Even if its 25%, that's a lot of fans who aren't happy.
If he was on the team and physically able to play? Yes, he should play when the coach says to, not when he decides he wants to. That isn't how team sports work, or are we changing the basic function of players and coaches now?
I don't think it's a reasonable assumption. I'm out and about on a daily basis, and I've had little to no discussion about this.
Implying that millions of fans are split on this is hyperbolic, in my opinion.
Doubtless, this has brought out a healthy debate on this site. It's also brought some posters out of the woodwork that we never hear from.
I just don't believe that it's anywhere near as big a deal for the broader fanbase as you make it out to be.
It's not the leaving, if he leaves, I'll be too upset with. Yeah, make the right choice for you. I'll never agree with Cal letting the guy join the team to not play. "Players First" is one thing, but that's a step too far. If you want to come to UK, you play for UK.
I cannot believe that people hear "players first" and don't understand that by saying and practicing that philosophy, that Cal brings in amazing classes each year, gives us a boatload of wins, and puts us in place to make a deep run. Instead, they somehow equate that statement with Cal not caring about championships and not caring about UK. Baffling...
Aike none of my post was directed at you. I agree that in anything in life, you're going to have some unusual positions. That's not what some of these posters are doing.
Just like there are people who don't like Cal at all, there are fans that have turned into Cal super fans and couldn't care less what happens to this program. They hide behind virtue signaling but really what's happened is they've become Cals keeper and have lost sight about everything else. Then they attempt to discredit everyone who has legitimate beef. They can jump off a cliff for all I care. They are the worst.
I could name 20 posters right now that I honestly believe are at the point where they couldn't care less what happens to this program, as long as they win the morality argument in regards to born millionaires. It's becoming a bit disgusting.
I agree with Cal in lots of ways. I get it. But I won't talk down to fans that believe he's off track a little or maybe, maybe, doesn't care about the program as much as he should. Some of them have legitimate reasons to believe what they do. Who are we to tell men who've watched this sport for decades they're evil and pitiful. F that.
Pardon me.
That is totally freaking insane that you feel our basketball program is here for that reason. There is not one single honorable thing that has occurred thus far in this whole Diallo situation.
This is an example of a great post.
This is a huge Cal supporter, a smart guy, and a reasonable poster.
This is exactly what every single UK fan should believe at a bare minimum.
And another thing since I'm ranting. Completely OT.
Does anyone else notice, that the most obtuse Cal super fans NEVER like anyone's post, even if they agree with it. Just pay attention. Never.
To me that goes to their mindset. They are ego maniacs that literally believe they're the brightest and most enlightened in the room. So much so that, well, everyone sucks but them.
Pay attention and you'll see it's a common theme.
Does anyone else notice, that the most obtuse Cal super fans NEVER like anyone's post, even if they agree with it. Just pay attention. Never.
To me that goes to their mindset. They are ego maniacs that literally believe they're the brightest and most enlightened in the room. So much so that, well, everyone sucks but them.
Pay attention and you'll see it's a common theme.
#1 I'm a UK mens basketball fan!
#2 I'm a Coach Cal fan because (IMO) he does the most for me to enjoy #1!
#3 I'm a fan of the UK administration, trustees, donors, fans, etc. because they support #1 and #2.
#2 I'm a Coach Cal fan because (IMO) he does the most for me to enjoy #1!
#3 I'm a fan of the UK administration, trustees, donors, fans, etc. because they support #1 and #2.
Well, virtue signaling - that ain't me.
I like the way Cal operates because we win. I also enjoy watching former Cats in the NBA.
If Cal built the team more along the lines of UNC, or KU, or even UL, I would be fine with that too. A little less talent but they stick around longer and are consistently competitive nationally.
I'm not trying to win a Peace Prize here. I just want to watch my team play good basketball and compete for Titles. The way Cal chooses to do that works well, so I'm supportive.
As far as Cal's concern for the program, I can't draw a conclusion about that until he moves on. IMO, we haven't had a coach who demonstrated great concern for the program since Joe B., so I would love to see that change with Cal.
Here's the thing silents because you don't seem to follow what people are saying about trends.
When Cal first started his system, people would have LAUGHED at the idea that we would be taking in mass amounts of OAD's, recycling rosters yearly to the point where we are just freshman on a constant basis.
I listened to Cal speak about the OAD culture in 2005. People didn't like the idea, and he didn't sell it as an entire "roster" situation, it was sold as an uncommon situation. I rememeber it very well.
If you think for one second that there won't be more players trying this I've got ocean front property to sell ya in Kentucky. The door is open, Cal will take reclassified players, allow them to hide, and go.
If you don't believe it's something that can happen, it just did. Might want to think about that.
The people who discredit slippery slope arguments are usually people who want an agenda pushed that most of the public doesnt want. Its intentional.
Everything that progresses, rightly or wrongly, started at a slippery slope.
Prove to me that this won't happen again, and Cal wouldn't allow it again?
Unsurprisingly, totally wrong.
What people defend is not the system, IT'S THE RESULTS THE SYSTEM PRODUCES. More wins, more NCAA Tourney wins, more FF's than anyone. More of everything except titles. And Cal's not done here yet.
You think there's a better system? Well, objectively, there hasn't been. So it comes off as INCREDIBLY ARROGANT to say that the man responsible for that deserves some kind of heat because of an oddball situation where a top recruit might be able to slide into an NBA contract without ever playing. And incredibly arrogant to think that if Cal spent less focus on UK being the premier producer of NBA talent, UK would still magically get all these great players, but also have a bunch of guys hanging around for 3-4 years. That's Fairy Tale thinking only tangentially connected to the real world
It's clearly not a good thing (except possibly through an indirect, recruiting-related aftereffect) if Diallo skips town without ever doing anything more than playing in UK practices. No one's going to want to see that repeated in the future (probably including Cal). But the practical effect is just another missed recruit, something that happens every single year. Except this time, there's no chance he'll ever play against UK.
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Well, I'm not happy about it but I'm not going to whine about it over and over in 50 threads. It is what it is.
We took a chance on a great player. I'm good with that.
I'm fine with the system. I was responding to a post, not sure who, about fans reactions and justifications.
There are UK fans that don't like our system. They enjoy college players that care about school, getting to know our fans and university, and contributing over years. That's what they like, who the hell are you to tell people that have contributed to this program for generations that they are nuts or wish bad for this program? And that's what you did.
And I say those people tend to be hypocrites. They're very often the same ones whining that Cal has come so close to 2 more titles but fallen short. They like the 31 wins per season and consistent deep runs in March, but think that UK can somehow exempt itself from what high level college basketball really is, and somehow turn back the clock 30 years. Fairy Tale thinking.
Duke is losing a guy who played 11.5 mpg, and another who came off the bench (and a middle-class kid who is EXACTLY the type of guy you would have expected to hang around for 4 years a decade ago). UNC is very possibly losing a guy who played 14.6. UCLA has been losing everyone who's any good pretty much ASAP for years now. Go and check how much Kelly Oubre, Cheick Diallo, Cliff Alexander, and Josh Selby contributed to Kansas. Even Gonzaga is now losing a freshman. And if you want to talk about a school that's thrived without elite prospects, check out Villanova's NCAA Tourney results this decade pretty much every year except 2016.
So I ask those people who hate what Cal does, would you rather reject reality and try to cling to something that doesn't really exist any more (IU fans, stand up), or would you rather be at the forefront of it and enjoy the benefits that come from that position? Maybe there is a middle ground, but I tend to think the grass on that ground is nowhere near as green as many people think it is. Because that middle ground is mostly a Fairy Tale.
The elite programs go after the elite prospects, and work from there. Those elite prospects are nearly 100% interested in getting to the NBA ASAP. That's just how things work now, and it's not likely to change.
Your first position is debatable, as it wasn't really discussed at the time to my knowledge, so there is no point in arguing about that.
About this opening the door for players to try it and Cal being receptive, I disagree. First of all, few even qualify for the situation. Secondly, I don't think it's a situation Cal would think is good for his team. It's basically wasting a scholarship. You can keep your ocean front property thank you.
Sorry if you think my position is naive or whatever. And you are being a little condescending.
except he told everyone when he got here that he's putting players first and promised they will take us where we want to go. four banners later you disapprove? you don't like his system and you want a new coach. no? he told everyone how this was going down day one. you want him fired? didn't think so. go kick pebbles.
That's fine. You're too sensitive though. In no way was any part of my post directed as a personal attack.
I agree that's how things are. But they're not wrong or crazy for not being a fan of the way we operate. And it IS something foreign to 98% of college basketball. Cal is super rare, this isn't common. You can lump statistics together all you want, the last 2 national championship games didn't have elite NBA players or OAD's. It's not like this is the only show in town. So people that don't like the system are not cowards or hypocrites. The few that hate Cal and the system and therefore want Kentucky to fail are the biggest minority we have a system a fanbase. So small it's not worth mentioning. But some of you want to lump all people that show any form of skepticism together inside of a "old" or "crazy" bag. That is what's truly condescending.
Title or bust people are just typical die hard fans that you'll find inside of any fanbase. Actually the more of those the better, even if you choose to treat sports like a biology class. They are the reason for what we are. Unless you think we've owned our conference and the NCAA for generations on the back of apathy and understanding.
My main argument was about the attack toward UK fans who don't think like you, or whoever. Kentucky fans should be reaping praise for how understanding we've been as a fanbase. And when someone believes a certain way about a situation such as this, it should be fair to express it.
I don't think anybody on here hates Cal, you here this every time somebody disagrees with certain topics, who hates Cal. I like the fact that we are bringing in the best talent and winning games but my allegiance always has and will always be to the University of Kentucky first. Kentucky has and will always be a great program no matter who the coach is, another thing some always say is do you want to go back to the Tubby and Billy Gillespie days. I never wanted Gillespie and didn't like him either but was still a Kentucky fan, as for Tubby he represented the program in a good way. He kept the program clean and had class, the last 4 years were not what we wanted and I think a change was needed because recruiting was suffering. The University of Kentucky pays Cal and we want championships, draft picks mean little to me if Diallo doesn't return is this going to start a trend. Everybody has a different opinion and we are not all going to agree, but I don't personally hold it against someone if they don't agree with me.
I didn't say it was an attack. I said you come off as talking down to me, as if I am incapable of understanding the situation. If you didn't mean it that way, I apologize.
Unfortunately, that isn't true. But I will grant you that nobody with any credibility here hates Calipari.
Yep, just because they can play a game well. The jock-sniffing is astounding.
Cal has a lot of posters on here brainwashed. I've been saying it for a while.
I remember back in 2012 the pulse of this board when it came to kids leaving early was "kid should stay and improve and get drafted higher the next season". Hell I remember people on here discussing how MKG needed to come back to improve his shot, and improve his ball-handling.
Cut to present time, we have posters defending every single kid who chooses to leave. They do it through a mask of righteousness of course "kid has to take care of his family", or "he just didn't like school" etc etc. It's amazing. Cal is a helluva salesman.
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