SEC Coaches anonymously discuss 2024 Conference opponents, including Kentucky

[ellowelzees]

Link to the article.

Bit on UK:

“After the Texas A&M flirtation with [Mark] Stoops, a lot of us think he’s probably going to end up retiring from Kentucky in a few years. He’ll leave the game at a smart age, the way his brother [Bob] did. Before that, they’ve got to rework the offense again. It’s remarkable in this league how often they lose offensive coordinators and the program doesn’t collapse."

"They might have one of the best defensive lines in the league, and they’re really good at playing the run."

"The measure for success is if they can install another new scheme to fit another new transfer QB [Brock Vandagriff from Georgia]."

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Link to the article.

Bit on UK:

“After the Texas A&M flirtation with [Mark] Stoops, a lot of us think he’s probably going to end up retiring from Kentucky in a few years. He’ll leave the game at a smart age, the way his brother [Bob] did. Before that, they’ve got to rework the offense again. It’s remarkable in this league how often they lose offensive coordinators and the program doesn’t collapse."

"They might have one of the best defensive lines in the league, an

d they’re really good at playing the run."

"The measure for success is if they can install another new scheme to fit another new transfer QB [Brock Vandagriff from Georgia]."

The CMS thing with ATM surprised me. But I agree with you on him retiring relatively young and from out of no where. My reason for that is he has money, a successful business but the biggest reason is family history. Unless I am mistaken his father passed coaching for massive heart attack. CMS has some intense moments on the sideline that I have seen matched by only Will Muschamp as head coach at UF. His brother has already gone this route.

 

[hmt5000]

He's a good coach and he just need to adopt his brothers love of a high scoring offense in order to take the next step. You have to be willing to put your D on the field more because you are scoring.

 

[backinky2018]

I love this annual article that Athlon does. It's very interesting.

 

[ArtLaibsGhost]

He's a good coach and he just need to adopt his brothers love of a high scoring offense in order to take the next step. You have to be willing to put your D on the field more because you are scoring.

If he hasn't "adapted" by now it ain't happening. At what point do we accept the reason we've HAD the number of OCs we have had under his tenure

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

If he hasn't "adapted" by now it ain't happening. At what point do we accept the reason we've HAD the number of OCs we have had under his tenure

Thats a little unfair to CMS. When he got here talent lvl at UK was not SEC level, had very few that would be on 2 deep on several SEC teams. CMS did what he had to do, he shortened the game, limited possessions and controlled the ball. As the talent improved so did the wins, but getting to SEC roster doesn't happen in a year, or didn't when CMS arrived, now with the portal and unlimited transfers maybe it does.

But each year he has upgraded the roster talent, I know people weren't happy with the offensive pace last fall, but UK was playing with a QB who didn't get back to his pre injury self. Vandagriff is healthy, doesn't have the experience you want but he has a very high ceiling. UK has good WR, and several of them, good RB, anyone's guess if they are on CR and BS lvl but they are serviceable SEC RB who will be helped by what I think will be a pretty potent passing attack. Who knows CMS might turn into his big brother on the offensive side, yeah i know a stretch, but I think he will feel better with opening things up on offense this year. If he doesn't, then i guess you are probably right, he won't ever feel confident enough to turn it loose.

 

[YaketySax]

Stoops first OC hire was a Air Raid OC from the B12 who had averaged 37.5 points per game in 2012. The SEC is filled with unforgiving defenses, coupled w/ UK not having the type of skill players to consistently put up points against the very best defenders.

Stoops came to Lexington with the right offensive philosophy, he just doesn't recruit at a level to score 40 points per game and has to adapt to his personnel. The most points they averaged were 30 points per game in 2016 (Gran's first season) and 32.3 points per game (Coen's first season). Both offenses featured future NFL players.

Points come from talent relative to its defensive match-ups not from generic offensive philosophy.

 

[Rembrandt90]

If he hasn't "adapted" by now it ain't happening. At what point do we accept the reason we've HAD the number of OCs we have had under his tenure

Look around and learn. There isn't an OC anywhere in the SEC who has been in his job more than 3 years. Coordinators come and go everywhere. You are taking a phenomenon very common in the modern coaching marketplace and falsely using it to fit your chosen narrative on Stoops. That is called confirmation bias. Actually, Stoops has done a good job with his coaching staff, although not a perfect job.

 

[Soupbean]

Stoops first OC hire was a Air Raid OC from the B12 who had averaged 37.5 points per game in 2012. The SEC is filled with unforgiving defenses, coupled w/ UK not having the type of skill players to consistently put up points against the very best defenders.

Stoops came to Lexington with the right offensive philosophy, he just doesn't recruit at a level to score 40 points per game and has to adapt to his personnel. The most points they averaged were 30 points per game in 2016 (Gran's first season) and 32.3 points per game (Coen's first season). Both offenses featured future NFL players.

Points come from talent relative to its defensive match-ups not from generic offensive philosophy.

He actually started with two of those OC's with first Neal Brown and then Shannon Dawson so its hard to say he had an aversion to high scoring offenses. Neither of those worked out for several reasons many of which Grumpy pointed out earlier . . . a combination not enough talent yet and in Dawsons case just mismanagement of the offense.

Even after going to Eddie Gran the intent was to still be balanced and open as Eddie was known for a high scoring offense and mixinig it up at UC, but personell and trouble finding a good QB made both evolve to more of the power game after that but I dont think it was because Stoops didnt want to score or put up points, he just felt that was more his teams personality and make up. Even Eddie Gran went completely away from what he had done in the past and adopted the power game and had success with it due to some real talented RBs and Lynn Bowden.

Now do I beleive Stoops own personality prefers a power tough guy game . . . absolutely. And I do think there are times his conservatism bleeds into the game plan. But I dont think he's been trying all along to force that down our throats, I think circumstance led to some of that.

 

[YaketySax]

He actually started with two of those OC's with first Neal Brown and then Shannon Dawson so its hard to say he had an aversion to high scoring offenses. Neither of those worked out for several reasons many of which Grumpy pointed out earlier . . . a combination not enough talent yet and in Dawsons case just mismanagement of the offense.

Even after going to Eddie Gran the intent was to still be balanced and open as Eddie was known for a high scoring offense and mixinig it up at UC, but personell and trouble finding a good QB made both evolve to more of the power game after that but I dont think it was because Stoops didnt want to score or put up points, he just felt that was more his teams personality and make up. Even Eddie Gran went completely away from what he had done in the past and adopted the power game and had success with it due to some real talented RBs and Lynn Bowden.

Now do I beleive Stoops own personality prefers a power tough guy game . . . absolutely. And I do think there are times his conservatism bleeds into the game plan. But I dont think he's been trying all along to force that down our throats, I think circumstance led to some of that.

Sounds like…we agree…?

 

[Pelosigalore]

Good Healthy QB with decent weapons =good offense.
Problem is that has been rare for Stoops.

 

[R.O.T.Muckinfush]

Stoops plays scared and not to win.. reason he is skeered of throwing the ball

 

[Rembrandt90]

Stoops plays scared and not to win.. reason he is skeered of throwing the ball

Just stop the trolling. Really.

 

[trueblujr2]

He actually started with two of those OC's with first Neal Brown and then Shannon Dawson so its hard to say he had an aversion to high scoring offenses. Neither of those worked out for several reasons many of which Grumpy pointed out earlier . . . a combination not enough talent yet and in Dawsons case just mismanagement of the offense.

Even after going to Eddie Gran the intent was to still be balanced and open as Eddie was known for a high scoring offense and mixinig it up at UC, but personell and trouble finding a good QB made both evolve to more of the power game after that but I dont think it was because Stoops didnt want to score or put up points, he just felt that was more his teams personality and make up. Even Eddie Gran went completely away from what he had done in the past and adopted the power game and had success with it due to some real talented RBs and Lynn Bowden.

Now do I beleive Stoops own personality prefers a power tough guy game . . . absolutely. And I do think there are times his conservatism bleeds into the game plan. But I dont think he's been trying all along to force that down our throats, I think circumstance led to some of that.

Neal Brown "worked out" in the sense that he left to take a head coaching job at Troy. Yes he was somewhat hamstrung at UK when Stoops took over because of the talent level, but he made the best of what we had and and despite the losses earned himself some recognition. SO I don't put him in the category of not working out. had he not gone to Troy, he would have still been our OC for as long as he wanted the job.

 

[The-Hack]

Even Eddie Gran went completely away from what he had done in the past and adopted the power game and had success with it due to some real talented RBs and Lynn Bowden.

True, but Eddie went to that power game a few seconds after his QB exited the New Mexico State game with a fracture in his back . . . so even that example doesn't really fit the narrative that Stoops is too conservative.

In 2016, Barker had thrown for over 300 yards in the first half of the first game, against Southern Mississippi, but aggravated/injured his back in the second half of that game, looked lost against UF and early against NMS.

I first learned the names, Bennie Snell and Steven Johnson, in that water-shed game.

 

[Pelosigalore]

I think that Stoops tries to protect his defense, but ideally he wants to score points…when he knows that his offense is capable. Last year, I don’t think he had a lot of confidence in Leary.

 

[hmt5000]

He actually started with two of those OC's with first Neal Brown and then Shannon Dawson so its hard to say he had an aversion to high scoring offenses. Neither of those worked out for several reasons many of which Grumpy pointed out earlier . . . a combination not enough talent yet and in Dawsons case just mismanagement of the offense.

Even after going to Eddie Gran the intent was to still be balanced and open as Eddie was known for a high scoring offense and mixinig it up at UC, but personell and trouble finding a good QB made both evolve to more of the power game after that but I dont think it was because Stoops didnt want to score or put up points, he just felt that was more his teams personality and make up. Even Eddie Gran went completely away from what he had done in the past and adopted the power game and had success with it due to some real talented RBs and Lynn Bowden.

Now do I beleive Stoops own personality prefers a power tough guy game . . . absolutely. And I do think there are times his conservatism bleeds into the game plan. But I dont think he's been trying all along to force that down our throats, I think circumstance led to some of that.

That's my thought. He didn't have good records when he tried to score a lot so he seemed to quit on it. He is going to be stuck at the 7 or 8 win mark without putting up some points.

 

[hmt5000]

I think that Stoops tries to protect his defense, but ideally he wants to score points…when he knows that his offense is capable. Last year, I don’t think he had a lot of confidence in Leary.

Yep. After that So Miss game with Dawson as OC... He blamed Dawson for scoring too quick and leaving his defense out there too long. That showed mindset to me. I was wondering why the D wasn't playing more agressive giving that the O was scoring at will that first half.

 

[Rembrandt90]

Yep. After that So Miss game with Dawson as OC... He blamed Dawson for scoring too quick and leaving his defense out there too long. That showed mindset to me. I was wondering why the D wasn't playing more agressive giving that the O was scoring at will that first half.

Pretty simple. Back then, Stoops didn't have the roster he needed to play winning football. It took Stoops some time to build up a regional recruiting base and develop his recruiting traction. Actually, the regional recruiting base is still being developed, but has come a very long way since then.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

That's my thought. He didn't have good records when he tried to score a lot so he seemed to quit on it. He is going to be stuck at the 7 or 8 win mark without putting up some points.

I mean he's won 10 games 2 times already.

Not sure I see it with expanded sec and NIL but he has done it twice since 2018.

 

[Roe07]

He's a good coach and he just need to adopt his brothers love of a high scoring offense in order to take the next step. You have to be willing to put your D on the field more because you are scoring.

Never gonna happen.

 

[Soupbean]

True, but Eddie went to that power game a few seconds after his QB exited the New Mexico State game with a fracture in his back . . . so even that example doesn't really fit the narrative that Stoops is too conservative.

In 2016, Barker had thrown for over 300 yards in the first half of the first game, against Southern Mississippi, but aggravated/injured his back in the second half of that game, looked lost against UF and early against NMS.

I first learned the names, Bennie Snell and Steven Johnson, in that water-shed game.

Great point, forgot about that. I remember thinking, dang Barker is going to be a gunslinger and we're airing it out, then . . .. well maybe not.

 

[Soupbean]

Neal Brown "worked out" in the sense that he left to take a head coaching job at Troy. Yes he was somewhat hamstrung at UK when Stoops took over because of the talent level, but he made the best of what we had and and despite the losses earned himself some recognition. SO I don't put him in the category of not working out. had he not gone to Troy, he would have still been our OC for as long as he wanted the job.

Yeah good point, I didnt mean to imply Neal himself didnt work out, I meant that because he left it didnt work out for Stoops.

 

[Soupbean]

Sounds like…we agree…?

Yes Sir, just adding to your point so I could take credit for it

 

[The-Hack]

I mean he's won 10 games 2 times already.

Not sure I see it with expanded sec and NIL but he has done it twice since 2018.

This is the same argument/discussion I had a year ago:

“ Lol.

No,

VH. In sports, and many other areas of life, a “ceiling” and a “floor,” or “base” are used to describe the heights beyond which one cannot rise, and the depth beyond which one cannot fall.

Hence posts describe Stoops’ floor as Brooks’ ceiling, and note the irony of the excitement for Brooks 8-5 seasons, and the angst for similar seasons under Stoops.

I hope this post has lifted the ceiling on your understanding of the urban dictionary.”

 

[Deeeefense]

I think Stoops realized his need to modernize the offense when he brought Coen in for the 2021 season which was offensively a big step up from what we had before. Unfortunately he bolted and we got Scang and things didn't work out so well. Last year again with Coen we were balanced but too slow and complicated, and didn't get the consistency from some of the skill players we needed to be able to put up the numbers we needed.

Jury's out on Hamdan but I like the he has history with Chris Peterson. He is a smart experienced coach and has a lot of weapons, from a talent perspective maybe the most potent offense we have had yet. I'm optimistic that the offence can be very good this year.

 

[truebluewildcat]

Yeah that pretty much sums up Stoops tenure.

Great D, especially up front. High turnover at the two most important positions in modern day passing football...QB, OC.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

This is the same argument/discussion I had a year ago:

“ Lol.

No,

VH. In sports, and many other areas of life, a “ceiling” and a “floor,” or “base” are used to describe the heights beyond which one cannot rise, and the depth beyond which one cannot fall.

Hence posts describe Stoops’ floor as Brooks’ ceiling, and note the irony of the excitement for Brooks 8-5 seasons, and the angst for similar seasons under Stoops.

I hope this post has lifted the ceiling on your understanding of the urban dictionary.”

CMS isn't the coach if you want track meet games every week. The SEC is a different animal than it was 30 years ago. It's 16 teams, with at east 10 of them heading into the season with playoff expectations. OM is all in on winning theSEC this year with the portal kids they brought in, Missouri brought in what they think will get them over the hump, both are expecting to be in the playoffs. LSU is relacing a 1st round QBwith another and return an experienced OL.Bama returns a QBand several playmaker, UK has 2 WR that are at least top 10 in SEC, a highly ranked QBtransfer and a CMS defense, Texas returns s the core of their playoff team, OU fans are expecting to take a big step forward, UTjr has a QB that invented the forward pass, UGA returns 8 starters on D and 7 on O, Including 44 starts in 23. Then you have AU and UF who have delusional fanbases. So it looks like 11 teams are expecting to reach the playoffs or at least their fans are.

I will be surprised if anyone goes 12-0, I know we have 2 of last years playoff teams on the road, everyone has a tough schedule.

 

[The-Hack]

The SEC is a different animal than it was 30 years ago. It's 16 teams,

It’s a biatch, and I suspect Oklahoma and UTw will have a period of ajustment.

At some point, UTw and/or Oklahoma will be down 10 in the 4th against a Kentucky or South Carolina or a State, and thinking, “this ain’t Kansas anymore, Toto!”

 

[hmt5000]

It’s a biatch, and I suspect Oklahoma and UTw will have a period of ajustment.

At some point, UTw and/or Oklahoma will be down 10 in the 4th against a Kentucky or South Carolina or a State, and thinking, “this ain’t Kansas anyone, Toto!”

And just the different styles of play.... They can't just build to stop one type of offense and one type of defense.

 

[JHB4UK]

Friendly reminder the last 2 Stoops starting QBs at UK left & were NFL draft picks....for those who insist he hates offense and will never change

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Great point, forgot about that. I remember thinking, dang Barker is going to be a gunslinger and we're airing it out, then . . .. well maybe not.

Something i oddly often think about - how different things could've been had barker not suffered that freak back injury. His first injury free half under gran, he looked like a legit Heisman contender. 3 tds over 300 yards and tons of accurate bombs to numerous guys. Then the worst happens but somehow gran is able to take a throw away transfer, completely change the offense in stride and get us to our first bowl game in forever. Masterful job.

If that injury never occurs, our season probably ends with one more win (that first game) and maybe one more. Not sure who, because we trampled Mizzou and im not sure who we would've beat that we didn't.

Yet the entire team identity would've been different. No Benny (as we know him) or crod. Probably no big blue wall.

think Stoops realized his need to modernize the offense when he brought Coen

We ran a modern offense. Rpo was as modern as it got at the time. Problem was injuries kept forcing us into just running the ball and it made recruiting wrs nearly impossible.

After some truly masterful seasons (even the last year, gran coached the entire offense basically himself the last half of the season after schlarman died and hinshaw quit) gran agreed to step down so stoops could hire someone to change the perception.

He never gets enough credit for his coaching, but he definitely doesn't get enough credit for his voluntary step down.

 

[trueblujr2]

Yep. After that So Miss game with Dawson as OC... He blamed Dawson for scoring too quick and leaving his defense out there too long. That showed mindset to me. I was wondering why the D wasn't playing more agressive giving that the O was scoring at will that first half.

That was also earlier in his tenure before we had real Defensive depth. That was when we were still gassed in the fourth quarter. We have the defense and depth now that "scoring too fast" shouldn't be an issue.

 

[The-Hack]

And just the different styles of play.... They can't just build to stop one type of offense and one type of defense.

A few years ago, I noticed that U of L had no Defensive Tackles or Nose Guards exceeding 300 lbs.

In a discussion with U of L and Cat fans, on this forum, in order to prove that this was way too light to play effective run defense, I researched all the teams who had recently made the playoffs. Bama, Clemson, Georgia, Oklahoma, etc.

I was surprised to see that Oklahoma had no 300+ pounders on their defensive line, as the rest had five or more, apiece. Then I remembered they were Big 12, and that they had had no real success once they made the playoffs.

I have not researched their current rosters. I wonder, though, if their focus stopping spread offenses every week has weakened their focus on interior defensive line play.

 

[hmt5000]

A few years ago, I noticed that U of L had no Defensive Tackles or Nose Guards exceeding 300 lbs.

In a discussion with U of L and Cat fans, on this forum, in order to prove that this was way too light to play effective run defense, I researched all the teams who had recently made the playoffs. Bama, Clemson, Georgia, Oklahoma, etc.

I was surprised to see that Oklahoma had no 300+ pounders on their defensive line, as the rest had five or more, apiece. Then I remembered they were Big 12, and that they had had no real success once they made the playoffs.

I have not researched their current rosters. I wonder, though, if their focus stopping spread offenses every week has weakened their focus on interior defensive line play.

I remember hearing that something like 8 OC's come out of 3 spread offense coaching trees. They are all running basically a similar offense.