There are well known tendencies and likelihoods in athletic completion. There are rational physical reasons for them. If you choose not to accept them, or if you just enjoy arguing hypotheticals, that doesn’t change the history of SEC football. In 3 years, Nik Scalzo might weigh 215 pounds, as you are insisting he will. Or not. We will find out soon enough. There will be a competition, and then we will know what happens.
Scalzo commits to Kentucky
- Thread starter wildcatman26
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He's a Jr in HS. He will gain weight. Probably grow an inch or more.
Even if he doesn't he can still succeed. It will be tougher but possible. So far he's succeeding against the best he competition out there
Even if he doesn't he can still succeed. It will be tougher but possible. So far he's succeeding against the best he competition out there
Is that really the best predictor? There are a lot of problems with that limited perspective.
Are you being serious? This discussion has gone well beyond the realm of reason. Let’s just agree to support all UK players and see what happens.
Definitely. There are many flaws in that perspective. First, how many QBs under six foot have been given the chance to QB in the SEC? So, the comparators are few. Second, foot speed, arm strength, smarts, etc. are all factors independent of size that are better factors for success. There are more. Let’s not pretend you are applying some algorithm to this discussion and anything that disagrees is not “serious.”
LOL! For heaven’s sakes, who said anything about an algorithm? I’m sure you know that I understand those factors, as most of us do. Is it alright with you if we just agree to support all of our players and let them compete?
No but it's nice to know you have a problem with the written word. The shot is not while they are on campus, the shot is allowing them to be on campus.
See ya.
I never suggested otherwise.
There was a time when fans said a black QB could not be successful in the SEC. Some said a DT QB could not have success. Some argued a spread offense could not.
Gran and Hinshaw asked Nick to commit in May. Not February 2019. Not December 2018. He committed about the same time as Jones and Williams. There might be factors that are better predictors than size.
How many QBs under six feet tall have we offered under these coaches? Hhhmmmmm. There might be factors other than size that are better predictors.
My gut tells me that we take one QB in this class.
This I've seen first hand. There is an absolute bias toward shorter QBs at my HS
How many times have we heard he's got prototypical size? Even if he's not a very good QB. College and NFL will always want the bigger guy even if he isn't as good. How many 6'4" QBs are bad and only get a scholarship because they are big and the coaches are willing to gamble with them?
Are you really going to bring race into this? Really? I have to call BS there. If I pointed out that certain posters appear very agitated and veer off the path of the discussion whenever the subject of short players arises, that would not be less reasonable than bringing race into this. As for the rest, you are fabricating an argument that goes far astray. So, again, anything is possible. Although there are well-known historical tendencies for reasons of simple physics, there have also been occasional outliers. I suggest supporting all UK players and letting them settle this through athletic competition.
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This is a discussion about recruiting. High school seniors require years to prove what they can do as college football players, but there are well-known tendencies. I have asked you at least twice to agree with me that we should support all UK players and then just wait for them to work everything out through athletic competition. Whenever posters on this board lower the shelves to personal insults, I can always tell that they don’t have anything substantive to support their positions. And when people spin a subject using bad racial analogies, the Archie alarm goes off. Try another approach.
You insult others and you clearly don’t even realize your hypocrisy. But, this is your pattern of avoiding the discussion by crying foul.
Saying I brought race into the discussion was nothing short of stupid.
I'm going to skip all the bitching and fighting and member measuring and just say Welcome to the BBN Mr. Scalzo!
Just like any other QB regardless of size, Scalzo's success/lack of will be determined by his arm strength and accuracy, his ability to recognize and understand coverage, his decision making, his poise, his mobility and his leadership. If Scalzo exhibits the vast majority of these traits to a certain degree, he will have some success. If not, he won't. Think of Patrick Towles. Pat had the arm strength and mobility, but little else, at least to the degree necessary to be successful. His height/weight didn't help him in the least.
I did not “bring race into this.” You should be able to discern that and be above that claim. I provided three examples of things people said at one time would not work in the SEC, because, in part, they had not seen it in the SEC. Which appears to be your repeated mantra about NS. You have not seen many 5’10” QBs in the SEC and, therefore, you don’t predict success.
Your simplistic deduction excludes the relevant factors for success, regardless of size. It’s the least scientific prediction on this board. The “it’s rare, therefore it likely won’t work” explanation is not one with a strong foundation.
If he had a much better offer sheet I could somewhat agree with you, but he dosen't and who knows maybe he will. Dusty Bonner was pretty good, but he played for a HC that thought offense was worth something more than resting his defense.
NS appears to have a bigger arm and quicker feet than did Bonner. Offer sheets in May don’t concern me with this staff. If they take a QB commitment at this juncture, they must think the kid can play. And, if they are right, as they have been in the past, more offers are likely. See Mac Jones as an example.
Totally agree with you on the strengths of NS vs DB, but the head coaches are in a completely different hemisphere when it comes to their belief in offense. Mumme did an absolutely awesome job with Bonner despite the deficiencies that he had.
This little debate has gone on awhile and taken several twist. The reality is being sub 6' is not going to make or break a kid from being a successful college QB. Aaron Murray was a fairly decent college qb and 6' was pretty generous to him. But he isn't ideal size regardless of his other skills, UGA's 3rd string QB is a little guy who pass for 14K yards in HS, can make any throw you want to make and had multiple offers from small programs. But his dream was to play SEC football, he qualified for Georgia's Hope scholarship which pays tuition and books, and is a preferred walkon which I believes allows him to eat in athletes dining hall and live in athletes dorm. I think he could be successful and play alot at a smaller school, but barring some QB injuries he won't play at UGA
I watched UL dismantle UK at Commonwealth and knew that Bonner could not compete at the P5 level. Teams played the line and dared him to go long, which he could not do. Mumme handed the reigns prematurely to Jared, because he had no other choice.
Kentucky, Bonner was the backup quarterback behind eventual #1 overall NFLdraft pick Tim Couch during the 1998 season in which the Wildcats ended up in the Outback Bowl after winning seven games. Couch went to the NFL after his junior season and Bonner became the starting quarterback in 1999. In 1999, Bonner started all 12-games and led the Southeastern Conference in pass efficiency, total offense, and passing yards per game. He led Kentucky to six wins (including victories over Louisiana State University and the University of Arkansas) and a close loss in the Music City Bowl. After head coach Hal Mumme announced that freshman Jared Lorenzen would be the starting quarterback for the 2000 season, Bonner transferred to Valdosta State University.[1] Dusty lists his most memorable collegiate moment as defeating Vanderbilt while playing for UK to become bowl eligible.
Not sure why you cut and pasted that. UK was not going to improve with Bonner at QB. I was also at the LSU game. LSU was awful awful awful. They won just ONE game and that was against Arkansas. Bonner also beat a winless USC team that year, a simply awful IU team, and a 5-6 Vandy. The only win that has any merit that year was against Arkansas. You are not making a case for Bonner in 2018, are you? UL smacked UK 56-28. Redman ate UK's defense and Bonner could not get the ball down the field.
![[banana]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1682178.gif "banana [banana]")
Other factors are involved. If you were 5' 10" and weighed 340# you might have been an even better nose guard, IF you were also able to jump 10' high and block passes.
So, how much do you weigh and can you jump 10' high, your entire football future hangs in the balance. And don't even bother calling Cal.
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At this time of recruiting, the analysts and such are pretty accurate. We are nationally his highest D1 offer. Schools/coaches/etc evaluate recruits better now than they ever have. I'm not saying this is a bad get, he may end up being a great player, but like someone said, the offer list is a solid indicator. That's true. Since he's going against great talent now, it's only going to get harder in the SEC. There's reasons why he doesn't have a ton offers. I hope he ends up being good for us, though he has a lot to prove. He'd be a legit diamond in the rough..
Like you said the analysts are pretty accurate now, I think any 5.7 has a pretty good chance of being a good contributor, of course you do have five star QBs at places like Georgia that have to transfer to play, or SEC Offensive POYs that can't keep their starting job--------occasionally. And boy, would we like to have either one.
I think most of the recruits that the services miss on either have character issues (lackawanna) or are two stars that they don't see much of and miss, and of course there are always early and late developers that throw them off. This kid plays at a big time program with lots of competition and a lot of coverage..
LOL
Coaches evaluate better now than they ever have. Your words. Yet, you apparently don’t give Gran and Hinshaw that same credit.
And, I love when people say something crappy and then cover their arses with the “I hope I am wrong.” Suck it up and stand by your position. It’s not worth having if you cannot man up to it.
BTW, 11, remember how desired SJ was? All the services and schools raving about him when Hinshaw landed him at UK?
I would agree with your point more if, as stated above, the coaches were taking his commitment in January instead of May. There have just been too many recruits that have blown up months after this coaching staff has identified them and offered them before anyone else.
I had a nephew who was a very good hs basketball player...at 5'10" his senior year he made all-region and honorable mention all state and signed with a small instate college . Between the summer after his graduation and by the time he was suppose to report to college he grew to 6'2". Things can change.
Maybe a bigger reason for not many offers is that he has always seemed to be in love with UK AND says he is fully committed. It doesn't look good for any major school to be turned down for an offer from UK.
Here is an example of some of what I see in this thread. Go back three years with me and I suspect we read threads like this about Snell:
"Benny Snell has offers from BC and Iowa, and then a bunch of non-P5 schools. The issue is probably his speed. Maybe we will see confirmation in his status by some more prominent schools offering late, but he is just a three star and the system and coaches today really seem to know how to evaluate. Nationally, he just did not have very high value offers. Looking at his offer list, its only going to get harder for him in the SEC. There's reasons why he doesn't have a ton offers. I hope he ends up being good for us, though he has a lot to prove. He'd be a legit diamond in the rough.."
We can do the same about Josh Allen, SJ, and others who did not have great offer sheets. Or, we can trust the staff. Rather than get verklempt about recruiting, I will trust the evaluation of the staff.
"Benny Snell has offers from BC and Iowa, and then a bunch of non-P5 schools. The issue is probably his speed. Maybe we will see confirmation in his status by some more prominent schools offering late, but he is just a three star and the system and coaches today really seem to know how to evaluate. Nationally, he just did not have very high value offers. Looking at his offer list, its only going to get harder for him in the SEC. There's reasons why he doesn't have a ton offers. I hope he ends up being good for us, though he has a lot to prove. He'd be a legit diamond in the rough.."
We can do the same about Josh Allen, SJ, and others who did not have great offer sheets. Or, we can trust the staff. Rather than get verklempt about recruiting, I will trust the evaluation of the staff.
I weighed 158 pounds at graduation, but I was wirey. I had a vertical of about 20 inches. . . . now I don't just jump for no reason.
I hope you're wrong!
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