The need for "Dudes" on the roster
- Thread starter DreadLox
- Start date
Maybe there were too many dudes.
Just like three player super teams that routinely fail in the NBA.
Just like three player super teams that routinely fail in the NBA.
Not every argument needs the flaws pointed out. People desperate for engagement will post stupid things because they know others will want to correct them. I'm working on not doing this myself.
I think some ppl are sleeping on this roster a little. Yes, we have a bunch of role players. But, they are elite role players, IMO. And, they are perfect fits for Pope’s system. We may not have the “go-to” guy who can consistently create his own shot, yet. But, we have 6 guys who averaged at least 10 ppg at the D1 level last season & another who was close with 9.3 ppg.
We have 6 SRs, 5 of whom are 5th year SRs. We have 5 guys who shot at least 37% from 3 last season plus 3 incoming FR who can all shoot the lights out. They’re ALL competent passers at the very least. And, they will be playing a style that is built on cutting, ball movement & perimeter shooting. So, they will get all the open looks they can handle.
And, with the quality depth & versatility of this roster, Pope should have plenty of options for every possible scenario. Offense, defense, big, small, etc. With lockdown defenders at all 3 levels, including plenty of rim protection, we should be pretty damn stout defensively, too.
I agree that a dominant scorer, obviously, takes us to another level. It makes us a top 5-10 team, IMO. But, I love what we already have. And, I think we should be a top 15-20 type team as is. I want Lanier &/or Robinson as much as anyone & totally believe that they make us serious contenders. And, I think we get at least one of them.
But, even if we, hypothetically, strike out completely & stand pat going into the season, I really like this group & I think they’re gonna surprise a lot of ppl who are underwhelmed, at the moment. I’ll be honest, I wasn’t thrilled with the Pope hire, initially. But, man, he is absolutely killing it in every phase, IMO, & has already far exceeded my expectations.
We have 6 SRs, 5 of whom are 5th year SRs. We have 5 guys who shot at least 37% from 3 last season plus 3 incoming FR who can all shoot the lights out. They’re ALL competent passers at the very least. And, they will be playing a style that is built on cutting, ball movement & perimeter shooting. So, they will get all the open looks they can handle.
And, with the quality depth & versatility of this roster, Pope should have plenty of options for every possible scenario. Offense, defense, big, small, etc. With lockdown defenders at all 3 levels, including plenty of rim protection, we should be pretty damn stout defensively, too.
I agree that a dominant scorer, obviously, takes us to another level. It makes us a top 5-10 team, IMO. But, I love what we already have. And, I think we should be a top 15-20 type team as is. I want Lanier &/or Robinson as much as anyone & totally believe that they make us serious contenders. And, I think we get at least one of them.
But, even if we, hypothetically, strike out completely & stand pat going into the season, I really like this group & I think they’re gonna surprise a lot of ppl who are underwhelmed, at the moment. I’ll be honest, I wasn’t thrilled with the Pope hire, initially. But, man, he is absolutely killing it in every phase, IMO, & has already far exceeded my expectations.
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... Mission Impossible and Star Trek debuted?
... The first Super Bowl?
... I went with Janice to the Prom?
What I have missed seeing for many years is a TEAM of guys playing for a coach who has them on the same page and everyone is working toward the main goal of winning college basketball. That's what this roster looks like and I love it.
What we've had forever is a collection of individual mercenaries who were told by their "coach" to "figure it out" and by the way were mostly interested in not hurting their draft stock.
What we've had forever is a collection of individual mercenaries who were told by their "coach" to "figure it out" and by the way were mostly interested in not hurting their draft stock.
It's not 1967.
This roster is fine-ish, now. If HCMP doesn't add another very good scorer, this is probably a bubble team.
This team definitely lacks a dude (totally overused term). But it needs a guy it can hand the ball to and go get a bucket. Save me the, that's not HCMP's system. Correct, it isn't. But all teams, regardless of their system or style, need that guy. I'm not sure this team really has one of those.
All that said, I'm not sure either Lanier or Robinson are "that" guy either. I think their value is obviously just ONE MORE GUY that can put the ball in the bucket. As stupid as it sounds, you can't have too many of them.
And before people start talking about last years team and dudes and whatnot...Last years team had one. Rob was that "dude". Damned near all the time. Reed was good, but he wasn't THAT guy. Reeves was good, but that's not his game. This current roster has nothing close to Rob, heck not many do. This paragraph is the case study for why the 23-24 season will always be the most disappointing time of my 40 yr fandom.
This roster is fine-ish, now. If HCMP doesn't add another very good scorer, this is probably a bubble team.
This team definitely lacks a dude (totally overused term). But it needs a guy it can hand the ball to and go get a bucket. Save me the, that's not HCMP's system. Correct, it isn't. But all teams, regardless of their system or style, need that guy. I'm not sure this team really has one of those.
All that said, I'm not sure either Lanier or Robinson are "that" guy either. I think their value is obviously just ONE MORE GUY that can put the ball in the bucket. As stupid as it sounds, you can't have too many of them.
And before people start talking about last years team and dudes and whatnot...Last years team had one. Rob was that "dude". Damned near all the time. Reed was good, but he wasn't THAT guy. Reeves was good, but that's not his game. This current roster has nothing close to Rob, heck not many do. This paragraph is the case study for why the 23-24 season will always be the most disappointing time of my 40 yr fandom.
Rob was that dude last year but I think we’re fine without another “dude” with a real system.
I disagree. And I think most will as well.
The only caveat is, one develops...Assuming HCMP doesn't land one first.
Pope has only reached the tournament twice, yet people are so reliant on him because he has a system.
Rick Barnes removed his name from consideration for the job
He was Jeffrey Lewbowski if anyone on the team was.
For all we know, we have 11 alphas already, zero alphas or somewhere in between. There is no way to truly know and….you may not need any “alphas” in the traditional sense. You could have Carr lead the team in scoring at about 12.5ppg and if the point distribution is equal enough you still may be a top 10 offense.
That’s fine to disagree but I will point to BYU last year being dudeless, way less talent, playing in a better conference.
1967 UK team had a Pat Riley who had slipped a disc the summer of 1966 and was never the player he had been before the damage. He lost his tremendous leaping ability and his shooting % and rebounding took big declines. Getting in and out of his Chevy Impala convertible was painful to watch--he looked like a 70 year old man at times as he "worked" to get out of the car.
The Riley of the 65/66 season was never to be seen again, not at UK and not in the nba.
rr
The Riley of the 65/66 season was never to be seen again, not at UK and not in the nba.
rr
So as a bonfied basketball Benny, I knew Reed Shepperd was gonna be more of a dude than DJ before the season started. Likewise Tyler Herro was one and done. I also knew that SGA's 4star self was far superior to the 5 star Quade Green even before the year began.
Uhhhh, or not. My guess is most folks insisting just one dude lifts us from bubble to contender are not coaching or scouting anywhere significant.
This will be a fun adventure for a change.
Uhhhh, or not. My guess is most folks insisting just one dude lifts us from bubble to contender are not coaching or scouting anywhere significant.
This will be a fun adventure for a change.
I guess the new term is "Dudes".. for good players
I miss the old days, it's all become such a joke.. sigh
I miss the old days, it's all become such a joke.. sigh
And they had like 10 or 12 losses and got bounced in the first round. As an 8 seed.
I'm not sure they had "way less" talent. I think this team does have more talent though. The trick will be seeing how quickly they can figure it all out together. If I'm being completely honest, that might be the most fun part about all of this to me. The roster has turned over just like every freaking season before for the past 15 or so. But this just feels different, in a good way. Not only is it not loaded with freshmen that have to learn how to play at this level, but it's with a coach that is going to focus on the development of the team rather than the individual.
*6 seed- Fixed it for ya.
Insanely less talent. Night and day difference.
And it was the very first year playing in the Big 12 for BYU.
My bad. Still, first round, ya know.
I just disagree. I don't think insanely less. Less? Sure.
I think you, like most, get caught up in "potential". Hell, we've been there for 15 yrs. Bradshaw was supposed to be better than OT. DJ was the second coming of Wall. Blah, blah, blah.
If the roster doesn't move any from where it is now, I think a 6 seed would be an unreal accomplishment. I think everyone needs to pump the brakes on expectations. I love the excitement. Full transparency, I absolutely hated the hire. I'm on board now. I love what HCMP has done so far. The energy, the passion, the excitement...it's all infectious. But I also am fully aware of his 9 yr track record as a head coach.
Still, first year in the Big 12, ya know?
If we don’t have insanely more talent then tell me just one little measly position where BYU had the better player? I’ll wait…
I get caught up in potential. Show me where?
Please, quote one respected person that posts here that has crazy expectations for year 1??? Bet ya can’t?
No one thought DJ was the second coming of Wall. Again, quote one respected person saying so? Again, bet ya can’t?
You can make all the claims you want and have personal opinions, doesn’t make them logical or correct.
Well, I mean, if "respected person" is a caveat...Is that your personal opinion or mine?
Dude, it's a freaking sports message board. It's all opinions. If you view yourself as respected, cool.
Your self-importance level might be slightly higher than mine.
I’m not saying that I’m respected, I am not. I’m saying they are respected people here and you can’t quote 1 of them saying anything that you said. Don’t make claims that you can’t back up, pretty simple.
Point flew right on past you. Who is to say who is respected? That's opinion. And I've read plenty of posts by plenty of posters saying the things I said. Are they respected? Hell no. I don't know any of them. That's kind of my point.
All talk with no proof. Before you engage with me again, come prepared to back up your claims. I don’t have time for silly conversation like this.
Have a nice day and Go Cats!
I’m way too lazy to do the research required. Personal flaw is probably giving too much credit to just any poster. If anything the last five yrs or so has taught me, it’s to be a bit skeptical about what is to come.
What I hate about our exchange is that some probably view my comments as a negative toward HCMP and the work he and his staff have done. I’m really excited about watching this group, and that’s a welcome change.
One could probably successfully argue that every permutation of roster construction routinely fails and almost every dog has had its day at some point.
There is no magic recipe, just a continuum of more to less likely that is always in flux.
What worked like a charm last year can flop this year and work again the next.
Yall gotta stop referencing byu as why we will be fine. That byu team was still a 6 seed. Thats not UK standard. But the bigger point is that if that BYU team had been wearing UK jerseys all year they wouldn’t have even made the tournament. Nobody gets up to play byu, even if they know they’re good. Everyone gives their best shot against UK even during bad years. Thats why I just laugh when people try to use byu being “good” last year with a roster that’s “worse” than ours as why UK will be good.
JMHO but the title of this thread if spun to "this team needs dudes" sums up the narrative that has been built by media (traditional and social) over the past month or so.
I don't agree with it at all. Sure, I'd take another good player but I'm not sure anyone left that we are looking at is the next great hope as an individual contributor.
The guys we are looking at would be good pieces to add to the pieces we have. Maybe they'd be the best piece, maybe they wouldn't. Anyway, I don't think either will make or break the season.
I don't agree with it at all. Sure, I'd take another good player but I'm not sure anyone left that we are looking at is the next great hope as an individual contributor.
The guys we are looking at would be good pieces to add to the pieces we have. Maybe they'd be the best piece, maybe they wouldn't. Anyway, I don't think either will make or break the season.
I think Oweh and Garrison both have the ability to be the "dude" on this team. They have that kind of athletic ability, and both have high ceilings. Surrounded by the shooters this team will have they should be really tough to handle one on one.
