The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

[SDC8888]

Which is exactly what I was posting then, in that other completely useless, no less moronic thread.

He would take the land he said he would, Ukr would not join NATO, and the talking heads would be parrotting, " yeah, well, it would have been worse if we did nothing!"

It would not have been worse. We just delayed the inevitable, for profit and geopolitical gain, while thousands upon thousands lives were lost, nuntold families ruined for nothing... a war that could've been easily avoided had Ukr, Uerope and the MIC chosen neutrality, diplomacy to end the ukrainian civil war which was ignorantly, foolishly started in 2014.

Now it's just about saving face for all involved. It's disgusting really.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

So Putin wants new elections in Ukraine. What a shock. We're back to the original problem. Either Putin will slowly absorb all of Ukraine, something a lot of you couldn't care less about, or he'll install another puppet so he can pretend to the world that Ukraine is a sovereign country.

 

[Bill Cosby]

For the sake of democracy, we must prevent elections in Ukraine.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I can’t imagine how furious I’d be if I was a Ukrainian who just watched the US voters throw out the people who were pushing my country into a proxy war while funding 90% of the propaganda in my country, then the US losing side who was just thrown out was still doing everything they could to prevent elections in my country.

If the US voters can throw out the establishment and dismantle USAID, I can’t think of a reason we should continue subjecting Ukraine to those evils.

 

[JumperJack]

So Putin wants new elections in Ukraine. What a shock. We're back to the original problem.

The original problem is that our government subverted Ukrainian elections and installed a government that was guaranteed to bring conflict with Russia.

This is a time of truth telling, from Wuhan to USAID to Ukraine. It’s time to face the facts.

 

[WayneDougan]

So Putin wants new elections in Ukraine. What a shock. We're back to the original problem. Either Putin will slowly absorb all of Ukraine, something a lot of you couldn't care less about, or he'll install another puppet so he can pretend to the world that Ukraine is a sovereign country.

Hey, I finally agree with something you said!

 

[kydmb99]

The original problem is that our government subverted Ukrainian elections and installed a government that was guaranteed to bring conflict with Russia.

This is a time of truth telling, from Wuhan to USAID to Ukraine. It’s time to face the facts.

My god how do people become this brainwashed.

 

[kydmb99]

For the sake of democracy, we must prevent elections in Ukraine.

Try, for once, to use the thinking part of your brain: Why do you think RUSSIA wants elections in Ukraine?

Also, do you believe Russia should hold elections before it enters into peace talks?

 

[RunninRichie]

Try, for once, to use the thinking part of your brain: Why do you think RUSSIA wants elections in Ukraine?

Also, do you believe Russia should hold elections before it enters into peace talks?

Don't try to argue with these people. Just cultists, if Trump came out tomorrow, and said we need to support Ukraine. These guys would go "you know, he's got a point".

 

[vhcat70]

So Putin wants new elections in Ukraine.

Net, he always wanted & planned to take all of Ukraine. No worries.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

My god how do people become this brainwashed.

The fun thing, as many on here are incapable of nuance and everything has to be black or white, meaning ppl dont understand more than one thing can be true... also meaning if they do have elections , monitored ones, there will be a refusal to accept the outcome if its not Zekensky, just bc the tired record will play once again. "Everything i don't like is bc of putin"

I know i know, all the chirping parrots can do is coo 'ohhwawa putin puppet putin puppet"

Has nothing to do with supposedly "supporting Russia"

We've already seen it happen

But we don't have anything to do with elections tho.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

So Putin wants new elections in Ukraine. What a shock. We're back to the original problem. Either Putin will slowly absorb all of Ukraine, something a lot of you couldn't care less about, or he'll install another puppet so he can pretend to the world that Ukraine is a sovereign country.

Are negotiations over?

 

[Bill Cosby]

Try, for once, to use the thinking part of your brain: Why do you think RUSSIA wants elections in Ukraine?

Also, do you believe Russia should hold elections before it enters into peace talks?

I’d imagine Russia thinks the Ukrainian people will elect someone who is not a USAID puppet that allows their country to be a pawn in a proxy war fought for the sole purpose of funneling US taxpayer money to politicians.

Are we funneling US tax dollars through Russia pretending we’re “protecting democracy”? If so, we should probably tell them to have elections or the whole “democracy” thing is an obvious lie to convince gullible people there’s a righteous cause, not just politicians stealing taxpayer money.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Net, he always wanted & planned to take all of Ukraine. No worries.

I know

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Are negotiations over?

May as well be.

 

[kydmb99]

I’d imagine Russia thinks the Ukrainian people will elect someone who is not a USAID puppet that allows their country to be a pawn in a proxy war fought for the sole purpose of funneling US taxpayer money to politicians.

Are we funneling US tax dollars through Russia pretending we’re “protecting democracy”? If so, we should probably tell them to have elections or the whole “democracy” thing is an obvious lie to convince gullible people there’s a righteous cause, not just politicians stealing taxpayer money.

Man, Russian propaganda is effective. Especially when it’s parroted by a major American political party.

 

[warrior-cat]

Man, liberal ignorance is astounding especially when USAID audits prove trillions of dollars were used overseas and a lot of it untraceable.

 

[vhcat70]

I know

What's particularly hilarious is that after 3 years the cause of the war from the apologists is natural resources. Never was about being threatened or culture as previously claimed. They're all over the place.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Man, Russian propaganda is effective. Especially when it’s parroted by a major American political party.

lol

Was always a laughable, ignorant talking point. You’ve got to have a single digit IQ to still parrot that line after everything with USAID has been exposed.

 

[SDC888]

NATO membership for Ukraine is unacceptable for Russia, Zakharova said, adding that a simple refusal to accept Ukraine into NATO is also not enough for Russia.

'It is worth noting that a refusal to accept Kyiv into NATO is not enough,' she said. 'The alliance must disavow the Bucharest promises of 2008.'

At a summit in the Romanian capital in 2008, NATO declared that both Ukraine and Georgia would join the US-led defence alliance - but gave them no plan for how to get there.

NATO's official position - which has been consistently endorsed by Sir 🤡Keir Starmer's Government 😯 - is that Kyiv is on an 'irreversible' path to joining the alliance. 🤦‍♂️

Regarding Kyiv's wish to join NATO, Peskov said today that while Ukraine had the 'sovereign right' to join the European Union, Russia was opposed to Kyiv joining NATO.

'With regard to Ukraine joining the EU, it is the sovereign right of any country, but it is completely different when it comes to security issues and military alliances. Here we have a different approach that is well known,' he warned.
...
Sir Keir Starmer told a press conference following the three-hour talks at Elysee Palace that Europe 'had to do more' to protect the continent and reiterated his vow to send British soldiers to Ukraine.

Yet fractures appear to have already formed in any unified response, border with Poland, Spain, and Italy joining Germany in raising doubts about the Prime Minister's suggestion.

Kremlin reveals its price for peace after Ukraine talks with the US

The meeting in Riyadh marks a major step by the Trump administration to reverse US policy on isolating Russia and is meant to pave the way for a meeting between Trump and Putin.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Bill Cosby]

NATO membership for Ukraine is unacceptable for Russia, Zakharova said, adding that a simple refusal to accept Ukraine into NATO is also not enough for Russia.

'It is worth noting that a refusal to accept Kyiv into NATO is not enough,' she said. 'The alliance must disavow the Bucharest promises of 2008.'

At a summit in the Romanian capital in 2008, NATO declared that both Ukraine and Georgia would join the US-led defence alliance - but gave them no plan for how to get there.

NATO's official position - which has been consistently endorsed by Sir 🤡Keir Starmer's Government 😯 - is that Kyiv is on an 'irreversible' path to joining the alliance. 🤦‍♂️

Regarding Kyiv's wish to join NATO, Peskov said today that while Ukraine had the 'sovereign right' to join the European Union, Russia was opposed to Kyiv joining NATO.

'With regard to Ukraine joining the EU, it is the sovereign right of any country, but it is completely different when it comes to security issues and military alliances. Here we have a different approach that is well known,' he warned.
...
Sir Keir Starmer told a press conference following the three-hour talks at Elysee Palace that Europe 'had to do more' to protect the continent and reiterated his vow to send British soldiers to Ukraine.

Yet fractures appear to have already formed in any unified response, border with Poland, Spain, and Italy joining Germany in raising doubts about the Prime Minister's suggestion.

Kremlin reveals its price for peace after Ukraine talks with the US

The meeting in Riyadh marks a major step by the Trump administration to reverse US policy on isolating Russia and is meant to pave the way for a meeting between Trump and Putin.

www.dailymail.co.uk

At this point I think it’s entirely unacceptable for Russia to make any demands for a settlement that do not include Fauci’s extradition.

 

[WayneDougan]

At this point I think it’s entirely unacceptable for Russia to make any demands for a settlement that do not include Fauci’s extradition.

I want Putin to give some land back but require that they hand over Zelensky.

 

[Irish Beck]

So Russia gets land, a ton of natural resources and a promise that Ukraine won't join NATO (after already gutting their nuclear capabilities last time) and Ukraine gets to hand over the remaining 50% of it's minerals to the US, still be extremely susceptible to attack and not participate in the negotiations. No wonder Zelensky said no.

I wish Trump would have sent the Art of the Deal ghost writer instead.

 

[Irish Beck]

I want Putin to give some land back but require that they hand over Zelensky.

What an absolutely shit take (I hope this is a joke).

 

[Bill Cosby]

So Russia gets land, a ton of natural resources and a promise that Ukraine won't join NATO (after already gutting their nuclear capabilities last time) and Ukraine gets to hand over the remaining 50% of it's minerals to the US, still be extremely susceptible to attack and not participate in the negotiations. No wonder Zelensky said no.

I wish Trump would have sent the Art of the Deal ghost writer instead.

We get to stop lighting taxpayer money on fire and get 50% of the natural resources for the money we already spent? Doesn’t seem like that bad of a deal.

 

[SDC888]

Which was always the inevitable result: more money and lost lives changed(s) nothing.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

May as well be.

Time will tell. I have negotiated a lot of deals. Comments at the beginning of negotiations are not predictive of the potential for resolution.

 

[Irish Beck]

We get to stop lighting taxpayer money on fire and get 50% of the natural resources for the money we already spent? Doesn’t seem like that bad of a deal.

You're missing my point. It's a great deal for the US and Russia but a deal Ukraine doesn't have to take.

The EU is going to have to finally get off its ass. Assuming they can help support Ukraine in the absence of the US, this thing will just continue to drag out until Russia wins or quits.

So, no, taking this deal isn't the guaranteed outcome everyone thought it would be.

When the Saudis are questioning why a non party is negotiating peace without one of the participants, you know something is wrong.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

In the beginning of these Ukraine threads, I thought we botched the pre-war “negotiations,” said we should support Ukraine so that Ukraine had leverage toward a resolution of the war, predicted the American public would grow weary of supporting an indefinite war that arguably lacked a real U.S. interest, and said thousands will die without Ukraine having the ability to win. And, here we are.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I'm a bit confused by Trump at this point. When he calls Zelensky a dictator but not Putin, it certainly raises an eyebrow.

 

[Irish Beck]

I'm a bit confused by Trump at this point. When he calls Zelensky a dictator but not Putin, it certainly raises an eyebrow.

He blamed them for the war yesterday, so it isn't surprising that he isn't a fan.

It just feels like bizarro world when you have people advocating for Russias autonomy when they have been an enemy of our state for the entirety of my life.

No one batted an eye about USAID and it's less than 1% budget impact, but now it's the devil. Canada was our staunchest ally until they became rats who abuse our relationship.

The ability to sway opinion so rapidly is disturbing.

 

[Bill Cosby]

You're missing my point. It's a great deal for the US and Russia but a deal Ukraine doesn't have to take.

The EU is going to have to finally get off its ass. Assuming they can help support Ukraine in the absence of the US, this thing will just continue to drag out until Russia wins or quits.

So, no, taking this deal isn't the guaranteed outcome everyone thought it would be.

When the Saudis are questioning why a non party is negotiating peace without one of the participants, you know something is wrong.

We are not a non party. I don’t think Trump or Putin are going to pretend this was ever anything other than a proxy war.

If the EU wants to continue a war in Ukraine after we bail, I don’t really care. We should make it clear we are not going to get involved at that point regardless of NATO commitments.

The people who installed Zelensky and ran the Ukraine news media are no longer in control of the US government.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I'm a bit confused by Trump at this point. When he calls Zelensky a dictator but not Putin, it certainly raises an eyebrow.

The title fits both. Zelensky lacks leverage. Putin does not.

 

[vhcat70]

From another tread:

I don’t know how much clearer I can make it that explaining why someone did something is not justifying why.

If I tell you I’m going to punch you in the face if you post again. Then you post again and I punch you in the face, it will be pretty clear to everyone I punched you because you posted. That doesn’t mean anyone deserves to get punched in the face for posting or that I was justified in my actions. Except sambowieshin.

So you agree that the fact that you punched me is wrong/unjustified 🤪 - same as Putin invading Ukraine. If so, there's no defending in any way what Putin has done to Ukraine. I can't see where you've ever said such nor to go into all the wrongs by Ukraine & all the governments that have supported it. To me, those are sideshows to Russia's actions.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Can't wait for @RunninRichie to tell us the official libertarian party isn't libertarian they're putin apologist bc he's the actual libertarian l. Lolololololol.... too much common sense here that's been said the whole time he can't see bc he views everything in a binary

USA Financing of the War in Ukraine

People. not Politics

www.lpnc.org

 

[warrior-cat]

In the beginning of these Ukraine threads, I thought we botched the pre-war “negotiations,” said we should support Ukraine so that Ukraine had leverage toward a resolution of the war, predicted the American public would grow weary of supporting an indefinite war that arguably lacked a real U.S. interest, and said thousands will die without Ukraine having the ability to win. And, here we are.

We were told in the beginning that this would be over in 3 months. Russia couldn't not win. Then, after that when it did not happen we were told another 6 months or so. Wash, rinse, and repeat as we were sending a ton of money. I don't remember the exact amount, but Zelensky says they don't know where some of that money (billions) went.

Yet some want to question our want to stop giving him money.

 

[Bill Cosby]

From another tread:


So you agree that the fact that you punched me is wrong/unjustified 🤪 - same as Putin invading Ukraine. If so, there's no defending in any way what Putin has done to Ukraine. I can't see where you've ever said such nor to go into all the wrongs by Ukraine & all the governments that have supported it. To me, those are sideshows to Russia's actions.

At this point, as I’ve already explained to you, after seeing what the people who were heading up the US government prior to January 20 were doing at our southern border, funding “N”GOs and drug cartels who have been flooding drugs, crime and human sex slaves into our country, it’s hard to blame anyone for not wanting that on their border. Thankfully we were able to vote it out before they fully destabilized the country by flooding the voter rolls with illegal registrations.

 

[vhcat70]

We were told in the beginning that this would be over in 3 months. Russia couldn't not win.

Perhaps you're right, but I remember people thinking Ukraine would be subjugated to Russia in 1-3 months.

 

[Irish Beck]

If Trump announces that he wants out of NATO, would you support that?

I ask becuase I feel like it's the setup we are getting. Make unreasonable demands, complicate relationships with allies, blame NATO and then leave.

 

[Irish Beck]

Can't wait for @RunninRichie to tell us the official libertarian party isn't libertarian they're putin apologist bc he's the actual libertarian l. Lolololololol.... too much common sense here that's been said the whole time he can't see bc he views everything in a binary

USA Financing of the War in Ukraine

People. not Politics

www.lpnc.org

No offense intended, but an opinion piece that includes the caveat that there could be several libertarians that would disagree with the opinion is hardly a monolith.

All he's saying is that we shouldn't be funding a war we aren't directly involved in for US security. I'd assume a lot of libertarians would agree but hardly anyone would assume all.