It's almost like I didn't say Cal isn't responsible for the 5 star busts either. Just read the parts you want to read.
Shai: "Cal changed the course of my career"
- Thread starter thedahc
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It's almost like I didn't say Cal isn't responsible for the 5 star busts either. Just read the parts you want to read.
But you did change the argument to Cal made him an all star when no one said that except for you. So gloss over it all you want but you moved the goal posts. This entire thread is about SGA yet you want to talk about others. He said Cal changed the course of his career but you want to say no he didn’t. You are the only one in this thread arguing this. That says more about you than it does me. I could agree with you but then we’d both be wrong so instead I will actually listen to the words SGA said when he gave credit to Cal.
Move those goal posts and keep being a jackass. It’s fans like you that give UK fans the bad image we have with others. You do you.
I think what kind of makes Shai unique and a "win" for Cal was that this guy was basically a nobody in HS. Dude wasn't even a 5-star.
I'm not sure if Cal really did whole lot FOR Shai.. but he was at least the one who "found" him in college. Cal is excellent at spotting these diamonds in the rough.
I also think there's more to coaching than simply Xs and Os. You have to motivate. You have to push them just right, but not too much. I'm sure Shai had the raw talent to get to the NBA under many coaches.. but how many of them would have played Shai in year 1, educated him on pro basketball, how to handle bring an adult, etc.
I'm not sure if Cal really did whole lot FOR Shai.. but he was at least the one who "found" him in college. Cal is excellent at spotting these diamonds in the rough.
I also think there's more to coaching than simply Xs and Os. You have to motivate. You have to push them just right, but not too much. I'm sure Shai had the raw talent to get to the NBA under many coaches.. but how many of them would have played Shai in year 1, educated him on pro basketball, how to handle bring an adult, etc.
It's easy to dismiss facts by pigeon hole description of someone (in this case, me) as a "Cal Hater." If anyone does a little research on my posts I am anything but a Cal hater. I do believe he is not a great in-game coach and can be stubborn to the point of impacting a loss versus a win. It is also easy to jump back on the Cal bandwagon given how our team is doing in this tournament. But, the first time we get blown out then the same who bravely are now changing their tune will revert right back. Listen to the interview again and tell me where what I said was incorrect.
Oh, they are out in full force tonight. I'm sure you read my posts, but they weren't good enough for Cal's sacred defense team.
Yeah, this is accurate. I know some have learned to hate the man. I think that's a shame in some ways but I really do get why people want him gone. I'm fine with that, not that my opinion matters.
I don't think what Cal does, and why so many of his former players do so well in the NBA, is about Xs and Os or even situational coaching. I think it's about helping these guys get their heads on straight, learning how to become the best version of themselves, to work hard and not expect things to just be handed to them, learning how to be grateful, to give back, and to have respect for the game and opponents. I don't think SGA would say Cal taught him how to play the game or how to know what play to make. I do think the atmosphere, playing against top players every day, contributes significantly to this. At UK, the atmosphere is similar to a pro team. Having BBN putting pressure on is also helpful to these guys. If you can make it out of UK and the pressure cooker without losing your mind, you're going to be mentally tough.
Now, how much credit goes to Cal? Quite a bit. He created the environment. He motivated Shai to push himself to be the best. Some credit goes to UK, some goes to the pressure to win brought by BBN, some goes to other UK players battling him, and so on.
Every coach has flaws and we’re all aware of what Cal’s are. If we’re going to be fair we should admit what he’s good at as a coach as well. You make some good points.
Cal gets them started the NBA finishes them. The players leave UK before the team realizes the long term benefit of the talent he recruits. With that said Cal still sucks as our Coach and I still think he is a snake oil salesman.
I would have left it as this above which is hard to debate. I disagree and removed your last sentence.
Karl-Anthony Towns is another one that gets overlooked. You can talk about “talent” all you want, but KAT’s game and approach were weak and much less impactful when he came in at UK. Calipari forced him to man up and play through contact, as well as score in the post. I love the 3pt. shot as much as the next fan, but there’s a lot more to the game than that. If Calipari didn’t help “make” KAT, then in my opinion he certainly accelerated his ability to be a winning player by a couple of years.
Sometimes what you need in a professional mentor is not actually the skill itself but the approach to it, the philosophy behind it, and the level of commitment you have to spend on it. For example, a surgeon as he’s getting mentored doesn’t need his mentor to hold his hand for him and move it for him to show him how to do the surgery, but instead needs him to teach him how to approach it, prepare for it, and overcome difficulties. These tips and guidance can serve him well for the rest of his career and be extremely influential.
So do losses to Mercer and Lehigh make K a bad coach? What about the year Duke had a losing season and K conveniently had back surgery? When you coach long enough like Cal has, you will have a bad upset and a losing season or 2 most likely.
Nothing I posted had blind hate. Here we are 2 games into our summer round robin, and the pumpers are running wild again. God forgive me for saying Cal probably didn't have a lot to do with Shai's success, and then pointing to countless others that he did. The narrative right now should be everything about Cal is ****ing amazing because we actually look good again. I get it. Not really.
a lot of players that have great skill and potential never flourish in the NBA because they were not forced/taught to work hard and become the best version of themselves
look at the UK players in the NBA and name me one that does not praise Cal for how he made them push themselves to reach a much higher level
it is sad that some allow their hate to make complete ignorant fools of themselves
look at the UK players in the NBA and name me one that does not praise Cal for how he made them push themselves to reach a much higher level
it is sad that some allow their hate to make complete ignorant fools of themselves
UK isn't pUKe.
And, Cal has beaten pUKe once. 1-3 against them.
Problem for Cal is he's had more than a bad season or two.
NIT and missed dance.
5 double digit loss seasons overall. Not acceptable at UK
Lost the all time lead to Kansas.
7 seasons of 5 or more losses in the SEC
Last SEC tourney champ 2018
The program is not going in the right direction.
K has 5 titles. The comparison was dumb, but I wouldn't expect anything less from the individual who posted it.
#1 I wasn't even referring to anything you said.
#2 I'm not a "pumper."
And I agree with you, to a point. Clearly, Cal didn't teach him the game or what plays to make. He certainly didn't teach him to be 6-7 and have a 7 ft wingspan. But Shai was unheralded by most recruiting gurus. He came to UK last in UK's incoming class. So, clearly Calipari did help him. I would also give credit, as I did above, to the atmosphere where he was being challenged by other players daily and he was dealing with the pressure of BBN, which would help if you embrace it. But Cal is a master motivator and clearly pushed the right buttons to make Shai believe he could be great. Then Shai put in the work in the gym and took that starting pg job and became the best player in the gym at UK that season. He's taken that work ethic and continued down the path and has continued to hone his game.
Now, you don't have to give Calipari any credit at all for this. I really don't care. I was just making the case. This current team has a long way to go. No championships yet, not even this Canadian one yet. These teams aren't as good as I expected they'd be but this UK squad has been better than I expected. Still, I'm not pumping any sunshine here. They may wilt at the first sign of a real challenge and next season may be terrible again. I guess we'll see. I'll be cheering them on.
No it wasn’t. If you are saying one bad loss or one bad season defines whether or not someone can coach or not then apply those requirements evenly across the board. You certainly are the expert on dumb. You have that on lockdown. The next time you say something smart will be the first time.
That’s a lot different than basing the opinion on St Peters and the Covid season which is what you strictly based the original post on. None of those things means Cal is a bad coach. You don’t win 830 games, go to 4 Final Fours in 5 years, and make the HoF by being a bad coach. You could say that the game has passed him by, he has lost his fire, or many other things and be accurate. Simply saying he is a bad coach is inaccurate no matter how you slice it.
Yeah...I expanded the list a bit. There's more that could be written...no doubt.
I don't always write a complete doctoral thesis on these threads.
I still maintain the program is headed in the wrong direction.
One other thing. You keep saying Cal should get credit for PJ Washington but not SGA. PJ was the 12th ranked recruit while SGA was 34th. How is getting the 34th ranked recruit drafted 11th not a success but having the 12th ranked recruit stay two years and get drafted drafted 12 a success? That is an absolute horrible take by you.
Again heading in the wrong direction is completely different than Cal is a bad coach. One doesn’t have to have anything to do with the other.
I could argue a good coach would have not allowed the program to drift as it has in recent years. IMHO that makes Cal a bad coach in not recognizing the drift. It's possible to go from good to mediocre to bad. Perhaps mediocre would be a better evaluation of Cal at this point.
However, it's been pointed out on numerous threads Cal's insistence on doing things that don't work or that he doesn't adjust as needed. Wheeler was the most recent example. Boston was another. Just a couple of examples.
His seeming steadfast refusal to understand the program means something to the fans.....a lot to the fans, still bugs many.
The program is not a players program....it's about the name on the front of the jersey. Maybe I'm old school in that thinking.
I will repeat that none of that makes him a bad coach. The same things happened to Pitino but I bet you wouldn’t say he’s a bad coach. The same things were starting to happen with K with the beginning of NIL and the transfer portal so he retired. None of those three are bad coaches. You don’t develop their record or reputation by being bad.
While Pitino was at UK we didn't have the problems we're having with Cal.
What he's done since is irrelevant to this discussion.
No it’s not since when Pitino at UK was the prime of his career. What we are seeing with Cal is typical of people at the back end of their coaching career. We’ve seen it with Pitino, K, Williams, Bobby Knight, and the list goes on and on.
Cal did have some less than stellar years in his prime at UK.....because of his system. IF he gets the very best players he can win.
BUT, if he misses out in evaluating those players, or there is an injury....then his system fails as we have seen. IMHO the mark of a good coach is not to be in that situation.
Cal's only had depth a couple of times. To be successful in college bball depth is needed.
Daniel Orton had all the potential in the world but didn’t appear to want to put in the effort. His father was a negative factor in his development.
When Cal was in his prime at UK, he was going to 4 Final Fours in 5 years. He was winning more tournament games than anyone else. He won a Championship. He had one less than stellar year in his prime at UK and that was with a season ending injury to his center. The teams in the tournament usually only got 7 to 8 deep which is what Cal normally does.
Yes...in high school he had the injury.
However, he was not the super star he thought he was.
You illustrate my point....an injury to NN and the team busted due to lack of depth/experience.
And I recall in the Wall year the game against WV where we shot a bazillion threes instead of working the ball inside. And we couldn't buy a FT....another hallmark of Cal's teams in the big games.
so, you got upset about other threads and decided it was best to argue on this thread about Shai...smh
but you don't hate...lol
BTW...all know I am no Cal pumper...(I hope he has gotten his head outa his ass, but we will have to wait until jan to really judge) just not a hater. Some of you are ridiculous
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