SEC must return to divisions and should have four based on geography

[satcheluk]

Why does geography really matter? It's only a 1 or 2 hour plane ride to pretty much anywhere in the conference.

If you charter, but only 1 or maybe two sports charter and not every basketball team in the SEC does. We usually flew through Atlanta.

 

[satcheluk]

The only way it would seem to work is if the SEC, BIG#, and (maybe one more conference?) got a set number of slots in the playoff like I've heard before. So, if you have 4 guaranteed SEC and BIG# teams get in, then you could go to four divisions and those guys make the playoff.

Not likely to happen, because it would be hypocritical. The SEC is opposed to automatic berths for winning a conference, as they want the best teams in irrespective of winning their leagues, so how could they be against the Big12 champ who is ranked 24 getting in over a top 15 SEC team that didn't win their division?

 

[satcheluk]

Back to relegation, divide into two divisions based on record, top 8 & bottom 8. Only top 8 teams eligible for title game. Top 8 play each other & bottom 8 do same. Also play one (or two if nine games) team from other division. Next season, bottom 1/2 from top relegated to lower division for next season & top 1/2 from bottom move to top. Would make games within each division more competitive imo.

I love some form of the relegation system. It would force teams to aim high rather than settle for profitable mediocrity.

 

[truebluewildcat]

Don't hold your breath. The SEC isn't taking any teams in that aren't better than us in football. They are only interested in schools that can expand the pie, which means they have to generate more revenue for the league than would be their cut. None of the schools you mentioned would get even the smallest look. There probably isn't more than about 10 schools that would even be considered and 4 of those are already locked up in the B1G.

Best thing the BIG ever did was gobble up Maryland and Rutgers.

Two big northeastern metropolis schools. Big alumni bases in big city markets.

Got eyeballs from desirable markets. Those two teams aren’t going to regularly beat up on legacy programs.

Same for UCLA USC. Bigger brands than the other two but not beating up on anyone.

Got the bi-coastal markets with minimal hits to legacy big dogs.

SEC doesn’t necessarily need big name dominant powerhouses. Already have that.

Need better, bigger, more diverse market exposure.

 

[satcheluk]

Best thing the BIG ever did was gobble up Maryland and Rutgers.

Two big northeastern metropolis schools. Big alumni bases in big city markets.

Got eyeballs from desirable markets. Those two teams aren’t going to regularly beat up on legacy programs.

Same for UCLA USC. Bigger brands than the other two but not beating up on anyone.

Got the bi-coastal markets with minimal hits to legacy big dogs.

SEC doesn’t necessarily need big name dominant powerhouses. Already have that.

Need better, bigger, more diverse market exposure.

Since you seem to have studied it, how much was the B!G revenue per team before and after adding those teams and how much did adding those teams increase the TV deal? Now lets figure out how much their expenses increase because they have to fly 25 teams out to California every year. You make it sound like 1+1=2, but it's more like E=MC2

 

[truebluewildcat]

Since you seem to have studied it, how much was the B!G revenue per team before and after adding those teams and how much did adding those teams increase the TV deal? Now let’s figure out how much their expenses increase because they have to fly 25 teams out to California every year. You make it sound like 1+1=2, but it's more like E=MC2

Haven’t studied it. Just casually observed macro tea leaves.

I think BIG has made more and paid out more per school past couple of seasons.

I would assume the next TV deal will be worth way more than current, and current is worth way more than previous.

In the short term adding more teams, athlete rev sharing, lawsuits could all dilute the pot a bit.

Long term though the big picture math isn’t hard.

Bi-coastal population centers + heartland = name your price.

 

[satcheluk]

Haven’t studied it. Just casually observed macro tea leaves.

I think BIG has made more and paid out more per school past couple of seasons.

I would assume the next TV deal will be worth way more than current, and current is worth way more than previous.

In the short term adding more teams, athlete rev sharing, lawsuits could all dilute the pot a bit.

Long term though the big picture math isn’t hard.

Bi-coastal population centers + heartland = name your price.

It's not as easy as you seem to believe. OSU, I'm sure you would agree brings in more revenue than anyone, with maybe a couple of exceptions and they were $37mm in the red last year and that was before the school starts paying players directly. The B1G effed up and expanded too far geographically, which increased their income and increased their expenses even more. My guess is they went against the advice of their bean counters and took the emotional choice.

 

[truebluewildcat]

It's not as easy as you seem to believe. OSU, I'm sure you would agree brings in more revenue than anyone, with maybe a couple of exceptions and they were $37mm in the red last year and that was before the school starts paying players directly. The B1G effed up and expanded too far geographically, which increased their income and increased their expenses even more. My guess is they went against the advice of their bean counters and took the emotional choice.

Yeah read that article.

For fiscal year 2023-2024.

They had two fewer home games. Big payout to basketball coach.

Hired Chip Kelly who isn’t cheap. Basically two HCs. Plus big bump for staff.

This most recent seasons numbers, bowl payouts/rev share, plus playoff money, won’t be out til next year.

 

[satcheluk]

Yeah read that article.

For fiscal year 2023-2024.

They had two fewer home games. Big payout to basketball coach.

Hired Chip Kelly who isn’t cheap. Basically two HCs. Plus big bump for staff.

This most recent seasons numbers, bowl payouts/rev share, plus playoff money, won’t be out til next year.

And next year that $22mm revenue share payout to the players will be more money than everything mentioned in that article.

 

[truebluewildcat]

And next year that $22mm revenue share payout to the players will be more money than everything mentioned in that article.

They have a title to show for it.

The biggest most successful mega cap companies went through periods, some long periods, of losing money.

What individual universities do in any small time frame of a fiscal year isn’t really the macro issue I’m talking about.

Whether or not a program eeks out a little profit depends on too many different variables. Coaching buyouts, home games, whims of donors who may be pissed you haven’t beaten Michigan.

Those same donors may be more generous now that they have a title.

UK probably will squeeze by in the black. Profited by about 5ish million last year. Cal is off the books for this fiscal, so that’s even more money in the bank. Does that make us more successful than OSU?! No!

Money on the sideline is money not working towards something.

However the original point of my posts were big, conference and macro level.

The BIG, regardless of the individual pieces and what kind of year they had, is on a burner.

They made more money and paid out more money. What the schools blow or don’t blow it on is up to them.

If you look at it like an investment. The big has properties on both coasts, big population centers, and in the heartland.

Which is what TV, media, sponsors, etc want. They don’t care Ohio State lost money. They want eye balls and markets.

Right now BIG has more and more valuable of both.

Let’s see what those payouts are this year. Last year they paid about 10 mil more per school than SEC.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

If you go strictly by Geographic location, the 4 pods would be

EAST- UK, USC, UGA, UF.
CEntral- UT, VANDY, AU, BAMA
MIDWEST- OM, MSST, MISSOURI, ARKY
WEST- UTX, ATM, LSU, OU.

That keeps most of the rivalries, and with a perm opponent would keep almost all of them.

Perm out of pod opponent
UK-UT
UGA-AU
BAMA- LSU
UF-OU
ATM-USC
UTX-ARKY
VANDY MSST
OM-MISSOURI.

Won't make everyone happy but will most of the conference.

 

[truebluewildcat]

If you go strictly by Geographic location, the 4 pods would be

EAST- UK, USC, UGA, UF.
CEntral- UT, VANDY, AU, BAMA
MIDWEST- OM, MSST, MISSOURI, ARKY
WEST- UTX, ATM, LSU, OU.

That keeps most of the rivalries, and with a perm opponent would keep almost all of them.

Perm out of pod opponent
UK-UT
UGA-AU
BAMA- LSU
UF-OU
ATM-USC
UTX-ARKY
VANDY MSST
OM-MISSOURI.

Won't make everyone happy but will most of the conference.

Absolutely not.

No thanks.

Perfect scenario for rich getting richer and nothing really changing.

Like I said in another post. If you want status quo, same teams winning, in the playoffs, etc then strict scheduling with divisions and a “rival” or “perm” opponent is how you will proceed.

So from a Big Dawg perspective I get it. Traditional scheduling locks in the top tier programs ability to do what they’ve been doing.

UGA owns that division. Occasionally UF gets one over on them. AU is a hot mess so dawgs own the “perm/rival”…

Bama owns theirs. Occasionally UT nips at them.

“Midwest” about the fairest of the bunch but the way Kif recruits, gets good QBs, and coaches offense rebs probably have the edge. Drink gets some licks in if he hits in portal.

Nobody is touching Sark for the near future. Especially next year or two with Manning.

 

[vhcat70]

If you go strictly by Geographic location, the 4 pods would be

EAST- UK, USC, UGA, UF.
CEntral- UT, VANDY, AU, BAMA
MIDWEST- OM, MSST, MISSOURI, ARKY
WEST- UTX, ATM, LSU, OU.

AR is west of LSU, almost on OK border.

 

[satcheluk]

They have a title to show for it.

The biggest most successful mega cap companies went through periods, some long periods, of losing money.

What individual universities do in any small time frame of a fiscal year isn’t really the macro issue I’m talking about.

Whether or not a program eeks out a little profit depends on too many different variables. Coaching buyouts, home games, whims of donors who may be pissed you haven’t beaten Michigan.

Those same donors may be more generous now that they have a title.

UK probably will squeeze by in the black. Profited by about 5ish million last year. Cal is off the books for this fiscal, so that’s even more money in the bank. Does that make us more successful than OSU?! No!

Money on the sideline is money not working towards something.

However the original point of my posts were big, conference and macro level.

The BIG, regardless of the individual pieces and what kind of year they had, is on a burner.

They made more money and paid out more money. What the schools blow or don’t blow it on is up to them.

If you look at it like an investment. The big has properties on both coasts, big population centers, and in the heartland.

Which is what TV, media, sponsors, etc want. They don’t care Ohio State lost money. They want eye balls and markets.

Right now BIG has more and more valuable of both.

Let’s see what those payouts are this year. Last year they paid about 10 mil more per school than SEC.

Feel free to post anything marginally credible that says the B1G paid out more NIL on avg than the SEC. I've got multiple sources that say the SEC paid out more and it wasn't terribly close. Don't conflate OSU, UM and PSU paying out SEC level and think that is indicative of the conference because it isn't.

 

[truebluewildcat]

Feel free to post anything marginally credible that says the B1G paid out more NIL on avg than the SEC. I've got multiple sources that say the SEC paid out more and it wasn't terribly close. Don't conflate OSU, UM and PSU paying out SEC level and think that is indicative of the conference because it isn't.

I don’t think you are understanding what I’m saying or having the same conversation.

I don’t care what NIL payments are. I don’t care about the individual fiscal years of programs.

I care about big macro movements.

My point is revenue and revenue sharing with programs.

BIG made more money and payed out more money.

SEC paying more in NIL makes things worse for the conference in terms of aesthetics of spending money and having diddly to show for it going on two years in a row BIG winning in money, money paid out to programs, and playoff success.

SEC is trying to hunker down with a region it already owns and has maxed out.

BIG has gobbled up extremely value markets.

That’s my argument.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Absolutely not.

No thanks.

Perfect scenario for rich getting richer and nothing really changing.

Like I said in another post. If you want status quo, same teams winning, in the playoffs, etc then strict scheduling with divisions and a “rival” or “perm” opponent is how you will proceed.

So from a Big Dawg perspective I get it. Traditional scheduling locks in the top tier programs ability to do what they’ve been doing.

UGA owns that division. Occasionally UF gets one over on them. AU is a hot mess so dawgs own the “perm/rival”…

Bama owns theirs. Occasionally UT nips at them.

“Midwest” about the fairest of the bunch but the way Kif recruits, gets good QBs, and coaches offense rebs probably have the edge. Drink gets some licks in if he hits in portal.

Nobody is touching Sark for the near future. Especially next year or two with Manning.

So you solution would be to throw location out the window and let teams decide who they want to play. UGA has been at the top for a few years for a few years, but prior to that UF owed the East and the vols prior to UF for a couple of seasons and back to UF. 3 of the divisions are pretty even, but even the Midwest had 2 teams go 9-3 and both were 10 game winners in 23. I don't believe the conference ADs and pres will allow one pod to be made up up the 4 weakes teams in the conference, whoever that may be.

I don't claim to have all the answers but you have some method of determining pods, geographally is as good as any, would you prefer one of Arky, MSST, Vandy and UK? Have to remember there will be 5-6 other SEC games, all against tough teams.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

AR is west of LSU, almost on OK border.

Then swap their pods, fixed, OU can be Texas's perm opponent.

 

[truebluewildcat]

So you solution would be to throw location out the window and let teams decide who they want to play. UGA has been at the top for a few years for a few years, but prior to that UF owed the East and the vols prior to UF for a couple of seasons and back to UF. 3 of the divisions are pretty even, but even the Midwest had 2 teams go 9-3 and both were 10 game winners in 23. I don't believe the conference ADs and pres will allow one pod to be made up up the 4 weakes teams in the conference, whoever that may be.

I don't claim to have all the answers but you have some method of determining pods, geographally is as good as any, would you prefer one of Arky, MSST, Vandy and UK? Have to remember there will be 5-6 other SEC games, all against tough teams.

My solution is getting away from pods/divisions and traditional scheduling in general. It has run its course.

I think the SEC should leave the schedule open and allow for more flexibility.

One general guideline being everyone should play everyone every couple of seasons.

Also, I do think fewer strict ties via "perm/rival" and more openness to flexibility allows for the conference to "flex" or lean into match ups that are hot now. Whether it's because two coaches their personalities/styles, two great QBs going at it, whatever the story lines may be between a couple of programs.

If you're going to repeat a game every year, or a. It needs to be an exciting one. Example UF, Texas. Lagway v Manning may turn out to be great TV. Cool. I'm good with that game repeating for now.

Other side of that coin. Stinker games. Is UK UT really interesting at this point? No, not really. It's never been a rivalry. UT always wins. Heupel boat racing Mark Stoops...there's better match ups for both programs and ratings to be had for the SEC.

Conference needs some ability to flex out of duds and into studs.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

My solution is getting away from pods/divisions and traditional scheduling in general. It has run its course.

I think the SEC should leave the schedule open and allow for more flexibility.

One general guideline being everyone should play everyone every couple of seasons.

Also, I do think fewer strict ties via "perm/rival" and more openness to flexibility allows for the conference to "flex" or lean into match ups that are hot now. Whether it's because two coaches their personalities/styles, two great QBs going at it, whatever the story lines may be between a couple of programs.

If you're going to repeat a game every year, or a. It needs to be an exciting one. Example UF, Texas. Lagway v Manning may turn out to be great TV. Cool. I'm good with that game repeating for now.

Other side of that coin. Stinker games. Is UK UT really interesting at this point? No, not really. It's never been a rivalry. UT always wins. Heupel boat racing Mark Stoops...there's better match ups for both programs and ratings to be had for the SEC.

Conference needs some ability to flex out of duds and into studs.

As a former AD what you are suggesting is an annual scheduling nightmare that most fans don't want. AU wants to play Bama and UGA. Bama and UT fans want to play each other. What you are suggesting ends century old rivalries that the vast majority want to keep.

 

[3632]

As long as they keep conference championships they need to do divisions to significantly reduce the chance of having rematches in the title game frequently. Doesn’t really add much to the equation if everything when that happens. Either go back to two divisions or go pods but match up one pod with another for a season to determine schedule so there is only one random team from the other half on everybody’s schedule that could be a rematch.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

My solution is getting away from pods/divisions and traditional scheduling in general. It has run its course.

I think the SEC should leave the schedule open and allow for more flexibility.

One general guideline being everyone should play everyone every couple of seasons.

Also, I do think fewer strict ties via "perm/rival" and more openness to flexibility allows for the conference to "flex" or lean into match ups that are hot now. Whether it's because two coaches their personalities/styles, two great QBs going at it, whatever the story lines may be between a couple of programs.

If you're going to repeat a game every year, or a. It needs to be an exciting one. Example UF, Texas. Lagway v Manning may turn out to be great TV. Cool. I'm good with that game repeating for now.

Other side of that coin. Stinker games. Is UK UT really interesting at this point? No, not really. It's never been a rivalry. UT always wins. Heupel boat racing Mark Stoops...there's better match ups for both programs and ratings to be had for the SEC.

Conference needs some ability to flex out of duds and into studs.

Are saying the SEC paid more NIL than the Big and had nothing to show for it? 3 members of the Big are paying more than any team outside of Texas in the SEC. Oregon has an 86 year old billionaire booster that wants to see a NC before he passes and told Lanning to do whatever it took, OSU spent 10m last year on 2 portal kids, Mich spent 10m on a QB this signing class. If you are claiming the average Big school spent less than the SEC members you are probably correct, but the top 3-4 Big teams spent more than any SEC team and 3 of those have nothing to show for it. College football is gone, it is now a semi pro league with no rules. But lets not act like the SEC led the nation in NIL expenditures and have nothing to show for it, at least 2 Big teams spent more than any SEC team, including Texas and have nothing to show for it.

 

[Thecycle27]

I don’t think any of the SEC teams had a higher NIL package than Ohio State and Oregon. The Big Ten schools have enormous alumni bases. What opening up NIL did was open the flood gates in the Big Ten. I think the results in the field are showing that shift. Penn State just spent 3M on a DC. The Big Ten isn’t playing around. Now the difference is the Big Ten has 4 elite programs not 10 like the SEC.

Expanding the SEC was unnecessary. It completely messed up their scheduling. If they go to 9 games good luck. The rosters are being thinned out. Still the best but not nearly as deep. It makes it really hard to navigate schedules. They are going to force brands to play then the brands have to get the mid and lower level teams.

It is a NFL like league that is going to have parity. It is unavoidable. Too many schools with similar resources and recruiting.