The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
Well, it certainly doesn't start at some godawful Hellhole in the middle of God knows where.
Isn’t that a legitimate question…when Russia took crimea in 2014…were they like welp, guess we’ll just sit on our ass and do nothing to be prepared if it’s happens again.
I don’t know, what’s the reason for that?
Can Russia actually go further? They’re supposedly having difficulty taking on Ukraine but they’ll be able to overtake all of Europe and nato where everyone would have to fight? Can Ukraine win this war or are we just prolonging it and adding more death for them using them as mercenaries.
Did we agitate this by pushing nato closer and closer? Would the US be fine if Russia tried to include Mexico in the Warsaw pact?
Not taking a stance…curious of realities here
You aren't getting to get answers anywhere approaching reality from him, just regurgitated narrative.
The reality is this: Ukraine needs people regurgitating that "reality" to you to manufacture your consent. This is an existential fight for them, a civil war which wasn't started by Putin's illegal invasion, but escalated, on e they cannot win without our
That is WW3. That is something which is clearly not in our national interests. That is precisely the kind of foreign entaglments which our founding fathers warned us about.
The pro-war camp here are useful idiots. There was never a chance of Ukrainian victory, only machine to make money and weaken an adversary. They are just being used by us while being bled dry. But keyboard warriors everywhere can feel good about standing up to Putin; rollseyes.
You continually regurgitate a different POV giving a different priority to different aspects of what is happening. To call people idiots because they believe containing Russia is an important aspect of our defense is pathetic. But you easily get terribly agitated because of that different POV. It's not at all necessary.
There is nothing agitating to me about you vh nor the pro-war "argument."
NATO expansion into Ukraine, rightly or wrongly and whether you like it or not, is viewed by RUssia as an existential threat, one which they made abundantly clear they were willing to go to war to prevent. To ignore this reality, as you people do to sustain your "argument," is willful ignorance.
Sounds great, until you realize Ukraine was never getting into NATO until Russia launched its invasion for “denazification. I’m not convinced you aren’t a russian bot.
What? Anyway what about the rest of what I asked. What I asked anyway has nothing to do with how big russias border is. The US Border is huge too...so Mexico in the Warsaw pact. How would we feel about that
Here's "maga" publication vox...lol
How America’s NATO expansion obsession plays into the Ukraine crisis
The post-Cold War debates shaping the current standoff with Russia.
www.vox.com
Well, that's simply an uninformed opinion. Which is not the same as your pro-war opinion, which is disinformed and malinformed.
And that's just ad homnem. Typical of you... and necessary, as I already explained to you. You people cannot make your "argument" without them just like you can't do it without constructing various straw men to attack or other logically fallacious "points."
Your “arguments” are 20 second debunks of Kremlin talking points. For a guy that loves america, you really, really, really love Russia.
Then why was Zelensky talking about joining NATO and the VP of the United States refused to shut down that idea if they were never getting in?
Russia said they invaded to denazify Ukraine in Feb 2022. Weird choice of words if Kamala is what sat it off.
It's the difference between paying attention at the time, and having someoneelse tell you what to think post facto.
You can find proof on whitehouse.gov. Just look at the offical statments made by Baidne and Zelly in their official state meeting in d.c. that fall before the invasion.
Ok. We won’t speculate about what set it off. Point remains, you are wrong in your claim that Ukraine was never getting into NATO. Unless you’re claiming you are more informed than Zelensky and the VP of the United States.
Do you honestly think the US was going to let Ukraine into NATO pre-invasion and it wasn’t just political theatre?
This war is the price of admission.
I told you people that in real time and at the time.
What would the motivation be for that political theater? Other than provoking an invasion?
You didn’t tell anyone shit. You’re not some geo-political genius. You literally use twitter to talk for you. You’re no better than the people you make fun of.
I would wager to say it was to show Russia, the US would stand by Ukraine if they tried to invade. John Mccain literally predicted all of this in 2014. But whatever.
Vladimir Putin said it’s exactly what he’d do. Then he did it. Everyone with a brain predicted it.
Putin and his cronies have said at least 5-10 different things on why they invaded. But in reality, they invaded for Ukraine’s resources and for a warm water port. The rest of this “de-nazification, NATO expansion,”. Is slick dis-information to trick the west to feel sympathy for him while he invades and kills thousands of people, bombs kindergartners, apartments, and concert halls. But, we’ve reached a point in our country where we side with international enemies over the “dems”.
Ok, whatever, again.
None of that is true, again. Of course I did, do, and will continue to do so. No, I'm not making fun of anyone nor claiming any particular genius even any expertise, just that I was paying attention. I say you are useful idiots because you are; it's the technical term.
I’m sure the Kremlin’s troll factories think you’re a useful idiot as well. Seeing as how you parrot all their talking points aimed at people like you.
And you and vh there are again misdirecting, btw, as is yet again, necessary for you. I'm not calling you idiots.
All of this is painfully obvious to anyone who is/was paying attention.
And who told you that? 🤔
That's just more nonsense used on you so things would make snese to you. That's being a useful idiot.
All of this is painfully obvious to anyone who is/was paying attention.
And who told you that? 🤔
That's just more nonsense used on you so things would make snese to you. That's being a useful idiot.
I didn’t say he said that’s why. I said he said he would. We knew that as far back as at least 2008.
That’s why your position that Zelensky and Kamala Harris entertaining NATO membership was “political theater” is nonsense. If it was just “political theater” it’s the most mind numbingly stupid theater ever concocted, as it achieved the exact result everyone knew it would achieve.
You're clearly agitated when you resort to calling people with different viewpoints idiots. Fact.
I'm not advocating Ukraine in NATO, but because Russia perceives something doesn't make it so.
That is not what happened. I called you useful idiots, not idiots.
useful idiot
noun
- Soviet sympathizer in Western countries, from the perspective of the political right.
- One who is seen to unwittingly support a malignant cause through their 'naive' attempts to be a force for good.
You are useful idiots. Your preconceptions are used against you so as to manufacture your consent for a war you would otherwise oppose. You (genreal) are misguided, in other words, not (necessarily) idiots. If I wanted to call you idiotst, I would say so directly. Like, say if you were pro-Palestine protesters on campuses today. They are useful idiots and necessarily idiots too because they not only do not understand what they are truly supporting, they are naive to the consequences.
That's not relevant. They said Ukraine was a red line for them: we called their "bluff."
What does this even mean? It makes no sense at all.
The idea that nato is expanding and poor russia is just cornered is a joke. That's what it means. Look at the Nato vs russia border map I posted. Russia is the biggest country in the world land mass wise.
What on earth are you talking about? No one said Russia was backed into a corner.
How can you people not comprehend this?
Everyone knew Putin viewed NATO expansion as a bright red line. Zelensky and the US government knew it. They still were publicly discussing Ukraine joining NATO. Putin invaded.
That doesn’t mean the invasion was justified.
If you’re happy with war, the public discussion of NATO expansion was perfectly reasonable. If you didn’t think it was going to result in war, you’re a moron.
What 10 Years of U.S. Meddling in Ukraine Have Wrought (Spoiler Alert: Not Democracy)
By Aaron Maté, RealClearInvestigationsApril 30, 2024 In successfully lobbying Congress for an additional $61 billion in Ukraine war funding, an effort that ended this month with celebratory Dem
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