Time for coaching change ?
- Thread starter law1127
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One other comment;there is a general apathy about UK baseball now!Under Cohen ,there was much more promotion,fan interest than the current program does to create excitement ,such as party deck,aggressive play,with enthusiasm,etc. Very disappointing with so much potential!!SEC baseball tournament is a big,exciting event,for those that been to it or for the ones that haven't gone!!
I think it probably is time. Anyone got Andy Green's phone number ? He has won a title in Class A and Double A in the minors i
n 2 different leagues. He is a former great at UK, and an LCA graduate. Mitch will be under the gun if this team fails once again to make the NCAA tournament, after getting off to a very good start to the season.
n 2 different leagues. He is a former great at UK, and an LCA graduate. Mitch will be under the gun if this team fails once again to make the NCAA tournament, after getting off to a very good start to the season.
Andy Green would seem to have the background and desire to make UK compete. Somebody that has access to MB ear ought to be pushing that if it has not already happened. He has better credentials than Cohen did. We need to get over the hump and get going on that new baseball stadium. As quaint as the The Cliff is, we need something that is SEC standards.
We needed a new coach about 3 years ago and probably would have had a new one but for the incredible play of Cousino, Littrell, and a handful of others in 2012. As I predicted then, the season was a fluke and not the new standard. Henderson just has no clue in my opinion and was never truly deserving of the head coaching role at UK in the first place.
I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but the UK team was very quiet this weekend. I don't get to watch UK play live very often, but the last time I saw them (several years ago at UT) the dugout was very active and loud. They would hoot and holler and seemed to have a lot of fun. This year you didn't hear too much out of them. There was encouragement and stuff, but just not the same amount of fun I had seen in the past. Just maybe an indication of them not playing loose.
A few fans on the message boards is not enough pressure on Barnhart to fire his buddy. It will take several more years of failure bythis coaching staff before Barnhart acts. There are several things wrong with this team that spells inconsistent play.
Cousineau in the leadoff spot has a total of 6 walks for the season.The left side of the infield has consistently allow unearned runs throughout the season. There are no defined roles for the bullpen guys. How in the world does one of your starters is loss for a good stretch of the SEC season gets a lacerated pitching arm.Henderson appears to put too much pressure on the UK team. How else can you explain 15 runs on Thursday night and the 3 runs in the next two games.
It is time for a change but it won't happen.
Cousineau in the leadoff spot has a total of 6 walks for the season.The left side of the infield has consistently allow unearned runs throughout the season. There are no defined roles for the bullpen guys. How in the world does one of your starters is loss for a good stretch of the SEC season gets a lacerated pitching arm.Henderson appears to put too much pressure on the UK team. How else can you explain 15 runs on Thursday night and the 3 runs in the next two games.
It is time for a change but it won't happen.
That's the apathy I'm talking about,which resembles how the team plays!there is no enthusiasm ,nor interest from the staff ,players or UKAD to motivate the fans!The SEC baseball and NCAA tournaments are fun events ,that have big excited crowds,with intensity of football or basketball venues!Time to demand better!
If we do make the NCAA tournament this year, we will have to win probably 4 of the last 7, and then probably 1 game in the SEC tourney, Hendo will be allowed to stick around. If we fail to make the NCAA field, I think Mitch will pull the plug. Henderson would have made 1 NCAA appearance in his 6 seasons. Cohen went 2 of his last 3 years, 06' and 08', and narrowly missed out in 07'. Hendo needs to get to the dance IMO. Barnhart canned Billy Clyde, and Joker, and they were his hires.
We have had top 25 recruiting classes every year (or almost every year) that Henderson has been here and yet we are just 1 for 6 in NCAA appearances. On top of that, he didn't need to rebuild the program, it was at its peak, and he had plenty of talent to work with when he first started. He should have just hit the ground running.
Could you imagine our basketball team compiling that much talent and not making the NCAA tournament in 5 of 6 years? Heads would roll. Yet, Henderson seems to continue to get a pass, and unfortunately, kids like Reed is really going to miss out on the opportunity to make a deep run and possibly go to Omaha largely because our head coach is inept.
Folks...GH just got a new five yr contract and 1.2 million dollar deal in 2012 for making the ncaa tourney...Don't think you will see a coaching change for at least a couple more years...The southern teams in the sec take baseball SERIOUSLY...Just look at the stadiums they build and the attendance at their games...How many of you realize that KENTUCKY is the ONLY team in the sec to have NEVER made it to the CWS...That tells you all you need to know..
The buyout for a baseball coach is peanuts compared to Football or especially Basketball. With the money UK gets from the SEC, getting rid of Hendo, and bringing in a new HC would be pretty easy to do. Getting the RIGHT HC is the task MB will have to be able to accomplish !
That is baseball...not uncommon at all for small schools to beat the big boys in a weekday game.
I think UKs approach at the plate has improved tremendously since last year...they are a pitcher or 2 away from being really solid.
But hovering around the top 25, playing a top five SOS, top 20 rpi and developing the best player in the country is a nice job at the University of KY.
Tough crowd, although last year I was one of you all because of what I saw in offensively philosophy. That has changed and that makes me happy.
As was stated earlier, this program was in good shape when mama called Cohen home...Henderson has ONE NCAA appearance in 6 years on the job...Anyway you cut that it is not acceptable...all the stats you provided are pretty good, but we ARE NOT making the tourney because each year we start folding at this time of the season...It is a TOTAL shame that the country is not going to get to see the best player in college baseball because of inept coaching...Sorry , but it is time for a change...With that being said, the administration and the big$$$$$ folks need to pony up and upgrade the facilities to be somewhat on par with other sec schools...Hell even Louisville just DOUBLED the seating capacity at their joint and are already talking about expanding again...Totally unacceptable..
The guy has had 6 years to figure this stuff out. Why do we need to give him more time? During those 6 years he has had a top 25 recruiting class, and for several years before he became head coach he had top 25 recruiting classes. So, his teams have not been void of talent. He has had 6 years to put together a complete team. During that 6 years he has maybe done it 1 time. In one year (2009) he actually had Alex Meyers, Chris Rusin, and James Paxton as his starting pitchers, and we hit .297 as a team. Yet our record was a disappointing 28-26, and 11-16 in the SEC. As I have said, the guy hangs his hat on being a pitching coach and yet we have yet to have an outstanding, top 5 of the SEC, pitching staff. We've yet to have an SEC pitcher of the year type player (other than maybe Reed this year).
I agree we have played tough this year and done a pretty solid job, but I have a hard time attributing that to Henderson. We are DEAD LAST in the SEC in fielding percentage but has Henderson done a single thing to help us defensively? We are second to last in the SEC in ERA. Let that one sink in for a moment. Wasn't Hendo supposed to be a pitching guru? Why is it that only UGA is worse than us then?! Hell, but for AJ Reed our hitting wouldn't be that great either, and even it is slipping.
There is just zero way that I can give Henderson more time. He does not deserve it. His success has been minimal at best and with the talent at UK that is unacceptable.
I am not opposed to getting a new coach...I just think that is always thought to be so simple, yet it could have a negative impact to the program as well.
A few of the things you pointed out as the reasons we are struggling have been Henderson's strong suit in the past...and hitting is strong which is usually weak.
He has had 2 of the top 3 fielding % defenses in UK history and we know his pitching has been solid in his career...this year not so much. They play a few guys that bring a nice bat to the lineup but a poor glove. Improve in one aspect and fail in another...it is a tough situation.
I don't get to see enough games to want this guy to stay or go, but I have seen enough to see his teams be well coached defensively in a season, well coached on the mound in a season, and this season they can hit. I have never seen them with everything in one season.
It seems to me that the roster management is a little screwed up due to the draft...he needs to recruit by need for 3 year cycles instead of 4 IMO.
The Tennessee Tech guy would make me a fan though, I love offense.
A few of the things you pointed out as the reasons we are struggling have been Henderson's strong suit in the past...and hitting is strong which is usually weak.
He has had 2 of the top 3 fielding % defenses in UK history and we know his pitching has been solid in his career...this year not so much. They play a few guys that bring a nice bat to the lineup but a poor glove. Improve in one aspect and fail in another...it is a tough situation.
I don't get to see enough games to want this guy to stay or go, but I have seen enough to see his teams be well coached defensively in a season, well coached on the mound in a season, and this season they can hit. I have never seen them with everything in one season.
It seems to me that the roster management is a little screwed up due to the draft...he needs to recruit by need for 3 year cycles instead of 4 IMO.
The Tennessee Tech guy would make me a fan though, I love offense.
Since arriving at UK 11 years ago Henderson has not had a team finish with an ERA below 3.00. This year his team ERA is 4.15. If my count is correct in his 11 years he has had 7 (SEVEN!?) seasons with ERAs above 4.00, and one other season was a 3.95. Several of his seasons were above 5.00, but to be fair, the bats were different then. Still, no excuse for that high. Yet, he is supposed to be an outstanding pitching coach. I'm just not seeing it, and I don't think the stats back him up as being a good pitching coach. His lowest ERA total in his 11 years is a 3.41. That would be good for 9th in the SEC this year. Not exactly jaw dropping by any means. Why is it that teams like South Carolina can get a full bullpen and get an ERA under 3.00 and UK is lucky if they ever break 3.50? Nothing has ever ever indicated to me that his pitching staff has been "solid." In fact, it has been the biggest complaint with him. Starters have been solid and his bullpen has in the past consistently blown games.
You're right about the defense. I will agree with you there. In the past it has been very good, but that does not mean that Henderson cannot and should not change things up this year to help the pitching. You can claim it is to help with the batting, but that doesn't explain it away. Max Kuhn is the worst defensive third baseman in the league. Actually he is the worst defensive player in the entire league with 20 errors. He has, by far, the worst fielding percentage of any player in the league that has played significant innings. Yet, he continues to play third base. On the other side of the diamond we have the best defensive player in the SEC in Thomas Bernal. He has not made an error this season in 334 chances. Bernal, amazingly enough, is touted as a corner infielder meaning that he could play either first or third. Yet, instead of switch Kuhn and Bernal and see if that helps, Henderson just keeps the status quo. Changing their positions would keep both bats in the lineup and possibly cut down on some errors. The other option, which is even better... is to put AJ Reed at first base and move Kuhn to DH and Bernal to third. AJ has one of the better defensive games in the SEC and yet we choose to DH him. I can understand we don't want him injured, but an injury at first base isn't that likely. Worse comes to worse we can DH him during the mid-week games to give him some rest. Has Henderson tried any of this? Hmm... I don't recall him ever doing so. Nope, just keeps Kuhn happy at third.
Next, you have Matt Reida. I like Matt... he can make some great plays, but I don't think he is really cut out to be a short stop. Great short stops can make the throw to first without a ton of effort. Matty has to put it all in to make a strong throw to first. This leads to errors, 13 of them. Tied for 5th highest in the league. Not to mention, that was with several weeks off due to an injury. He would likely have more but for that. Yet, outside of the change for the injury, has Henderson made any changes? Nope. He could try Shelby at SS and Reida at 2nd. He could send in Connor Heady, who hits poorly, but then again Reida is no Babe Ruth. So, there are plenty of options there that Henderson has ignored.
One also wonders why Zach Arnold hasn't played more. He is hitting over .500 in limited plate appearances. Thomas has done well, but teams have figured out that they can steal on him. Could be good for UK to get another catcher some reps just to make sure they are ready for next year. However, Henderson doesn't like to change his infield, only his outfield.
Hitting has typically been just fine. Last year was actually the only year we struggled hitting and that was when we hit .255. Every other year we have hit close to or over .300.
So, if you ask my opinion Henderson teams have largely been well coached at the plate and in the field. Pitching (WHICH HE COACHES) has been the team's weakest link by far. This year, pitching continues to be suspect while fielding has also taken a dive. But for our outstanding hitting early on in the season we would be sunk.
Well you got me with the pitching...but no way do you just switch corner infielders because their bio says they are corners, nor do you switch middle infielders...
Maybe that comes back to recruiting...
When speaking of Bernal, 1st basemen fielding % isn't a good indicator...you get an attempt for every throw to you...and it is so much easier fielding when you can just knock it down and go touch first. (This is coming from an ex 1b, so that is hard for me to say, but it is true.)
Shelby is a solid prospect and great athlete so maybe he could play a little SS...but if he hasn't been repping there for the year then no reason to throw him out there to fail (i'll concede that is a coaching decision at the beginning of the year) If Shelby has been a lifetime 2b, then he wouldn't be ready at SS. ( I would think he would've been SS in HS though.....)
Like I said, I do not get to see enough games to fight for a man's job or call for his firing...my feelings wouldn't be hurt either way...all I really wanted to get across are that I have seen some good things happening as well. Last year I was completely frustrated at the games I went to because their approach at the plate was HORRIBLE.
Maybe that comes back to recruiting...
When speaking of Bernal, 1st basemen fielding % isn't a good indicator...you get an attempt for every throw to you...and it is so much easier fielding when you can just knock it down and go touch first. (This is coming from an ex 1b, so that is hard for me to say, but it is true.)
Shelby is a solid prospect and great athlete so maybe he could play a little SS...but if he hasn't been repping there for the year then no reason to throw him out there to fail (i'll concede that is a coaching decision at the beginning of the year) If Shelby has been a lifetime 2b, then he wouldn't be ready at SS. ( I would think he would've been SS in HS though.....)
Like I said, I do not get to see enough games to fight for a man's job or call for his firing...my feelings wouldn't be hurt either way...all I really wanted to get across are that I have seen some good things happening as well. Last year I was completely frustrated at the games I went to because their approach at the plate was HORRIBLE.
I think this staff has done a great job recruiting, and seems to get the team doing well early in the season, but that's where it ends.
I've not had in faith in Hendo for years, now, as he just doesn't seem to manage the team well. Numerous times a season, he leaves you scratching your head with the way he handles pitchers during the games. There is no reason that his teams should be great in the early season (beating UVa, winning series over USCe, etc) and then tanking EVERY year down the stretch. He's his a plateau, period! He just doesn't have what it takes to get this program to the next level - competing for the SEC (better than 8th - 14th, I'm talking), hosting regular regionals, and sniffing the CWS from time to time.
Time for a change (as it was the past 3 seasons, IMO).
I've not had in faith in Hendo for years, now, as he just doesn't seem to manage the team well. Numerous times a season, he leaves you scratching your head with the way he handles pitchers during the games. There is no reason that his teams should be great in the early season (beating UVa, winning series over USCe, etc) and then tanking EVERY year down the stretch. He's his a plateau, period! He just doesn't have what it takes to get this program to the next level - competing for the SEC (better than 8th - 14th, I'm talking), hosting regular regionals, and sniffing the CWS from time to time.
Time for a change (as it was the past 3 seasons, IMO).
Bernal coming in was touted as being very versatile. He could catch, play 3rd, or 1st. So, he has that ability to play those positions. You can say there is no way we should change it, but he apparently can't do much worse than Kuhn considering that no one in the SEC has done worse than Kuhn. We also have plenty of games where changes can be made without it really hurting us. Games against Morehead or the game next week against Murray. So, we wouldn't have to throw them to the SEC dogs. They could work some mid-week games or even just some later innings at different positions to see if we can improve the left side of our infield.
Shelby has largely played second and that is fine. He might be at home there. However, we also have top prospect Connor Heady waiting in the wings. His play at short was solid and I don't think the drop off with the bat would have been much. Heady had his chance only because Reida's injury.
This season has been strange. We have played top teams tough and lost to crappier teams. I feel like we've been relatively successful, but look at our SEC standings and then my mind is changed. Personally, I agree with UKnVT... Henderson has done all he can. I think he can be loose and fun to play for, but when the end of the season comes near and the team has to have wins his demeanor changes and he becomes uptight. The players sense that and they play uptight. That is why we end up choking in these later series. My problem is that we have had all the tools to have at least one solid team, but for whatever reason we have not once been able to put one on the field. I think last year was the best example of this:
In 2012 we hit .294 and had a team era of 3.41. Very solid and it helped to get us to the NCAA tournament. We lost some good hitters, but I thought we replaced them with some solid talent. Then we returned our best two starting pitchers (Littrell and Gundy), and then our closer (Gott). Plus we returned Aj Reed, Alex Phillips, and Chandler Shepherd (all of whom threw over 50 innings the year before). Plus we added some very nice prospects in Dwyer, Combs, and Cody. It was a year in which I really thought we'd blossom and finally have that complete team. Yet, everything fell apart. The offense went from .294 to .255 and the pitching went from 3.41 to 3.58. The pitching wasn't a huge drop, but I was expecting an outstanding year with such a talented group and almost all of the pitchers actually got worse instead of better (same with the hitting). Even out defense dropped a tiny bit. So, I think if he can't put the pieces together after 6 years as head coach he will never be able to.
The only reason I started this thread,was because it was becoming increasingly frustrating to see UK baseball take one step forward,and two steps back!Just my opinion but Henderson does not seem to be able to inspire his players/team to perform consistently or at their potential!whatever the problem,the last 6 years have just about killed any excitement or momentum that UK baseball had,and the apathy is getting worse! Too bad ,no fan interest or enthusiasm!
Henderson should have been gone 3 years ago. All of what Cohen did has been destroyed. We always win a lot of OOC games early then get pounded in the conference. And obviously, Barnhart is fine with it. Enough talent in this state with a good coach the program should be much stronger.
Why does it take the fans to get in an uproar before Barnhart starts caring. First basketball, then football and now baseball. Why doesn't he do what is best for the program before it drags on and on and the fans finally can't take it anymore?
Remember the uproar over basketball, the fans quit coming to football games? Why does it have to get to that point with him?
Remember the uproar over basketball, the fans quit coming to football games? Why does it have to get to that point with him?
To be fair, that is how it is for almost every athletic director. Fans always get in an uproar before the administration is willing to make a change. Fans are much more impatient than those making the decisions.
A lot of the times a AD is slow to make a change I'd not so much for the current coach but it a "show of faith" to the next coach the AD tries to hire.
i truly believe that this fits both on Joker and Henderson. Joker could have saved his job in that last year but Mitch was more sending the message to the next coach that you will get a fair time to grow your program (between 3 to 5 years).
Henderson was in this same boat, he just was not loosing at the level Joker was. So Henderson got that 4 year and they had a magical rum. This puts Barnhart in a pickle. Hard to let a guy go after the year they had but Henderson only had one year left on his contract. So if you keep him you have to extend his contract or you kill recruiting.
Now we are right back to where we were coming off his first three years. Program is stagnet again and unless they make the NCAA tournament then you have to let him go. In order to make the NCAA you have to make the SEC tourney and that's why I think the team starts to struggle. Henderson seems to choke when the pressure is on and the team feeds off of him, so they struggle.
In today's game, in those late inning situations I saw two moud visits that appeared to me that Reida was doing more "talking" than Henderson was. That's not a good sign.
If the Cats make the SEC tourney then I think Herderson gets next year in a do or die type of year. That's why I was secretly cheering for Auburn today. This year is lost and the players who choose to leave this year is going to make next year terrible.
i truly believe that this fits both on Joker and Henderson. Joker could have saved his job in that last year but Mitch was more sending the message to the next coach that you will get a fair time to grow your program (between 3 to 5 years).
Henderson was in this same boat, he just was not loosing at the level Joker was. So Henderson got that 4 year and they had a magical rum. This puts Barnhart in a pickle. Hard to let a guy go after the year they had but Henderson only had one year left on his contract. So if you keep him you have to extend his contract or you kill recruiting.
Now we are right back to where we were coming off his first three years. Program is stagnet again and unless they make the NCAA tournament then you have to let him go. In order to make the NCAA you have to make the SEC tourney and that's why I think the team starts to struggle. Henderson seems to choke when the pressure is on and the team feeds off of him, so they struggle.
In today's game, in those late inning situations I saw two moud visits that appeared to me that Reida was doing more "talking" than Henderson was. That's not a good sign.
If the Cats make the SEC tourney then I think Herderson gets next year in a do or die type of year. That's why I was secretly cheering for Auburn today. This year is lost and the players who choose to leave this year is going to make next year terrible.
Cats have 30+ wins in 3 straight seasons...first time since 1991-1994.
We were really a nice starting pitcher and another reliever away from a fantastic season.
We were really a nice starting pitcher and another reliever away from a fantastic season.
Color me unimpressed. He can win 30 games 50 years in a row and if he fails to make the SEC or NCAA tournament then those wins basically mean nothing. He isn't here to just win games, but to contend for SEC and CWS titles. He has not done that in his 6 years here.
You can say that we were just a nice starter away from this or a reliever away from that, but it is Henderson's job to recruit and get those guys into our program. Every year he has been here we have had subpar to poor pitching. You cannot just constantly go back to this excuse considering it is his job to recruit and develop these pitchers.
Not making excuses...it is college athletics so you can blame everything that happens on the coach...he recruits the roster.
well I dont think I have enough information to make a really good decision. He lost two of his top pitchers for significant amounts of time this year, that I know about Cody and Shepard. if they make the difference in two games then we are playing for a seed in the SEC. He beat Louisville twice and being in Louisville I know McDonnell can coach and they have a very nice team. I also know one of the pitchers from Morehead that beat them and I think he had a UL offer but got money to play at Morehead. Mid week teams often throw their better pitchers to get quality wins themselves so it is not really a true test. Baseball is a funny game and it is not fair to compare it, especially not college to MLB because of the legnth of seasons. There arent as many dominant teams in college baseball because it takes so many good players to be a really good team during the season and a few injuries make a huge difference. A lot of things need to go really well to win in the SEC. Also aluminum bats often times allow bad hitters to get hot. My general impression is Henderson is too conservative sticks with his guys too long but if I had to make a call Id have to give him another year if he makes the SEC Tournament.
When a coach is under performing and a change is delayed it only sets the program further back. One tournament in six years is defiantly a failure. I am sure Barnhart has a relationship with coach Henderson, but he needs to make the tough call and let him go!
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