The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

[SDC888]

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This has probably long been discussed here, I know it has from other speakers, but here is Kennedy also setting out a history evidently denied by some here.

The discourse is purposefully dumbed down, shallow and overly simplistic, so as to manufacture consent.

Were the conversation honest and sophisticated enough, no one would support this war. It's simply not worth risking World War 3 over whether a section of predominately ethnically Russian and Russian speaking Ukraine is governed by Kiev or Moscow. It is decidedly not in your (average John Q taxpayer) interest to prosecute this war, which will not be won without NATO intervention.

 

[vhcat70]

I respect Zelensky, but he was incredibly dumb and disrespectful in that meeting. He threatens the U.S. with war and said things that make peace even more difficult. If you saw that and thought he wants peace, you’re dreaming.

Well, Vance had no business butting in to make it a 2 on 1 debate.

 

[Mash 2.4]

Well, Vance had no business butting in to make it a 2 on 1 debate.

Yeah. How dare our VP inquire about his plans of pursuing peace while he was there picking up his check.

 

[SDC888]

Vance was right to put Zelenskyy in his place.

That I’d live to see the president of a former Soviet socialist state call the sitting VP a bitch to his face in the White House, never mind that the media and seals would spin a victim narrative for him, is not something I ever would’ve dreamed possible in the before times.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Well, Vance had no business butting in to make it a 2 on 1 debate.

Wrong. And, ridiculous. Vance and Zelensky had spoken prior to the meeting.

 

[Deeeefense]

The problem IMO was this happened during the presser. Frank discussions that sometimes can get loud are necessary so everyone can get their cards on the table but that should happened behind closed doors. Then, respective leaders can answer questions in the presser after everyone has "had their say" in private. The public and the media should be focused on the take away, as to what was agreed to what is left on the table, what was rejected etc, after all the arguing has taken place in private.

 

[vhcat70]

Yeah. How dare our VP inquire about his plans of pursuing peace while he was there picking up his check.

Look, Trump & Z are in charge of their countries, not Vance. If he's going to enter the discussion, Z's wingman should have been able to. Rather unbalanced discussion to me regardless of the merits.

 

[vhcat70]

Wrong. And, ridiculous. Vance and Zelensky had spoken prior to the meeting.

So what. It was a talk between two leaders. Vance isn't one of them.

 

[vhcat70]

Vance was right to put Zelenskyy in his place.

That I’d live to see the president of a former Soviet socialist state call the sitting VP a bitch to his face in the White House, never mind that the media and seals would spin a victim narrative for him, is not something I ever would’ve dreamed possible in the before times.

What's the USSR got to do with this?

Vance was out of line imo - repeating myself. Him putting Z in his place was acting like Trump's bodyguard. He should have asked Trump's permission to speak/step in. Disrespectful of Trump making Trump look small as Trump sat there. Were I Trump, I would have taken Vance to the woodshed afterwards.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

So what. It was a talk between two leaders. Vance isn't one of them.

Yeah, that’s the take away. 🤦‍♂️

 

[WayneDougan]

Rather unbalanced discussion to me regardless of the merits.

Dear God there is no hope for you.

 

[SDC888]

What's the USSR got to do with this?

Indeed. People think we are fighting the USSR to stop the advance of communism, have PTSD from too many movies... so they buy various fearmongering lies about them reconstituting it and marching through Europe.

 

[vhcat70]

Yeah, that’s the take away. 🤦‍♂️

It was a fact till Vance butted in.

 

[vhcat70]

Dear God there is no hope for you.

Rather that than my president being publicly diminished.

 

[wkycatfan]

I don't understand how this became a political issue between Democrats and Republicans. Can anybody think critically about this issue?

 

[LordEggForgotHisPassword]

Why didn’t we go to war over crimea.

I don't understand how this became a political issue between Democrats and Republicans. Can anybody think critically about this issue?

NO. There are fair perspectives that vary, but some of this is pure bullshit that is a masquerade for a different issue altogether.

 

[JumperJack]

I don't understand how this became a political issue between Democrats and Republicans. Can anybody think critically about this issue?

It’s about Trump. Everything is about their personal distaste for him.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I'm convinced rare earth minerals aren't even rare. Every few months we hear about how we find huge deposits of them somewhere. Two months ago it was Wyoming.

Thats a great point and probably true. These things were either worthless or just unknowns until just recently.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

It was a fact till Vance butted in.

If you didn’t listen to the words spoken, I guess you could call it a “talk.”

 

[cbrwalt]

Remember in 2012 when Romney warned us of the dangers of Russia and the media and politicians mocked him. Same thing in 2019 when Trump warned us of Russia

 

[cole854]

Well, Vance had no business butting in to make it a 2 on 1 debate.

Where was the meeting? White House. What country? USA. Their terms or ours? Ours. Who holds the cards? We do.

Don't like it....don't come.

 

[RunninRichie]

Posting here because I know this is a hotbed of men willing to die for Ukraine’s borders. Our estimation of you will skyrocket if you do actually put your money where your mouth is so please, reply to this post when you’ve signed up.

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Let me know when you've signed up for the border patrol, and i'll enlist.

 

[cole854]

I don't understand how this became a political issue between Democrats and Republicans. Can anybody think critically about this issue?

They're liberals. They can't think critically.

Why is it a political issue on them not having an issue with men playing women's sports, or transgenders in women's locker rooms? See above answer.

 

[Bill Cosby]

2 on 1 debate. lol.

Anyone, including Zelensky, who thinks there is a “debate” is mistaken. Zelensky can do what he’s told.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Let me know when you've signed up for the border patrol, and i'll enlist.

Again, dumb analogy.

 

[RunninRichie]

Again, dumb analogy.

Hahahaha

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Hahahaha

The one thing you do well.

 

[JumperJack]

Let me know when you've signed up for the border patrol, and i'll enlist.

The border patrol protects OUR border. I already pay to support OUR border.

The border you’re wanting us to pay for is in Europe.

I would say nice try Richie but it really wasn’t.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

The border patrol protects OUR border. I already pay to support OUR border.

The border you’re wanting us to pay for is in Europe.

I would say nice try Richie but it really wasn’t.

Plus, you do not want to pay to protect Ukraine’s border. RR does. For this to be analogous, RR would have to admit he does not want to pay to protect our border.

 

[Farmy75]

 

[RunninRichie]

The border patrol protects OUR border. I already pay to support OUR border.

The border you’re wanting us to pay for is in Europe.

I would say nice try Richie but it really wasn’t.

But I thought you said, sending financial aid to ukraine isn’t the same as us fighting on the front? Lol, but taxes are?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

 

[bcw1029]

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It would be a more fair and balanced video if they admitted Russia also does the same thing re: kidnappings to the front.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

It would be a more fair and balanced video if they admitted Russia also does the same thing re: kidnappings to the front.

Maybe, but the general narrative is Russia-bad, Ukraine-good. Those videos lack an air of “democracy” worth preserving.

 

[JumperJack]

It would be a more fair and balanced video if they admitted Russia also does the same thing re: kidnappings to the front.

?

What’s that got to do with the U.S.?

 

[Farmy75]

It would be a more fair and balanced video if they admitted Russia also does the same thing re: kidnappings to the front.

its sad it's happening, but draft dodgers are gonna get scooped up in a war for a nations survival.
Bone spurs or not you contribute.

 

[Farmy75]

 

[Farmy75]

a REALLY good read at the link below, the last two sections of the article copy pasted from the article.​

​

TRUCE AND CONSEQUENCES​

The only way to bring Russia into serious negotiations, or to compel it to halt its aggression and accept a de facto cease-fire, would be to present it with severe consequences for continuing the war. Washington has several points of leverage. It can tighten and better enforce sanctions, putting acute pressure on a Russian economy that, despite the Kremlin’s efforts to promote an image of stability, is already under severe strain, with an estimated 40 percent of public spending going to the war. It can increase military pressure by giving Ukraine previously withheld weapons, removing restrictions on their use, and providing enhanced real-time intelligence. Russia has demonstrated an extraordinary tolerance for casualties, making attrition alone an unreliable strategy for forcing a resolution. But historical evidence suggests that battlefield setbacks rather than human losses have been the primary factor shaping Russia’s perception of success or failure.

Ukraine Without America

How Kyiv can persist in the face of a hostile Washington.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Moderator's Note: Please do not copy and paste an entire articles from other sites, which likely violates copywrite. You CAN post a small portion of the article and link to the main article. thanks

 

[Caveman Catfan]

its sad it's happening, but draft dodgers are gonna get scooped up in a war for a nations survival.
Bone spurs or not you contribute.

Yeah, take the poor people and stick them on the front line without much training, UNLESS they can find a way to buy their way out. Sounds completely understandable.

 

[Farmy75]

Yeah, take the poor people and stick them on the front line without much training, UNLESS they can find a way to buy their way out. Sounds completely understandable.

They’ve cracked down on that hard, I’m sure it still happening some.
It’s not excusable, but it’s understandable for a country fighting for its survival.