Terry Touchdown and Gunnar Hoak
- Thread starter TuckyFB
- Start date
That basically means that Terry is getting better as he began the spring not getting any first team reps.
As young and inexperienced as the wr corp is gotta believe Terry has great shot. Do not see how we can throw it 40 times a game with these wr.
Seeing practice, Gunnar is far far ahead in the QB battle. Terry struggles to complete passes his accuracy is subpar. Very similar to Stephen Johnson. Gunnar's arm isn't as strong but his accuracy is evident. Don't really understand it, seems as though they have a preconceived notion who they want to start and regardless of the play that is who they are going to start.
No, but you the coaches seem very hesistant to compliment Hoak. Seems as though they don't have confidence in him.
So far I haven't read it that way... .lol....in fact it seemed to me Hoak has been the clear leader....just the way different folk read stuff I guess.
It would SEEM that TW is a stronger version of S. Johnson AND more of a RPO style player while Gunnar leans more to pocket passer. Whether that is true or not someone that has seen the scrimmage would have to say.
Got a bit of time, at any rate.
Probably want both ready, nice to have a change of pace also.
You're the only one to see a practice...so nobody knows;
1. If TW is subpar accuracy passer.
2. If Hoak is as accurate as advertised.
I'll go along with that. Heck, it appears that, last year, the staff thought a less than 100% Johnson offered a better chance of winning than a 100% Barker or Hoak. As I noted in another thread, for reasons I don't really understand, it seems there has not been a "100% returning starter" at QB since Woodson.
Peace
1. I'm lost a bit on the WR being inexperienced or even so many down on them. Not that we've been great at WR...but all we lost was Juice, Walker and Ross. We get Dorian Baker back why probably is an upgrade over Ross at the X. And as much as I love Juice...Bowden could be straight out nasty running middle of field. Epps is the guy we need to make a move for the deep stuff. And don't forget we have CJ back which we need to lean on him more than we've done in past. I think we'll be fine catching the ball.
2. I think the biggest issue with QB is do we want to go back to a non running QB option. It helps Benny a ton to have a legit RPO threat so the DE can't crash down on Benny. If you trot out Hoak, you almost have to take RPO out of playbook as teams will 100% key on Benny and you'll for sure be passing more than Stoops wants to.
2. I think the biggest issue with QB is do we want to go back to a non running QB option. It helps Benny a ton to have a legit RPO threat so the DE can't crash down on Benny. If you trot out Hoak, you almost have to take RPO out of playbook as teams will 100% key on Benny and you'll for sure be passing more than Stoops wants to.
I tend to believe that the Offensive line may have been an issue in this. Pass protection was far behind run blocking.i think Johnson even with a bad leg was more able to slip a tackle or go for positive yards than either Hoak or Barker.I'll go along with that. Heck, it appears that, last year, the staff thought a less than 100% Johnson offered a better chance of winning than a 100% Barker or Hoak. As I noted in another thread, for reasons I don't really understand, it seems there has not been a "100% returning starter" at QB since Woodson.
Peace
Could be wrong....perhaps Johnson was really the only horse able to lead this team.
We find out more in a few months.
I am not down on them but this league has the best corners in the country. We return very little production off a team that averaged under 200 pass yards per game. I love the potential of this group but it is fair to say wr a huge ?????
It's all gotta click. After some of the stuff I read I don't know how much ability Johnson had left to get it to the receivers.
Heck, we seldom managed to get it to our tight ends, and even then they got the dropsies.
One day we are gonna climb that mountain....at least we are out of the one step up and two step back deals.
Heck, we seldom managed to get it to our tight ends, and even then they got the dropsies.
One day we are gonna climb that mountain....at least we are out of the one step up and two step back deals.
Question? Since you have seen Hoak in practice is he fairly mobile and can he run some RPO? I thought he was pretty athletic and moved well?
I think the staff hopes Terry wins the battle but will settle for whomever is actually best. Just like they did last year.
I thought he moved pretty well, he is someone that you have to pay attention to. If not he can pull it and get yardage, comparable to Stephen Johnson. Wilson definitely has the bigger arm but his accuracy looked suspect. I also must admit this is the first time being on the field at this level. However his passing reminded my of Stephen Johnson, only a stronger arm.
I would say most any QB can run the basic RPO. The RPO (not to be confused with the various forms of QB option runs) is simply a quick read by the QB on (usually) a LB. If the LB fills against the run action you pull the ball and hit the TE slant behind the LB. If the LB does not fill quickly the QB hands it off. This is the basic inside RPO. It requires quick decision as the OL is executing run blocking and more than 3 yards downfield on a pass play is a penalty. The main point here is a QB run is not an option.
Now a different type of RPO can be run as an extension of the basic spread option play (or as I prefer to say "backside read" play). If the QB pulls the ball from the RB he continues his track opposite the RB and looks at the coverage to a WR on the side to which he is running (usually a twins type set). He may keep or throw essentially a lateral pass.
Peace
They did not praise either QB today. They split first team reps. Hoak got first series. Not sure what you are talking about.
I'll go along with that. Heck, it appears that, last year, the staff thought a less than 100% Johnson offered a better chance of winning than a 100% Barker or Hoak. As I noted in another thread, for reasons I don't really understand, it seems there has not been a "100% returning starter" at QB since Woodson.
Peace
Wow. You post this same post more than we hear about recruiting rooms.
Now we both know that is not true. I would wager "recruiting room" has been the most posted phrase in the history of this message board. And you know why.
![[winking]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/wink.r191677.gif "Winking [winking]")
True, I have raised the "80% Johnson or 100% Barker/Hoak" question several times and, IIRC, there have been no comments on that "issue". How about you?
And I think it is true that QB has been the primary spring practice personnel/position subject since Woodson.
Peace
I actually think it is pretty obvious. Coaches did not think Hoak was ready as a frosh and Barker just gave up football.Now we both know that is not true. I would wager "recruiting room" has been the most posted phrase in the history of this message board. And you know why.
True, I have raised the "80% Johnson or 100% Barker/Hoak" question several times and, IIRC, there have been no comments on that "issue". How about you?
And I think it is true that QB has been the primary spring practice personnel/position subject since Woodson.
Peace
Many are doubting Gunnar and/or seem like they would rather have Terry. Terry didn't exactly light things up in JUCO and didn't have very good accuracy at all. He had a 54% completion percent in JUCO, which isn't very good, especially considering he was on a running team that everyone stacked the box against. In tape I watched, many of his throws were easy picks in the SEC. Not to mention SJ had much better JUCO stats than Terry (yes different JUCO conferences but still), and SJ wasn't exactly a very good SEC QB, although he had heart most QBs don't have.
I'm in no way cheering against Terry, but I think Gunnar is our best option. Especially if he has the accuracy many speak of. And those talking about wanting an RPO guy....in the spring game Gunnar looked great throwing on the run. And completed some passes on the move that I haven't seen a UK QB complete (consistantly) in some time.
I'm in no way cheering against Terry, but I think Gunnar is our best option. Especially if he has the accuracy many speak of. And those talking about wanting an RPO guy....in the spring game Gunnar looked great throwing on the run. And completed some passes on the move that I haven't seen a UK QB complete (consistantly) in some time.
Now we both know that is not true. I would wager "recruiting room" has been the most posted phrase in the history of this message board. And you know why.
True, I have raised the "80% Johnson or 100% Barker/Hoak" question several times and, IIRC, there have been no comments on that "issue". How about you?
And I think it is true that QB has been the primary spring practice personnel/position subject since Woodson.
Peace
True, but a lot of fans still don't know why. Just the unbelievably blatant symbol of the neglect UK football has endured for decades, which SHOULD have ended as soon as the facts about that miscarriage of justice emerged.
While I love Caveman he isn't close, and there are a lot of reasons why, for one Johnson was only here for two years while the "recruiting room" was actually used for about 15 years-------except by our best recruiter that admitted as soon as he left that he lied to recruits about our facilities.
Easy for him, a Thug U grad.
Then it was also well publicized AND used against us for about half that 15 years, with the picture every competing coach had a copy of. Perhaps a more telling statement about how unconscious mitch was is not being aware that he HAD to spend a few dollars on it (how about the $156,000 he spent to hang some pictures on a wall somewhere, what a bonanza that was to someone------but I think that was just to show the microwave fans who was in charge), surely he must have had an inkling of the unrest it caused among the fans. It was well publicized on here, and I don't believe for a minute that THIS SITE doesn't get a lot of circulation, among prospects and their parents also. Hard to say whether that "oversight" or not seeing that FOOTBALL was the emerging money cow was a bigger mistake on his part.
And now we have the theory that he had the brilliant strategy of RUINING the football program in order to FORCE the fan strike in order to FORCE the recent wholesale spending on football WHICH wouldn't have had ANY of the needed money because of the loss of about TWENTY THOUSAND season ticket holders AND loss of donations by football fans that he caused in large part, rescued by the obscene money the OTHER SEC FOOTBALL programs were responsible for. Now FORTY MILLION a year PLUS bowl money, with selling Commonwealth off another huge bonanza.
A lot of FORCING by a babe thrown in with a pack of wolves that couldn't do anything above the bare minimum for football for over a decade.
Sure, we ended up in a good place, thanks to long time "microwave fans" sacrificing their tickets in the family for generations AND the huge influx of money from OTHER SEC football programs.
Yeah I know, and I get tired of writing about it also, not sure why so many have to insist that mitch is our football hero.
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RPO does not mean QB run game. Look at what Philly did with Wentz/Foles. But, the QB must be able to get the ball out and through the window accurately.
Now we both know that is not true. I would wager "recruiting room" has been the most posted phrase in the history of this message board. And you know why.
True, I have raised the "80% Johnson or 100% Barker/Hoak" question several times and, IIRC, there have been no comments on that "issue". How about you?
And I think it is true that QB has been the primary spring practice personnel/position subject since Woodson.
Peace
How many snaps did Kash D get at LBer last year? Didn’t the staff feel comfortable giving the soph any reps to relieve Love? How could Kash be good if the staff did not trust the second year player to give the MLB a breather?
I know Phil Steele does not keep stats on speculation, but I think you would be recognized for this issue if he did.
Hoak is evidently an accurate passer who does not have great arm strength. Those types of QBs can excel and lead good teams, but they really need to have a master understanding of the offense and be able to read defenses. As a RS frosh it’s not inconceivable to comprehend that a staff would want the calm been-there-before tough as nails leader who is fighting through injuries over the kid who has not had a lot of first string snaps and is not yet a master of the game. Plus, the offense was geared last year for the starter who had skills different from Hoak.
Bottom line, this bait issue is irrelevant. If Hoak is a Mike Hartline type QB who can manage the game and get the ball to Snell, Conrad, Bowden, Baker and others, we won’t look back and ask why he did not take a game snap until the third year of his playing career.
Well we saw what happened when Barker was in, and what happened when an 80% SJ trotted back onto the field. That is not even a questionNow we both know that is not true. I would wager "recruiting room" has been the most posted phrase in the history of this message board. And you know why.
True, I have raised the "80% Johnson or 100% Barker/Hoak" question several times and, IIRC, there have been no comments on that "issue". How about you?
And I think it is true that QB has been the primary spring practice personnel/position subject since Woodson.
Peace
Same here.
I am guessing Wilson is named the starter.
Coaches (in all sports) love, and I mean really love, the better athlete in position battles.
Better athleticism cannot be taught nor coached and in so many cases cannot be game planned against.
Just my take. We shall see.
It's an important point. Baker and Conrad aren't participating this spring, so younger receivers are getting reps. There has already been gossip about Bowden and Ali making more plays. We need 5-6 receivers to play well and be more consistent next fall, or else our passing game won't be dependable. If our passing game isn't dependable, then Wilson has to play. But if Conrad, Baker, Richardson, Bowden, Epps, Ali, Thomas, Dailey come through and make plays in our passing game, then Hoak can be successful. Personally, I think a balanced offense would be the best outcome for our football team so opponents can't move 8 men into the box against Benny.
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Personally, I thought that Hoak was the BEST QB in the last 2 spring games. Showed good accuracy, moved well and threw on the run outside of the pocket, designed or not. I like Hoak a lot and I never quite understood why he didn't get at least a shot/series or two when Steve Johnson went down and Barker was clearly not the answer. Now, that being said, I was very excited about getting Terry Wilson, I looked at him as a bigger, stronger, and faster Steve Johnson. If he can get his accuracy worked out, assuming that is in fact an issue, then I think he gives us the best shot at winning.
Go Cats!
![[cheers]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/5628.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
Go Cats!
I always attend the BWG, and agree with your assessment of Hoak's performance. Looking forward to seeing this year's BWG. Given Wilson's juco stats, I suspect he has a ways to go in terms of decision making in the pocket. But he seems to have a lot of athleticism. 3kidsandme had an important point. We are very short on experienced receivers. If our younger receivers step up and make plays, then Hoak can be very successful. But if our receivers are shaky, then Wilson has to play because of his feet. Our passing game has to be productive, or else we are looking at another season of safeties stacking the box to stop Benny.Personally, I thought that Hoak was the BEST QB in the last 2 spring games. Showed good accuracy, moved well and threw on the run outside of the pocket, designed or not. I like Hoak a lot and I never quite understood why he didn't get at least a shot/series or two when Steve Johnson went down and Barker was clearly not the answer. Now, that being said, I was very excited about getting Terry Wilson, I looked at him as a bigger, stronger, and faster Steve Johnson. If he can get his accuracy worked out, assuming that is in fact an issue, then I think he gives us the best shot at winning.
Go Cats!
Big difference is the OL downfield rule difference: 1 yd in NFL, 3 yds in CFB. Means CFB DB's need to stay with receivers longer thus giving QB's more room/less D speed to run into.
Dorian isn't young. Thomas/Bowden/Ali/Epps all played last year. How much more experience do true talents need? Me, I think not much. It's an athleticism position. You got it or you ain't.
Just look at the heisman winners in the last decade. Tebow, Lamar, Johnny football, RG3, Newton, mariota and mayfield. They all could run the football as good or if not better than they could throw it. The pure pocket passer is slowly dying at the college level.
My biggest worry with Terry is accuracy. I can see (and have heard) that he's a very good athlete, has a big arm and is faster than SJ was. That's all good. If he can't complete the intermediate routes consistently, we're back where we were with SJ, which against SEC teams was not effective. Can you teach accuracy? I don't know. If it's a mechanical/footwork problem, then perhaps. If he's just not ever going to be accurate, then that's a problem. Maybe he's got a few packages installed and is a situational player if so.
My biggest worry about Hoak is arm strength. By all accounts, he's pretty accurate up to 15-18 yards. Maybe that's all we need. There are situations that we need at least a threat of a deep ball, however. Perhaps utilizing routes where the receiver has an opportunity to catch in stride will mitigate the need for a true homerun ball and, if Hoak is truly as accurate as advertised, he should be capable of hitting those throws consistently. As long as he's not a statue in the pocket and, when necessary, he can pick up a first down or two with his legs and move the pocket, I'm not as concerned about him not being a true running QB. We should have a good OL and obviously have at least one really good RB (and I suspect one of the others will step up), I don't think we'll have to rely on the QB run as often. Honestly, I'd rather us throw some swing passes to RB as a run substitute rather than have the QB run if it's Hoak. If he's at least a threat and adequate at picking up a few yards when he does run, that should keep the D honest. IIRC, SJ wasn't the quickest runner as it took him a little time to get up to speed.
Not hearing much/anything about Clark or the other QBs. Guess it's a two-horse race. I wonder if Clark is developing or just has so far to go that he may not ever be a real contributor.
My biggest worry about Hoak is arm strength. By all accounts, he's pretty accurate up to 15-18 yards. Maybe that's all we need. There are situations that we need at least a threat of a deep ball, however. Perhaps utilizing routes where the receiver has an opportunity to catch in stride will mitigate the need for a true homerun ball and, if Hoak is truly as accurate as advertised, he should be capable of hitting those throws consistently. As long as he's not a statue in the pocket and, when necessary, he can pick up a first down or two with his legs and move the pocket, I'm not as concerned about him not being a true running QB. We should have a good OL and obviously have at least one really good RB (and I suspect one of the others will step up), I don't think we'll have to rely on the QB run as often. Honestly, I'd rather us throw some swing passes to RB as a run substitute rather than have the QB run if it's Hoak. If he's at least a threat and adequate at picking up a few yards when he does run, that should keep the D honest. IIRC, SJ wasn't the quickest runner as it took him a little time to get up to speed.
Not hearing much/anything about Clark or the other QBs. Guess it's a two-horse race. I wonder if Clark is developing or just has so far to go that he may not ever be a real contributor.
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