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Titles?...Duke Vs UK

crittel56 said:
If you think that Kentucky wouldn't have been punished by the NCAA for some of the same stuff that has happened at Duke, then you live in La La Land. There's not a chance the NCAA would have looked the other way if the things like Lance Thomas, Cory Maggette, and Chris Duhon's mother had happened here. Also there is zero chance Duval and Bagley would be eligible if they had came to UK. The truth is Duke and UNC are protected by the NCAA, on and off the court , while everyone else gets punished. Heck your screen name even shows what Duke gets away with on the court.
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Laettner was given a technical foul. What was Magloire given for his wrestling move against Wojo? Was he thrown out of the game? Meh... besides, in 1992, Krzyzweski wasn't "Coach K" and Duke wasn't yet "Duke".

Really... where did you guys get this persecution complex? It's truly intriguing. You guys can't be so collectively delusional that you think that other schools that achieve a modicum of UK's success do so by cheating and that UK has been held back from greatness by some shadow conspiracy. I mean... just say that out loud and see if you don't think it sounds nuts.
 
FrankUnderwood said:
Ok, can you honestly sit here and say UK has had anywhere near as favorable a draw in the tourney the last several years? Cmon man...

Also? Bagley , Corey M, lance thomas ....

The constant slurping by media ... literally never any condemning, accusations etc directed towards Duke.

I mean it is what it is, and if you're a Duke fan it's awesome I guess. But a spade is a spade. Trying to act as if Duke isn't the NCAA / medias darling is ridiculous.
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I'm fairly sure that, the year you lost to Wisconsin, we had as hard, if not a harder, draw. Really though... I think the committee puts up matchups that will be profitable. You may draw what conclusions from that that you wish. But, they always want to see Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Kansas in the Final Four. Every single year.

To your other point... do you not think Kentucky gets favorable calls by the refs? Krzyzewski famously called Dean Smith out for getting all the calls. He did. As coaches win more games, they have more clout with the officials. It's just logical dude.
 
TheLaettnerStomp said:
Laettner was given a technical foul. What was Magloire given for his wrestling move against Wojo? Was he thrown out of the game? Meh... besides, in 1992, Krzyzweski wasn't "Coach K" and Duke wasn't yet "Duke".

Really... where did you guys get this persecution complex? It's truly intriguing. You guys can't be so collectively delusional that you think that other schools that achieve a modicum of UK's success do so by cheating and that UK has been held back from greatness by some shadow conspiracy. I mean... just say that out loud and see if you don't think it sounds nuts.
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Give me a break. Wojo should have gotten an Oscar for that performance.

I notice you don't want to address the Maggette and Thomas situations. I don't know about conspiracies but one man's whistle and extremely questionable seedings/matchups do have a major say in our chances for a championship each year.

I know one thing, no one can tell me Higgins hasn't been on the take or severely biased against UK the past few years. You can laugh and call me every name in the book, I don't care, I have two eyes, a brain and a DVR. I know what I saw.
 
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The "complex" came with being fans of a school that wasn't the Duke/UNC darling, coupled with Cal being our coach who every media pundit thought would put us on the death penalty before we hit the 2010s. The NCAA was going to show him for his transgressions and the repulsive 1AD model he apparently invented... By the way of officiating, seeding, hit pieces, Enes Kanter, NBA rumors, halting the press over a 500 win ball, and so on.

I'm not old enough to really recall the Pitino years.. But i do remember the Tubby/BCG years.. And we never had these issues. Things appeared fair to me. But maybe that's cause we were never a real threat to Duke/UNC during those later years.

Also, The stomp was 100% not a basketball move. That's the difference. It wasn't a heat of the moment play or chippiness or a "play on"..
 
Cat78Scot said:
Give me a break. Wojo should have gotten an Oscar for that performance.

I notice you don't want to address the Maggette and Thomas situations. I don't know about conspiracies but one man's whistle and extremely questionable seedings/matchups do have a major say in our chances for a championship each year.

I know one thing, no one can tell me Higgins hasn't been on the take or severely biased against UK the past few years. You can laugh and call me every name in the book, I don't care, I have two eyes, a brain and a DVR. I know what I saw.
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You have an opinion; why would I call you names? I'm on your turf. The least I can do is be respectful.

Maggette? Yeah. Duke had to pay big time for that one. $686,000 or so, I believe. Good thing we didn't win it that year. Thomas was less a big deal.
 
LineSkiCat14 said:
The "complex" came with being fans of a school that wasn't the Duke/UNC darling, coupled with Cal being our coach who every media pundit thought would put us on the death penalty before we hit the 2010s. The NCAA was going to show him for his transgressions and the repulsive 1AD model he apparently invented... By the way of officiating, seeding, hit pieces, Enes Kanter, NBA rumors, halting the press over a 500 win ball, and so on.

I'm not old enough to really recall the Pitino years.. But i do remember the Tubby/BCG years.. And we never had these issues. Things appeared fair to me. But maybe that's cause we were never a real threat to Duke/UNC during those later years.

Also, The stomp was 100% not a basketball move. That's the difference. It wasn't a heat of the moment play or chippiness or a "play on"..
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As to the Stomp? Agreed. It was a show of dominance by a kid who should have known better. It wasn't physically malicious, which was likely why he wasn't booted. Classy? nope. But not a violent stomp, either.

You gotta admit, Calipari had a shady past. Remember him at Memphis? That Rose situation was beyond sketchy. I had plenty of Kentucky friends saying how much they hated Calipari. So, when Tubby, and later Billy G, failed to produce what Kentucky fans expected from Kentucky basketball, it certainly seemed as if Kentucky made a Faustian bargain with Calipari.

Now... as Krzyzewski is reaching his final years, I can empathize with you guys. You had an expectation of excellence and your coaches weren't getting it done. We too shall go through that breaking point when Krzyzewski leaves. I have noted a pretty wide delta between UK fans who think Duke will go into demise and those who think we'll be fine. Personally, I think Duke will go more the UNC/Kansas route than the IU route. We'll have the obligatory Coach K prodigal son, who Krzyzewski might set up to have a great team a la Gutheridge. After, we might have a crap coach like Matt Doherty. But eventually... Duke, like Kentucky, will throw enough money at someone that it'll be worth it. And yes... having the adoring media will be the icing on top.

Anyways... cheers.
 
Aike said:
Love how dookie fans hang out on our board to preach to us. Only on RR. Between them and cateats43gloves...
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Heh... Keanu or Tchaikovsky? You gotta admit, the number of Duke threads over here has to make you question if you showed up to the wrong board.
 
TheLaettnerStomp said:
I'm fairly sure that, the year you lost to Wisconsin, we had as hard, if not a harder, draw. Really though... I think the committee puts up matchups that will be profitable. You may draw what conclusions from that that you wish. But, they always want to see Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Kansas in the Final Four. Every single year.

To your other point... do you not think Kentucky gets favorable calls by the refs? Krzyzewski famously called Dean Smith out for getting all the calls. He did. As coaches win more games, they have more clout with the officials. It's just logical dude.
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Kentucky gets favorable calls? No I don't think that at all as it's not true.

John Higgins ? The UNC game This past year? The Wisconsin game ? Those two off the top of my head.
The unc game was the worst officiated game I've ever seen (I know I know "blame the refs" ...but it's true )

Kentucky in no way shape or form gets favorable calls. Especially not Cal. Yes cal wins a lot, as does K... but only one of them is cozy with the refs and NCAA and that's K and he gets treated like a king.

If anything Cal and UK by default get AWFUL calls solely because it's Cal and UK. Duke and K have a halo on their back, Cal and UK have a bullseye


Also, lol ... "coach K, called out dean smith" ... ummm... so what ? What does that prove ? Also- do you have a link? A quote ? It's a weird/ ridiculous argument (no offense ) regardless but I'd be interested to see it
 
TheLaettnerStomp said:
Heh... Keanu or Tchaikovsky? You gotta admit, the number of Duke threads over here has to make you question if you showed up to the wrong board.
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The immortal Keanu. We have a few neurotic (but lovable) fans who obsess over Duke. Most of this activity comes from baiting trolls and (cough) rival fans.

Our mods let a lot of stuff go.
 
Aike said:
The immortal Keanu. We have a few neurotic (but lovable) fans who obsess over Duke. Most of this activity comes from baiting trolls and (cough) rival fans.

Our mods let a lot of stuff go.
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That's fair. Hilarious Tchaikovsky pic, btw. Again... I'm not trolling, per se. As has been noted, the Duke board is dull. And, who doesn't like a bit of competitive banter? As always, I will remain polite while on foreign soil.

The truth is, both programs are operating at the highest levels of recruiting. I freely admit that Krzyzewski copied Calipari's model of recruiting kids who, for a while, were only being successfully recruited by Calipari. Unlike some Duke fans, I actually respect Calipari. While I think he was kinda shady at Memphis, he doesn't have to be shady at Kentucky.

You all have always had a great program. If anything, I hope Duke can learn from you all as to how to transition from having a legendary coach and how to remain relevant in the post-Krzyzewski era. I too believe that we have to look outside the Krzyzewski coaching tree, as it's a tree that has yielded little fruit outside of Jay Bilas... who just happens to be the smartest guy in the room.
 
The reason Duke will fade Is because of fan support. Coach K and the media do a great job of projecting a huge base when in reality it's very small. A kid wearing a Duke hat in Missouri doesn't move the needle. Coach K has had issues before with fan support and I've been to Cameron when the corners of that small arena were empty. Only to go home and be shocked at how well the espn cameras kept it hidden.

Kentucky is Kentucky because of a massive and demanding fan base. Duke will fade as time goes on and K leaves. You will also see the Duke bandwagoneers move on to their next train.
 
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the simple fact that duke doesn't show up most of the time come tournament time i highly doubt it. I mean the NCAA has given duke a cake walk time and time again and they typically blow it to an 8 or 9 seed in the second round. they will more than likely be the first team to lose to a 16 seed before they win another championship
 
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TheLaettnerStomp said:
I'm fairly sure that, the year you lost to Wisconsin, we had as hard, if not a harder, draw. Really though... I think the committee puts up matchups that will be profitable. You may draw what conclusions from that that you wish. But, they always want to see Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Kansas in the Final Four. Every single year.

To your other point... do you not think Kentucky gets favorable calls by the refs? Krzyzewski famously called Dean Smith out for getting all the calls. He did. As coaches win more games, they have more clout with the officials. It's just logical dude.
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Shit....[roll]



EDIT: 4 of the 5 Power 5 Conference Champs (UK, KU, Zona and Wisconsin), as well as the ACC Tourney Champ (Notre Dame) ALL on one side of the bracket tells me that you're full of shit. Point blank period. Nice try, though.

/end discussion
 
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TheLaettnerStomp said:
As to the Stomp? Agreed. It was a show of dominance by a kid who should have known better. It wasn't physically malicious, which was likely why he wasn't booted. Classy? nope. But not a violent stomp, either.

You gotta admit, Calipari had a shady past. Remember him at Memphis? That Rose situation was beyond sketchy. I had plenty of Kentucky friends saying how much they hated Calipari. So, when Tubby, and later Billy G, failed to produce what Kentucky fans expected from Kentucky basketball, it certainly seemed as if Kentucky made a Faustian bargain with Calipari.

Now... as Krzyzewski is reaching his final years, I can empathize with you guys. You had an expectation of excellence and your coaches weren't getting it done. We too shall go through that breaking point when Krzyzewski leaves. I have noted a pretty wide delta between UK fans who think Duke will go into demise and those who think we'll be fine. Personally, I think Duke will go more the UNC/Kansas route than the IU route. We'll have the obligatory Coach K prodigal son, who Krzyzewski might set up to have a great team a la Gutheridge. After, we might have a crap coach like Matt Doherty. But eventually... Duke, like Kentucky, will throw enough money at someone that it'll be worth it. And yes... having the adoring media will be the icing on top.

Anyways... cheers.
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I'd say it was malicious. You can't step on someone, even if you think it might not hurt. There's no ifs ands or buts.. he should have been tossed.

Let's talk about Cal's past. Do you think he had anything to do with Rose possibly not taking his SAT or Camby taking $30k from a sports agent (in which he paid back)? If so, then that same applies to Coach K with Thomas and Maggette. EIther the coaches know, or they don't. You can't say Coach A should know everytime their kids go to sleep while saying Coach B can't possibly know who their guys talk to.

Honestly, I don't think these coaches can know such things. Handing out blowies on routine recruiting visits? Sure. But knowing if a kid took his SATs or sold some jewelry? Not the coaches problem.

The problem with Calipari isn't those two events. It's during that time he possibly toed the line when it came to recruiting. He might have pushed the boundaries as many coaches have thought/spoke on over the years. That's all out in the open, and I think many UK fans can step back and say "Ok, he might have gone through the mud when he was trying to make a name for himself". Now SINCE the 90's.. and specially being at Kentucky.. 100% clean, by the book. If anything, it's guys like K and Self who have been resorting to unscrupulous tactics.
 
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TheLaettnerStomp said:
Laettner was given a technical foul. What was Magloire given for his wrestling move against Wojo? Was he thrown out of the game? Meh... besides, in 1992, Krzyzweski wasn't "Coach K" and Duke wasn't yet "Duke".

Really... where did you guys get this persecution complex? It's truly intriguing. You guys can't be so collectively delusional that you think that other schools that achieve a modicum of UK's success do so by cheating and that UK has been held back from greatness by some shadow conspiracy. I mean... just say that out loud and see if you don't think it sounds nuts.
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Laettner's stomp was a flagrant, dead ball, foul. By rule, it should have lead to an ejection, not just a technical foul. If it were anybody else, it would have lead to an ejection. As for Magloire, that wasn't even called a foul because it wasn't a foul. It was just more dirty flopping from a Dukie. Wojo should have received a Razzie Award for that horrible acting. You should lose all credibility for falling for it.
 
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TheLaettnerStomp said:
You have an opinion; why would I call you names? I'm on your turf. The least I can do is be respectful.

Maggette? Yeah. Duke had to pay big time for that one. $686,000 or so, I believe. Good thing we didn't win it that year. Thomas was less a big deal.
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Both took impermissible benefits so both should have been ruled ineligible. Same deal as Marcus Camby, except Camby only took $40,000, and Duke gets to keep their banners. You know...because they're Duke. Something similar happened at UK except it was $1000. $685,000 less than what Maggette took. We pretty much got the death penalty for it. But Duke, UNC, and UK all get the same treatment, right? What world are you living in?
 
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All great responses. Maggette took like a total of a few thousand dollars from Piggy. He likely didn't disclose it to Duke. Thomas was another matter but again... likely just grey. I doubt Kentucky would have taken a big hit on it. The $685,000 was what Duke had to pay back in earnings for that season. If we had beat UConn... likely that banner would have gone down.

As I understand it, the rules at the time of the Stomp were murky and it wasn't an automatic ejection. Perhaps Laettner's antics precipitated that change.

Lastly... the name is a joke. Obviously, it gets a chuckle on the Duke board and less than that here. All in good fun, guys!
 
TheLaettnerStomp said:
All great responses. Maggette took like a total of a few thousand dollars from Piggy. He likely didn't disclose it to Duke. Thomas was another matter but again... likely just grey. I doubt Kentucky would have taken a big hit on it. The $685,000 was what Duke had to pay back in earnings for that season. If we had beat UConn... likely that banner would have gone down.

As I understand it, the rules at the time of the Stomp were murky and it wasn't an automatic ejection. Perhaps Laettner's antics precipitated that change.

Lastly... the name is a joke. Obviously, it gets a chuckle on the Duke board and less than that here. All in good fun, guys!
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You don't seem to have a good understanding of the NCAA or at worst you're a Duke athlete who can't pass basic comprehension tcap sections.

STRICT LIABLITY. Look it up. The NCAA applied this to Cal, which means even though he didn't know, he was responsible.

Now try and apply that logic to Duke for a second. You should have a minimum of 2 full stripped seasons, 2 final fours, and a title.

And it's not debatable.
 
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morgousky said:
You don't seem to have a good understanding of the NCAA or at worst you're a Duke athlete who can't pass basic comprehension tcap sections.

STRICT LIABLITY. Look it up. The NCAA applied this to Cal, which means even though he didn't know, he was responsible.

Now try and apply that logic to Duke for a second. You should have a minimum of 2 full stripped seasons, 2 final fours, and a title.

And it's not debatable.
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Everything's debatable.
 
TheLaettnerStomp said:
Everything's debatable.
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No it's really not though.

I gave you facts. It's only debatable because it's Duke and you / the NCAA are fans.

Coach K is a cheater and has no integrity. Duke in 2017 will take anyone, there are literally no standards for Duke basketball players. When K got to Duke, you had to excel in the classroom for a scholarship. UNC and Duke are making an absolute mockery of the student athlete. No wonder Kentucky was barked at so much over the OAD, the real unethical pieces of shit we're on Tobacco Road the whole time. Must be nice to own the media so the only people who know are basketball followers.

Duke basketball is nearly as phony and pathetic as UNC, and that's why in the end Duke won't last.
 
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TheLaettnerStomp said:
Laettner was given a technical foul. What was Magloire given for his wrestling move against Wojo? Was he thrown out of the game? Meh... besides, in 1992, Krzyzweski wasn't "Coach K" and Duke wasn't yet "Duke".

Really... where did you guys get this persecution complex? It's truly intriguing. You guys can't be so collectively delusional that you think that other schools that achieve a modicum of UK's success do so by cheating and that UK has been held back from greatness by some shadow conspiracy. I mean... just say that out loud and see if you don't think it sounds nuts.
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Did you watch the first half of the UK/UNC game in the NCAAT? Even Jay Williams tweeted how bad it was.
 
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TheLaettnerStomp said:
I'm fairly sure that, the year you lost to Wisconsin, we had as hard, if not a harder, draw. Really though... I think the committee puts up matchups that will be profitable. You may draw what conclusions from that that you wish. But, they always want to see Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Kansas in the Final Four. Every single year.

To your other point... do you not think Kentucky gets favorable calls by the refs? Krzyzewski famously called Dean Smith out for getting all the calls. He did. As coaches win more games, they have more clout with the officials. It's just logical dude.
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Yup, they tried really hard last year to get UK, Duke, KU and UNC into the FF. Except they forgot to put UK, UNC and UCLA in different brackets. That was fun.
 
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Talk wins and winning % name 1 school thats considered a basketball school in the SEC (football conf) and those 8 titles only 3 came in modern/hardest era of college basketball meaning a shot clock, 3 point line and 6 rounds of ncaa tournament. All dukes titles have came in that era. Duke has had the best program in college basketball last 30 years.
 
youknowit1 said:
Talk wins and winning % name 1 school thats considered a basketball school in the SEC (football conf) and those 8 titles only 3 came in modern/hardest era of college basketball meaning a shot clock, 3 point line and 6 rounds of ncaa tournament. All dukes titles have came in that era. Duke has had the best program in college basketball last 30 years.
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i hate the "modern era" argument teams that don't have an actual winning tradition or have less titles do this (little brother loves to do this too). this argument is only valid if the college didn't start their basketball program until the modern era. cause you know what, dukes basketball program started 2 years after UK's and they had the same opportunities in every era to win a championship. cherry picking time frames is a losers argument. and if you think the ACC isn't a football conference? seriously outside of duke and unc every school is a football school
 
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morgousky said:
No it's really not though.

I gave you facts. It's only debatable because it's Duke and you / the NCAA are fans.

Coach K is a cheater and has no integrity. Duke in 2017 will take anyone, there are literally no standards for Duke basketball players. When K got to Duke, you had to excel in the classroom for a scholarship. UNC and Duke are making an absolute mockery of the student athlete. No wonder Kentucky was barked at so much over the OAD, the real unethical pieces of shit we're on Tobacco Road the whole time. Must be nice to own the media so the only people who know are basketball followers.

Duke basketball is nearly as phony and pathetic as UNC, and that's why in the end Duke won't last.
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This is priceless. Do go on...
 
TheLaettnerStomp said:
All great responses. Maggette took like a total of a few thousand dollars from Piggy. He likely didn't disclose it to Duke. Thomas was another matter but again... likely just grey. I doubt Kentucky would have taken a big hit on it. The $685,000 was what Duke had to pay back in earnings for that season. If we had beat UConn... likely that banner would have gone down.

As I understand it, the rules at the time of the Stomp were murky and it wasn't an automatic ejection. Perhaps Laettner's antics precipitated that change.

Lastly... the name is a joke. Obviously, it gets a chuckle on the Duke board and less than that here. All in good fun, guys!
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I misunderstood what the $686,000 was for but it doesn't change the fact that those players should have been ineligible. It doesn't matter if anyone at Duke knew they took impermissible benefits. The players were ineligible. Players at other schools have taken less than what Lance Thomas took and the school was punished afterwards. Again you missed where a package sent to Chris Mills with $1000 in it "broke open" in the mail and UK was given the death penalty for it. The rules aren't enforced the same at every school. The past and present show that to be true.
 
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Cowtown Cat said:
Do you have a rebuttal for that? Better yet, do you have a rebuttal to my post(s)?
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Sure. Your points are hyperbolic and ridiculous. It makes you seem like you have a persecution complex. That's what I don't get. I have a few very good friends who studied at Kentucky. We always have fun drinking a few beers... Kentucky Breakfast Stout, FTW... but, I always find this same complex in even them! It's strange. You're the best basketball school on the planet... yes, I as a Duke fan can admit that... and yet, Duke fans seem far less defensive than you guys. I get that the media loves Duke. But, the media also loves Kentucky. Try to look at your program from the outside in. In 1992, you guys weren't even supposed to be in that game, much less win it. And yet... there you were. You've remained relevant long past the Rupp years! Jesus, dude... you're everything Duke aspires to be! So... act like you've been there. Because... you have.
 
TheLaettnerStomp said:
Sure. Your points are hyperbolic and ridiculous. It makes you seem like you have a persecution complex. That's what I don't get. I have a few very good friends who studied at Kentucky. We always have fun drinking a few beers... Kentucky Breakfast Stout, FTW... but, I always find this same complex in even them! It's strange. You're the best basketball school on the planet... yes, I as a Duke fan can admit that... and yet, Duke fans seem far less defensive than you guys. I get that the media loves Duke. But, the media also loves Kentucky. Try to look at your program from the outside in. In 1992, you guys weren't even supposed to be in that game, much less win it. And yet... there you were. You've remained relevant long past the Rupp years! Jesus, dude... you're everything Duke aspires to be! So... act like you've been there. Because... you have.
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The "persecution complex" stems mostly from the ACCESPN issue, and all of their Dukie cheerleaders.

Whether we like it or not, ESPN is the go to source for college basketball coverage. And it's hard to argue against the bias of that coverage, when 2/3 of the analysts on their featured program played for Duke/K.

Doesn't mean ESPN hates UK or doesn't cover UK. Just that UK fans would prefer that the leading voice in the sport were more neutral (or biased in our favor, tbh).

My solution of late has been to watch the SEC Network and guys like Sean Farnham. While Bilas was blathering about Duke deserving a 1 seed, Farnham was touting UK's accolades - on a little channel over here no one was watching.

And that Bilas tirade last March is a prime example of why we hate you guys so much (sorry).

Bilas and his buddies spent all weekend comparing Duke to UNC as justification for Duke getting a 1. Ignoring how the selection process actually works, by the way.

Barely a word was whispered about UK (other than to demean).

Then on Selection Sunday, low and behold, UK was up in the 5 spot the whole time. None of the (incredibly biased) talking heads ever bothered to compare UK's resume to anyone else's. Never crossed their minds.

So persecution complex. I guess. Do you honestly not see how pervasive is the bias?
 
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