Roger Ayers
- Thread starter Wonky
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I was there in person last night and even the Clemson fan who sat next to me was a bit sheepish after a couple of Roger Ayers calls (or no-calls) went their way. I had hoped that his apparent issue with us was really with Calipari - I guess not, because we seemed to be fighting against him all night.
Shieffelin can't jump three inches off the floor. this fat ass dough boy, got away with shoves in the back using his fat ass belly to body you and coming over the back not one foul was called on him not one talking about officiating Malpractice
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I am not a spread bettor, but I will tell you this much: if UK is playing a road game in which Ayers is one of the officials, and our opponent is getting plus odds on the moneyline, that is a great value and you should bet it. That isn’t my opinion — it’s a mathematical fact.
I see people don’t like I posted the FT statistics. It was a response to a comment above.
Obviously, I am Kentucky fan first but this should not make us completely paranoid about all the referees. I can guarantee that majority of referees are decent guys just like majority of the Kentucky fans and our society in general .
I maintain my previous statement that Ayers had a decent game. Lee Cassell and Bill Covington they were inconsistent on calls and I can think at least 2 situations for each of them when the blew the call on their personal coverage area. As a matter of fact, Ayers, toward the end of the game when game was on the line, went out his area of coverage area to call a held ball where Covington had his feast up indicating he will call a faul ( probably) on UK just like he did before on Brea when he had clearly the option to call a held ball.
You can make the case that Cassell and Covington made some inconsistent calls but overall that’s not what cause our loss.
Obviously, I am Kentucky fan first but this should not make us completely paranoid about all the referees. I can guarantee that majority of referees are decent guys just like majority of the Kentucky fans and our society in general .
I maintain my previous statement that Ayers had a decent game. Lee Cassell and Bill Covington they were inconsistent on calls and I can think at least 2 situations for each of them when the blew the call on their personal coverage area. As a matter of fact, Ayers, toward the end of the game when game was on the line, went out his area of coverage area to call a held ball where Covington had his feast up indicating he will call a faul ( probably) on UK just like he did before on Brea when he had clearly the option to call a held ball.
You can make the case that Cassell and Covington made some inconsistent calls but overall that’s not what cause our loss.
Ayers has also never swallowed his whistle on an opportunity to T up a coach or player….until last night. Ball slammed out of frustration is almost always an auto T for any ref…especially “show time” refs that like making it about them like Ayers, Shows, Adams etc.
His instinct was to go for the whistle and call it and then he restrained himself. That was a critical point in the game where 2 freethrows and the ball could have flipped it and screwed up all the hard work the crew had done to keep the game “under control” and where they wanted it
The fact you’ve officiated and think that “even free throws means a well reffed and balanced game” says everything. It’s that thinking that causes poorly officiated games.
If one teams strategy is to hack and grab and body check everything and they commit 100 foul opportunities throughout the game and are whistled for 20. And the other team plays a cleaner game only committing 50 foul opportunities and is whistled for 20… and teams shoot similar FTs….that isn’t a consistent/well officiated game. It’s lopsided.
There isn’t a single person that thinks or can argue in good faith that Kentucky was the more physical team or initiated more contact last night. Yet they were called for 20 fouls to Clemson 15. Butler and Oweh who are known for defending without fouling both had early foul trouble and were limited. Clemson shot more 3s than we did so we were just as aggressive at going to the rim.
You can also make fouls look even while controlling the type of fouls called. Shooting fouls vs evening it uk with meaningless non shooting fouls the other way.
You should read “Personal Foul—Tim Donaghy”. (Ref that took the fall for the NBA ref scandal). He goes into how easy it is to make it look even and completely control the spread and outcome. And it’s largely based on exactly what we are speaking about here. The only way to beat it if the fix is in is to get hot at the right time where you blow it open enough that it would have to be obvious to reel it back in. But a back and forth game, it just takes less than 5-10 possessions throughout the length of the game.
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The one where the clemson guard grabbed/arm-barred Butler's arm (2nd foul??) and tackled him on what should have been a rebound and runout for UK was criminal! Ridiculous and inept officiating on that one. It sat our starting PG who was +17 +/- in 19 min. How can anyone argue that doesn't effect the outcome of a game? Especially when Butler's replacement (Kerr) was -23 +/- in 21min! Look at that call alone---and tell me how that call was made against Butler.
Thinking even free throws means good officiating and thinking Ayers is one of the best in the business tells me you've got a bad brain so I can't trust anything you say on any other topic.
First fault on Butler, he extends the arm on a box out the Clemson number 11 who grabs him and pulls him down. Fault happened in the grey area of coverage more towards the trail official Convington who makes the call and decides that he will sanction Butler for his extended arm . My opinion that was bad judgment call made by Covington considering how he did not sanction the same infraction consistently during the game.
First fault on Carr , correct call made by Covington since Carr hits the arm of Clemson 0.
Immediately next possession Butler drives i deep into the paint , stops and forces number 0 from Clemson to fault him, shoots the ball and made the 2 points, infraction happens in the paint, area of coverage for lead official Covington who does not make the call. Ayers from trail possession has good visibility because of the match ups of players were and the boxing in by the officials and though is not his PCA, jumps in and makes the right call : count the basket and awards Butler a FT.
Now that shows that Ayers understands how the game should be officiated and balanced the questionable call from Covington on the first fault on Butler.
There more examples and Ayers made the right call and Covington and Cassell were not consistent.
There are no perfect referees but this was not a game that Ayers destroyed. If have to blame someone from the crew you will have a better case on some the calls or non calls made by Covington and Cassell.
Immediately next possession Butler drives i deep into the paint , stops and forces number 0 from Clemson to fault him, shoots the ball and made the 2 points, infraction happens in the paint, area of coverage for lead official Covington who does not make the call. Ayers from trail possession has good visibility because of the match ups of players were and the boxing in by the officials and though is not his PCA, jumps in and makes the right call : count the basket and awards Butler a FT.
Now that shows that Ayers understands how the game should be officiated and balanced the questionable call from Covington on the first fault on Butler.
There more examples and Ayers made the right call and Covington and Cassell were not consistent.
There are no perfect referees but this was not a game that Ayers destroyed. If have to blame someone from the crew you will have a better case on some the calls or non calls made by Covington and Cassell.
No one will make me believe that big goofball banged around, got 20 boards and ZERO FOULS. I call BS.
No , but watch at 18:00 11 from Clemson being slightly pushed by Oweh when he is going up for a layup and no call by Ayers because he didn’t consider the contact being sufficient to create a disadvantage. A Clemson fan could argue that one.
Watched the 17:39 where number 4 from Clemson after missing his shot though is fault by both Carr and a Oweh no calls from Ayers or Cassell ( a Clemson fan could argue that) he goes for rebound and slightly with one foot probably touches the end line. Ayers catches on that and blows the whistle in favor of UK to the disbelief of Clemson number 4.
I could go play by play and we get the same conclusion: Ayers had a good game, Covington and Cassell had a bad game . Clemson played a good game , Kentucky played a bad game.
I think our team would benefit more from positive criticism after poor performance and support during the game , than trying to bail them out by putting our team shortcomings on the refs.
Yes, I am sure he could got away with some. But so did Kerr Kriisa who also finished with 0 faults.
I will give you one more and I am done 17:26 butler drives he gets pushed by number 11 on his way to the basket. Covington as a center official and the play was generated from his area shroud have gotten. He decided not to call it. Same play , same referee position Ayers calls it for Butler and Covington does not.
You can argue that Clemson should got some faults on Carr he uses two hands on defense because he is not quick enough on his lateral movement , on Robinson for extending his arms and pushing the defense off to make space because he does not have a handle , etc…
Show me a game where you have perfect referees or the players makes all the shots.
Regardless, it’s a bad idea to argue even with arguments with BBN after a loss on how the referee did a good or bad job… I learnt my lesson.
You can argue that Clemson should got some faults on Carr he uses two hands on defense because he is not quick enough on his lateral movement , on Robinson for extending his arms and pushing the defense off to make space because he does not have a handle , etc…
Show me a game where you have perfect referees or the players makes all the shots.
Regardless, it’s a bad idea to argue even with arguments with BBN after a loss on how the referee did a good or bad job… I learnt my lesson.
Should have known it was a loss, didn’t realize he was calling that game. He’s fracking terrible. Like it is ridiculous he can even call our games.
We had that second half steal with a runout, I think it was Butler, Robinson up top, and maybe Oweh on the other side. Butler got mugged and they got the ball back with no call. Guaranteed foul on us if we did that.
Kriisa’s not 6’8” 240 pounds. The big goon was knocking people out of the way all night. No fouls, BS!
That’s a new concept let’s call faults based on how many lbs and inches we have .
Looks like Rogers is having another great game at UNC.
Last time when I talked to him was right after that Coach K retired. He probably was the ref with most unc and Duke games and last year he finally got his final four game. He got a great career and I he is very down to earth and hard working despite the gel in the hair.
Last time when I talked to him was right after that Coach K retired. He probably was the ref with most unc and Duke games and last year he finally got his final four game. He got a great career and I he is very down to earth and hard working despite the gel in the hair.
I don’t come over here much. Now I see why. We didn’t lose because of Roger Ayers. We lost because we didn’t make shots and had 10 or 11 assist and 12+ turnovers good lord guys we played like shit and almost still won.
As a fan for probably 45 years or so I am going to say it’s Kentucky not just the Coaches. It’s been bad as long as I can remember.
Surprised he didn’t try to rig that game. Guess he doesn’t like UNC as well?For a Roger Ayers “fans” he is tonight at UNC vs Alabama.
Go back and watch the UofK Duke Lattener stump game. Then watch the Higgins UNC game and you’ll buy.
Yes. But just know FT attempts very often don’t tell the whole story. Or much of it if there are several missed calls on fouls.
FT’s obviously only tell us about some of the calls made.
This above. Can refs influence a game…sure. But great teams still find a way to win. FTs and open threes didn’t fall. We got beat by the home team. We move on…
We played like crap and the calls were one sided. Both things can be true. College officiating has tilted to the home team since the start of the game. There's a reason people call it Rape Arena. Cheatum Hall. On the Joe and Denny Show Denny Crump once joked about UK's 1-3-1-3 defense at Rupp. You should hear Duke and UNC fans bitch about the other team's paid off refs.
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