Six NBA Draft choices

[CELTICAT]

Pitino only won one title at UK, and he needed the best college team ever to get over the hump. Shit happens in the big dance, and when you're facing a team that waited all year to play you and they have serious talent too, then you get our final four loss.

I'm not gonna change anybody's mind, but I think we'll experience some addition by subtraction as it relates to guard play.

 

[jrpross]

You guys realize that by the numbers, when you get to the Final 4, you have a 25% chance of winning right? At that point, who is playing the best is more important than who has the most talent.

 

[Kaizer Sosay]

I want to make sure I get this right. My job as a UK fan is to...

1. Be mad when we have a coach who can't recruit but won 1 title in 10 years.
2. Be mad when we have a coach who can't recruit or coach or win a title or stay sober.
3. Be mad at a coach who is a great recruiter and takes us to 4 FF's in his first 6 years at UK including 1 title and 1 runner-up.
4. So I guess I should also be mad at a coach who coached at UK for 41 years and ONLY took us to 6 FF's and ONLY won 4 titles.

So basically I should just be mad at the coach no matter what the situation is, right?

 

[2blue4u]

I've been a big Cal supporter, and still am in a lot of regards. But I'm sorry, when you lose a NC the way he did, with the team he had, and a month later say the season was never about winning a NC, you deserve some criticism.

And if you do criticize Cal on this, it doesn't make you anti-UK or even anti-Cal.

 

[Hoskins91]

I've been a big Cal supporter, and still am in a lot of regards. But I'm sorry, when you lose a NC the way he did, with the team he had, and month later say the season was never about winning a NC, you deserve some criticism.

And if you do criticize Cal on this, it doesn't make you anti-UK or even anti-Cal.

It does when all you ever do is criticize and try to be a contrarian.

 

[2blue4u]

It does when all you ever do is criticize and try to be a contrarian.

If that's all someone has been known to do, then yeah, you're right. But on this point you get a pass in my book.

 

[C1180]

I get from the post in this thread that some think I am anti Calipari. This could not be further from the truth and I am a big fan of Calipari.

I however do not think he is a deity and UKs Messiah like some on this board. He has faults that are open for discussion. I think the UK program has made him as much so as he has made UK better. UK was great before he arrived and they will be great after he leaves. He is a big part of the UK basketball program but he is not the UK basketball program.

He had some good years before he came to UK but nothing like the success he has had since coming to UK. The two have made a good combination but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement by both.

 

[BoulderCat]

He's a good enough coach to get them to 38-0, and to the Final Four, but yea it's kind of amazing a team with 4 lottery picks couldn't beat a Wisconsin team with 1. Cal may have celebrated Thursday night, but I did not. I would have celebrated another national title. I'm happy for those guys, but I'm a UK fan first. They may be millionares, but they will never be NCAA champions.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Six NBA draft choice with 4 being lottery picks and Calipari could not win the NC. I have for year given the rag to Dale Brown because he couldn't win the NC with 3 first round draft choices which included Shaq at LSU and I am going to say I am beginning to wonder about Calipari's bench coaching. There is no doubt he is a great recruiter but there is room for doubt that he is a great bench coach.

He has made some significant mistakes but I believe the greatest is in how he builds a team. He really doesn't. He recruits as many top players as possible then hopes their talent can win. Heaven forbid having some Darius Miller types on the team to build for the future each year. Hawkins and Willis may be able to help pull the wagon next year. We can only hope. Cal is in real danger of being THAT coach with endless talent who just can't win the NC. (Yes I realize he did it once in 6 opportunities ) We used to say that about K. I see we are pretty quiet on that subject these days.

 

[rolaid]

Cal was unfortunate that Wisc was still in tourney. Bad match up with skilled veteran players. Tourney takes luck and great guards who can make plays on there own or set people up.

Again letting Andrew take over game was a mistake . He can't make plays between free throw line and 3' from basket. His horrible 2pt % was a reflection of that.

I will always be convinced if Ullis Aaron Booker Lyles Karl are in last 6 minutes we close it out. WCS was a waste of time in that game.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

You guys realize that by the numbers, when you get to the Final 4, you have a 25% chance of winning right? At that point, who is playing the best is more important than who has the most talent.

You do realize that Cal has only won 16.7% of his opportunities in the final four. How would you describe that?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

A r

So then you just made up that completely arbitrary standard, which basically no one meets, and apply it only to Cal? That's what I thought.

A ridiculous statement as usual. You're a writer, correct? Cal has more talent than anyone yet is second to last in winning a NC when he reaches a final four. Minimum 6 appearances.

 

[brianpoe]

A r


A ridiculous statement as usual. You're a writer, correct? Cal has more talent than anyone yet is second to last in winning a NC when he reaches a final four. Minimum 6 appearances.

How many coaches have been to 6 final fours?

 

[Aike]

You do realize that Cal has only won 16.7% of his opportunities in the final four. How would you describe that?

I would describe that as a hater, gleefully seeking out stats to support his criticism of a championship coach. If that's your angle, you'll always find something.

I prefer to look at it like this...

2 of those 4 UK Final Four teams weren't supposed to get there. I had the best time watching us play in the 2011 and 2014 tourneys. I'm not going to criticize the coach for falling short on those miraculous runs.

By all rights, we should have bowed out to Ohio St. and Wichita St. Then Cal would be 1 for 4 in Final Fours. Would you like that better?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

How many coaches have been to 6 final fours?

8

Cal has the second lowest NC winning % of that group.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I would describe that as a hater, gleefully seeking out stats to support his criticism of a championship coach. If that's your angle, you'll always find something.

I prefer to look at it like this...

2 of those 4 UK Final Four teams weren't supposed to get there. I had the best time watching us play in the 2011 and 2014 tourneys. I'm not going to criticize the coach for falling short on those miraculous runs.

By all rights, we should have bowed out to Ohio St. and Wichita St. Then Cal would be 1 for 4 in Final Fours. Would you like that better?

I am a UK fan. I bow to no one. Yes we were great in those years but again, if frogs had wings. Cal is great at getting to the final four. He is bad at sealing the deal. The facts are what they are.

 

[Blueaz]

I am a UK fan. I bow to no one. Yes we were great in those years but again, if frogs had wings. Cal is great at getting to the final four. He is bad at sealing the deal. The facts are what they are.

not a hater?...you stated you disagree with Cals' basketball philosophies, building and coaching. that is kinda hating. Not that you are not entitled to your opinion, but you arguments would find much more support elsewhere. Maybe, you just love the attention you get by being a contrarian on this board.

 

[Aike]

I am a UK fan. I bow to no one. Yes we were great in those years but again, if frogs had wings. Cal is great at getting to the final four. He is bad at sealing the deal. The facts are what they are.

You are a hater, and you aren't fooling anybody.

 

[brianpoe]

8

Cal has the second lowest NC winning % of that group.

Ok, so lets get Wooden and Rupp out for obvious reasons.

K has been great, but he started out losing his first four.


Dean smith won one more than Cal and went 11 times!

Smith 2-11

Pitino 2-7

Roy 2-7

Crum 2-6

Cal 1-6

Izzo 1-7


So if Cal wins his just one more he is immediately in second place and has succeeded at 3 different schools!


You saying he is next to last while only being ONE game out shows what an agenda you are driving. I thought you were an intelligent poster but the more you put out there the more you show your real colors.

 

[Blueaz]

Ok, so lets get Wooden and Rupp out for obvious reasons.

K has been great, but he started out losing his first four.


Dean smith won one more than Cal and went 11 times!

Smith 2-7

Pitino 2-7

Roy 2-7

Crum 2-6

Cal 1-6

Izzo 1-7


So if Cal wins his just one more he is immediately in second place and has succeeded at 3 different schools!


You saying he is next to last while only being ONE game out shows what an agenda you are driving. I though you were an intelligent poster but the more you put out there the more you show your real colors.

You sir, are on fire...

 

[C1180]

I realize that winning the NC is hard but with the players Cal has had and getting to the final four and elite eight as many times as he has IMO he should have sealed the deal at least one more time. Heck losing to WVU with the talent on that team is just unexplainable.

I think it just shows you can not just out talent other teams and that a good coach can home in on your weaknesses and beat you even if you have him out talented. I think as another poster has said UK most times is very talented but they are not always balanced in that talent. This gives a good strategist coach a chance to hone in and exploit those weaknesses and Calipari does not always have the answer. Another thing is those teams that have beaten UK in the elite 8 and final fours have been mostly experienced teams that had a lot of veteran players that were well versed in their coaches systems that he count on running his systems as he planned without a lot of free lancing.

 

[brianpoe]

I realize that winning the NC is hard but with the players Cal has had and getting to the final four and elite eight as many times as he has IMO he should have sealed the deal at least one more time. Heck losing to WVU with the talent on that team is just unexplainable.

I think it just shows you can not just out talent other teams and that a good coach can home in on your weaknesses and beat you even if you have him out talented. I think as another poster has said UK most times is very talented but they are not always balanced in that talent. This gives a good strategist coach a chance to hone in and exploit those weaknesses and Calipari does not always have the answer. Another thing is those teams that have beaten UK in the elite 8 and final fours have been mostly experienced teams that had a lot of veteran players that were well versed in their coaches systems that he count on running his systems as he planned without a lot of free lancing.

Ok, I can dig that.

But let's not pretend that Cal does not know how to put a roster together.

Or that Cal's personal goal's for his players cost us championships.

Or that any words he may use post season had any effect on the team's success, especially after 38-0.

The guy could have called a timeout in 2010 and stopped the 3 point barrage of misses. He could have called a timeout last game and fixed that offensive set at the end of the game. Those are certainly debatable. Players could always play better.

Whining about what he says at a corporate function and the draft where he is on TV with recruits watching has ZERO to do with our results. Other than obtaining the best players, which some still bitch about because they are too good and we need lesser talent????? WTF

 

[C1180]

Ok, so lets get Wooden and Rupp out for obvious reasons.

K has been great, but he started out losing his first four.


Dean smith won one more than Cal and went 11 times!

Smith 2-11

Pitino 2-7

Roy 2-7

Crum 2-6

Cal 1-6

Izzo 1-7


So if Cal wins his just one more he is immediately in second place and has succeeded at 3 different schools!


You saying he is next to last while only being ONE game out shows what an agenda you are driving. I thought you were an intelligent poster but the more you put out there the more you show your real colors.

If I had to compare Calipari to the coaches you have listed it would be to Dean Smith. Smith always had a lot of talent but had a poor percentage of sealing the deal.

I think I would also add Donavan and the Past UConn coach to your group of coaches. I can not think of his name and I do not feel like looking it up.

Nobody IMO expect that a coach should win the NCAA every time they make the final four but IMO I do not think expecting them to win 25% is too high of an expectation.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

not a hater?...you stated you disagree with Cals' basketball philosophies, building and coaching. that is kinda hating. Not that you are not entitled to your opinion, but you arguments would find much more support elsewhere. Maybe, you just love the attention you get by being a contrarian on this board.

Good grief, now if you disagree with someone you're a hater? Do you need a rainbow flag?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Ok, so lets get Wooden and Rupp out for obvious reasons.

K has been great, but he started out losing his first four.


Dean smith won one more than Cal and went 11 times!

Smith 2-11

Pitino 2-7

Roy 2-7

Crum 2-6

Cal 1-6

Izzo 1-7


So if Cal wins his just one more he is immediately in second place and has succeeded at 3 different schools!


You saying he is next to last while only being ONE game out shows what an agenda you are driving. I thought you were an intelligent poster but the more you put out there the more you show your real colors.

Why are they out of the conversation?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Ok, so lets get Wooden and Rupp out for obvious reasons.

K has been great, but he started out losing his first four.


Dean smith won one more than Cal and went 11 times!

Smith 2-11

Pitino 2-7

Roy 2-7

Crum 2-6

Cal 1-6

Izzo 1-7


So if Cal wins his just one more he is immediately in second place and has succeeded at 3 different schools!


You saying he is next to last while only being ONE game out shows what an agenda you are driving. I thought you were an intelligent poster but the more you put out there the more you show your real colors.

My only agenda is UK winning a NC. Your agenda is to defend Cal at all cost.

 

[brianpoe]

Why are they out of the conversation?

Rupp won his last championship in 1958, you think that is relevant?

Wooden had Sam Gilbert and only had to play the weak west to get to championship games, totally different tournament set up.

Why would you even have to ask that question?

 

[jrpross]

Ok, so lets get Wooden and Rupp out for obvious reasons.

K has been great, but he started out losing his first four.


Dean smith won one more than Cal and went 11 times!

Smith 2-11

Pitino 2-7

Roy 2-7

Crum 2-6

Cal 1-6

Izzo 1-7


So if Cal wins his just one more he is immediately in second place and has succeeded at 3 different schools!


You saying he is next to last while only being ONE game out shows what an agenda you are driving. I thought you were an intelligent poster but the more you put out there the more you show your real colors.

Thank you sir. I was going to do some research and put together a response myself but you did the legwork for me. Nicely said. He apparently is blaming missed free throws in the Memphis game on Cal too.

 

[brianpoe]

My only agenda is UK winning a NC. Your agenda is to defend Cal at all cost.

You think making the final four almost every year does not give you the best chance to win a NC? Or recruiting the best players, as you have said is a mistake? Please tell us how you would do better?

 

[jrpross]

My only agenda is UK winning a NC. Your agenda is to defend Cal at all cost.

Ah. So we should fire him and bring in.....whom exactly? You have someone in mind to give us a better chance at a championship?

 

[C1180]

I love all of the great young talent that Calipari has brought to UK but getting players to the NBA and winning a lot of regular season games is never what it is about at UK. UK is about winning National Championships. I have loved the ride that Calipari has had at UK but just wish he could close the deal a little more often. Just maybe it will have to be more about having some players that stay at UK long enough to get some experience. A balance of say half one and doners and half multiple year players and giving those multiyear players a chance to develop at the expense of maybe a little of those one and dones playing time. The one championship that Calipari has won there was a decent mixture of one and doners and multi year players.

Right now however it is very difficult for UK to get those second tier players because they do not want to come to UK and for sure sit behind those one and doners. Calipai will need to show that he will give them an honest shot at playing if they deserve to do so.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

You do realize that Cal has only won 16.7% of his opportunities in the final four. How would you describe that?

 

[KYFOSSIL]

He has 4 final fours in 6 years at UK. Of those four times he has either the won it or been the runner up 50% of the time. You can also say every third year he has taken the cats to the title game. He also coached a team that had only 1 loss after winning 38 straight, See how numbers can be presented in the light that meets a particular agenda.

 

[Aike]

I love all of the great young talent that Calipari has brought to UK but getting players to the NBA and winning a lot of regular season games is never what it is about at UK. UK is about winning National Championships. I have loved the ride that Calipari has had at UK but just wish he could close the deal a little more often. Just maybe it will have to be more about having some players that stay at UK long enough to get some experience. A balance of say half one and doners and half multiple year players and giving those multiyear players a chance to develop at the expense of maybe a little of those one and dones playing time. The one championship that Calipari has won there was a decent mixture of one and doners and multi year players.

Right now however it is very difficult for UK to get those second tier players because they do not want to come to UK and for sure sit behind those one and doners. Calipai will need to show that he will give them an honest shot at playing if they deserve to do so.

UK is about winning National Championships. Which is why in my 41 years on this earth we've won exactly 4. That's a little better then 9% of the time.

Why, that percentage is even worse that Cal's percentage of sealing the deal once he gets to the Final Four!

Where is the outrage?

 

[KYFOSSIL]

I love all of the great young talent that Calipari has brought to UK but getting players to the NBA and winning a lot of regular season games is never what it is about at UK. UK is about winning National Championships. I have loved the ride that Calipari has had at UK but just wish he could close the deal a little more often. Just maybe it will have to be more about having some players that stay at UK long enough to get some experience. A balance of say half one and doners and half multiple year players and giving those multiyear players a chance to develop at the expense of maybe a little of those one and dones playing time. The one championship that Calipari has won there was a decent mixture of one and doners and multi year players.

Right now however it is very difficult for UK to get those second tier players because they do not want to come to UK and for sure sit behind those one and doners. Calipai will need to show that he will give them an honest shot at playing if they deserve to do so.

UK is second in NCs and 1st all time in wins. Cal has significantly contributed to both. We have the most all around glorious history in college basketball but only have 8 NCs. UK, nor is any other team, all about NCs.

 

[Blueaz]

Good grief, now if you disagree with someone you're a hater? Do you need a rainbow flag?

Once again those are YOUR WORDS. Own up or shut up. All you do is deflect

 

[brianpoe]

I love all of the great young talent that Calipari has brought to UK but getting players to the NBA and winning a lot of regular season games is never what it is about at UK. UK is about winning National Championships. I have loved the ride that Calipari has had at UK but just wish he could close the deal a little more often. Just maybe it will have to be more about having some players that stay at UK long enough to get some experience. A balance of say half one and doners and half multiple year players and giving those multiyear players a chance to develop at the expense of maybe a little of those one and dones playing time. The one championship that Calipari has won there was a decent mixture of one and doners and multi year players.

Right now however it is very difficult for UK to get those second tier players because they do not want to come to UK and for sure sit behind those one and doners. Calipai will need to show that he will give them an honest shot at playing if they deserve to do so.

Once again please view this link:

http://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/the-myth-of-cal-only-recruiting-oads.102321/

17 kids recruited who were expected to be multi year players. Your facts are off base.

 

[Xception]

The real issue is the fans , some desperately need a title to make their life enjoyable . They may have friends or coworkers talking ish to them , it could be the opposite and they wanted to talk ish to friends or coworkers . It's likely that they are miserable with how their lives have turned out and rely on the success of UK as an escape from reality , if that doesn't culminate in a first place finish then there's a year without being a winner on any front .

Some could have lost money on a bet they shouldn't have made . Lastly is the troll who applies a title or bust standard for UK while not doing the same for the team/coach they are too embarrassed to admit they're a fan of . No matter what the profile is , they had to have a title and anything short of that was a failure .

 

[Kaizer Sosay]

Whole lot of trolling going on in this thread. Either that or clueless ignorance. Take your pick.

 

[ukcatsfan2]

You guys realize that by the numbers, when you get to the Final 4, you have a 25% chance of winning right? At that point, who is playing the best is more important than who has the most talent.

No, you have a 33% chance of winning at the final four level.

Your only going to play one team from the other half of the bracket