State of 2023 Recruiting
- Thread starter Canned Heat
- Start date
So if we lose out on Bell since him and Barion are so close do you think we might lose brown I sure hope not
Those 3 Stars like Allen and Bunchy and Snell developed, well. But one could just as easily argue that 4/5 Stars as in Young, Jackson, Lynn Bowden, Josh Pascal, Mike Edwards, Darius West (there were 18 of them on the 2018/19 roster) we’re just as critical to getting us to ten wins.
Yes, our staff found some lightly recruited stars, but still had several blue-chippers mixed in who played to their potential.
Yes.
And in those 20+ years we have a losing record in the SEC, and have produced only two modest (5-3) winning seasons in conference, in 2018/19, and 2021/22, leading to nice wins in the Citrus Bowl, a substantial improvement over UK Football since the 50’s.
And even those 10-3 seasons we were likely doing better than our recruiting would have indicated, which has been ranked no worse than the mid-30’s since Stoops’/Marrow’s arrival.
Drop another 15 or 20 slots, and that math/success level becomes harder to sustain.
I will stop following/believing in class rankings the day a modestly ranked recruiting program wins the SEC, or wins a playoff game.
As to the 25 years of BCS and Playoff outcomes, teams below fifty percent Blue-Chippers are Ofer.
Mathematically, the 50% blue-chip winning ratio is actually stronger than has been the NCAA round ball tendency for No. 1 seeds to beat 16 seeds: an upset in the other sport has happened once, but in football no team shy of 50 percent 4 and 5 Star recruits has won a BCS or Play Off game.
Sure, we can all list All-Americans at UK who were modestly ranked, but who also played for teams that were essentially .500 teams. Wesley Woodward and Randall Cobb, and several who played in that era with them are “exceptions to the rule,” regarding recruiting stars.
Unfortunately, the teams they played on were not, as they never ended ranked in the Top 25.
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I agreed with someone, yet rather than argue with them, you go fallacious and argue with me about things I didn't assert. Did you become a tool or simply reply to the wrong post?
I can address all of the fallacies and such in your post later when Ive got free time, but lmk if you were meaning to reply to Rembrandt. Lol
UK trails Michigan for English currently and he's been taking other visits. This has nothing to do with Bell unless English has a great trip and commits. JR says they will only take one more WR
JRs insight is nice to talk about, but he doesn't know how the class or the roster is going to shake out. Coaches don't yet either. I'll guess (and that's all it is) that the coaches will take the best they can get at these positions that they feel can contribute immediately.
We need to show out in these last 2 games and our bowl game. At least in terms of offensive stats. Abandon the ball control clock eating stuff and mix things up well on offense.
@The-Hack is correct. We all enjoy the feel-good story of the 2 or 3 star that develops to become All SEC and NFL player. But ... winning football requires MANY good players. I don’t believe the scouting services are the most accurate. SEC coaches know what they’re doing, hence the reason recruiting services bump a player up if offered by high profile schools.
Bottom line - UK’s roster/ recruiting class needs to be over 50% blue chip players. I’m fine taking a flyer after this happens. I’m fine with taking a transfer who doesn’t meet this criteria as long as their play supports it.
12 team playoff may have sub 50% blue chip ratio, but teams with best rosters will still be in last 4. (Most years) Side note - I’m curious of UT’s current roster makeup. (Too lazy to figure it out myself.) I suspect the #1 team will blowout #4 team again this year because of talent gap.
Now ... I hope the new collective helps Stoops retain and recruit top talent. I don’t question ability to develop players.
Bottom line - UK’s roster/ recruiting class needs to be over 50% blue chip players. I’m fine taking a flyer after this happens. I’m fine with taking a transfer who doesn’t meet this criteria as long as their play supports it.
12 team playoff may have sub 50% blue chip ratio, but teams with best rosters will still be in last 4. (Most years) Side note - I’m curious of UT’s current roster makeup. (Too lazy to figure it out myself.) I suspect the #1 team will blowout #4 team again this year because of talent gap.
Now ... I hope the new collective helps Stoops retain and recruit top talent. I don’t question ability to develop players.
“Did you become a tool or simply reply to the wrong post?”
Now Girthang, one could easily become a tool and reply to the wrong post, (but it is something of a trifecta to be fallacious, whilst transforming into a tool and replying to the wrong post).
Rembrandt wrote me a few books in 2020 and I’ve only half finished them, yet.
So toss me some of that de-fallaciousness!! (But I reserve the right to respond and, hence, prove myself the mostest de-fallaciousness(est), ya’ know.)
Now Girthang, one could easily become a tool and reply to the wrong post, (but it is something of a trifecta to be fallacious, whilst transforming into a tool and replying to the wrong post).
Jesus, don’t threaten me with pissing off Rembrandt (Van Gogh I can handle). . . . at least arguing with you, I get the point quickly . . . .
Rembrandt wrote me a few books in 2020 and I’ve only half finished them, yet.
So toss me some of that de-fallaciousness!! (But I reserve the right to respond and, hence, prove myself the mostest de-fallaciousness(est), ya’ know.)
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The coaches know how many they can only take due to numbers. They have to leave room for a qb, multiple OL, possibly an edge guy, and a rb from the portal. They have immediate needs that aren't going to be met from the guys they can get out of HS. As far as JRs insight, idk who he talks to but they have someone inside that is usually very accurate.
I will add, the comment that UM leads for English is from Michigan insiders. Jr and most others have said he has been very quiet
he may turn out to be a good player, but it seems we have really
gone down to the bottom of the list.
Not too much, still in contact with UGA's staff, but he has been convinced our depth chart is too deep, so I don't think he will hop back on with us, hadn't heard about PSU.
One of the guys who writes for UGA's site just predicted him to return to commitment list, his older brother, a former top 100 edge rusher just entered the portal from ATM. He hasn't played much, but has been injured too. Don't know if they are a package, but wouldn't surprise me if they were.
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Apparently, he may be planning to decommit from Rutgers. He is from FL. Nice size, and can run. If Brad White really wants him, recruiting against ACC teams is almost never an insurmountable problem.
Which just goes to show that our coaches have been very effective evaluators and developers of hs talent, regardless of star ratings.
I don't think many people question Stoops' ability to evaluate and develop talent. The bigger question is, will it require better recruits (and more of them) for UK to break through our current ceiling?
There is zero doubt Stoops wants and needs better recruits. Last year was our best recruiting year in school history and that put us 5th in the SEC. No coach is going to talk bad about his recruits, but you give Stoops "truth serum" and he would admit he's not getting the players he wants this year.
We'll see what happens with transfer portal and if our NIL can get on par with most of SEC.
UK must be in top half of SEC recruiting EACH year to have legitimate chance of winning SEC East. The only outlier is QB. A phenomenal QB can improve many things in college football.
Yes, absolutely yes. Blue chips matter. 3 teams are so loaded, they basically don't have a weakness any other team can expose really outside of 1) playing each other 2) bad weather or sleepwalking.
There are 7-12 other teams who are about 75% better than everyone else outside of the top 3. Most of the time, they have a minor flaw that is exposed in big ways once or twice a year. Generally, they don't have a great QB. Some have average OLs. Could be a segment of their defense just isn't high level. Depending on injuries and such, they drop a few over the course of a season.
The 12 team playoff might get a couple teams in that aren't loaded with blue chips, but they won't be there yearly. It'll require a great schedule, older type team, and for the breaks to go their way.
Kirby, Saban, Day, they aren't geniuses. Any 11 of us here could coach their teams vs the worst in their conference and probably win at the same rate they do. Coaching matters, but you can't polish a turd and call it bowling ball and expect to throw strikes.
Kirby, Saban and Day are and have been the best recruiting head coaches in the college ranks. Recruiting is a skill a head coach has to have. Dan Mullen is considered a top play caller but hated recruiting and didn't put much effort into it, and was fired. Of course you have to develope that talent, look at Jimbo. I just think it's being naive to call a successful coach just a recruiter, and then fire yours because of his poor recruiting, which is exactly what UF did.
Those schools were powers before they came along & will be when they're gone.
I will give Ryan Day...but Bama and UGA were not powers in quite a while before Saban and Kirby came around. I think coaches are crazy value that can't be overestimated.
What about all the “diamonds in the rough” that UK has reached on in that never get on the field. Sure, you can name some underanked guys that panned out, but you convienently leave off all of the unheralded guys they signed that never make the 3-deep.
I don't disagree, but hope there is another level in recruiting that can be reached at some point. There's a reason UGA, Bama, Ohio St., etc. sit atop the polls year in and year out. Will we ever be able to consistently recruit at that level, No. but a year or two here and there if we can pull in a top 10 class maybe we can take that next step as a program.
Firmly believe if UK wants to continue to build they need to sign 12-15 4*s or better per year.
OSU, Ga, Ala were all top tier football programs before current coaches began their tenure. This doesn't negate the importance of good coaching, recruiting, etc ... OSU was struggling before Urban got them back on track. Richt was winning 10 games a year, but couldn't win the biggest games. Ala was really struggling with some bad hires before Saban.
Good coaches make a huge difference. But, great coaches at great programs are a winning combination. It takes both. Clemson is example of program that has good school/coach combination.
Tx AM, Tx, Auburn, USC, and maybe Oklahoma are other examples of top football programs, but may not have the great coach. Sark and Venables deserve some more time before they are labeled failures. Riley already has USC competing for CFP in year 1.
We know historically good programs (basketball or football) can become bad/mediocre teams. Our question is whether a historically bad program can become a consistent top 7-10 program with chance of getting into top 4? I think most younger fans don't realize how bad UK football has historically been before Stoops.
Recruiting is definitely IMPORTANT to climb the proverbial ladder and to stay there. NIL and transfer portal puts
a lot of grease on that ladder for schools like Ky and makes it even more difficult to climb.
UK must get creative and aggressive with NIL. It is not an issue of liking/disliking it. It is a KEY PART of current college football. Let others lobby for how to govern NIL and govern college football. We are WAY behind other schools with NIL and will quickly slide back down to bottom of the ladder!!! This recruiting class (as it currently stands) will not strengthen UK football in the SEC. Stoops knows they need better recruits!
Alabama was good in the early 90's, they were hit hard by probation and had been through multiple coaches, hardly a power when Saban arrived. Richt was good for 7-10 wins a year, hadn't won an SEC Championship in 10 years when he was let go. In fairness his wife won a battle against cancer and Richt announced he had Parkinsons a while back, don't know if he had it while still at UGA but he looked worn out on the sidelines. Day is the only one that followed ato coach. Saban and Kirby took the top off recruiting at both Bama and UGA when they were hired.
1. Bama was top 10 program when Saban arrived....I'll give you that. But they are the #1 program now and it's not really even close that Clemson, UGA, OSU would rival them in past 5 or 10 year periods. Bama had gone thru Dubose, Shula, Franchione, Bill Curry, Ray Perkins and the guy who got fired before he coached a game. The only really good coach in the line was Stallings. So that is a long time of not great football and then Saban gets it goinig and he's probably the best coach we've ever seen.
2. UGA was not top 10 program...more like top 15-20 when Kirby arrived. It was 40 years before the title. Guys like Richt were good but not great IMO and Goff, Donnan, etc... but Kirby arrives and they're a consistent in playoff teams. A hair away from title with Jake Fromm. And to be honest, if not for Saban keeping teams out of SEC title....UGA might have 1-2 more titles under Kirby.
Great coaches just make an amazing difference over good coaches. Sure a guy like Saban needed a good program to show it at highest levels. But the coach makes the program...not the other way around IMO.
Couldn’t agree more
The college game is about coaches, the pro game about players.
The top college coaches also bring in BIG $$$ for the school (not athletic department)
Saban, Kirby, Day worth double to the SCHOOL what they are paid
Bama was 66-55 the 10 years before Saban, they may have had a year or 2 in those 10 years with top 10 programs but at Saban's hiring they weren't.
When a team doesn’t have many4-5* players, then the ones that don’t develop really stand out. The best teams have many 4-5* players that don’t crack rotation. But … they have enough great players that it is a non issue. Ala just had a 5* RB enter portal. He was considered the top RB of his class. No one questions Saban (Ala’s) ability to develop talent. Top rated players not working out happens.
Guys, this isn’t hard to figure out. The teams that recruit the MOST good players beat teams with lesser talent. Sure, there are some upsets along the way, but they’re called “upsets” for a reason.
Look at final 2 teams in CFP and you’ll usually see a major talent gap from rest of teams.
Now, I do think statistics (players who end up in NFL) show there’s a smaller gap between teams ranked 5-25. This is reason for churn in rankings 6-10.
Is Alex Gray a backup plan on the OL? The 6-4 270 OL has offers from Austin Peay and Concord.
This one's a head scratcher. Maybe a PWO but scholarship? One would think he's at least 2-3 years away from contributing as he's undersized as is. This is the ultimate "trust the coaches" deal.
JR called it a backup plan for a center in case they lose keenum. He even he wanted to OV and UK said they would try and figure out a date. They're in no rush to get him there
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