Return to Office

[LineSkiCat14]

I don't mean any disrespect, lot of good thoughts on here, but tbh, this thread is depressing to me. Seems like a whole lot of people are happy sitting by themselves working in isolation. Last thing I think this world needs is lots more people alone staring at a computer screen all day long. Sort of like Napoleon Dynamite on a national or world wide scale.

I think the people who want to be around others will find ways to do it in their PERSONAL lives. Most of us don't need to keep our social skills up by talking to fellow coworkers. I'm able to go to the gym on my lunch and take walks around the neighborhood on breaks. I talk to plenty of people during that time.

I've had staff at my company ask me IT questions while I'm holding my junk in the urinal. I've been bothered on my lunch break. I've even been approached after work hours when I've seen staff members in public.

Now granted, that's a unique employment position. Not everyone's job here is to provide a service to the internal staff. But, that IS part of what I do.. and if I never stepped back in the office, it would be too soon.

I'd rather talk to my mailman than talk to Susan from accounting. Not to mention, we all now have to tip toe around every single thing we say in an office.

No thanks.

 

[entropy13]

Yep, all of that. And my own damn bathroom 30 ft away. And I could go there without interruption and have 10 minutes of peace.

 

[sammysdad05]

DOGE cant get here soon enough.

Yep Daddy Elon is always right

 

[AmericanDragon]

DOGE cant get here soon enough.

Ah yes, the efficiency department with two heads. Classic sign of efficiency!

 

[Ron Mehico]

Ah yes, the efficiency department with two heads. Classic sign of efficiency!

Do you not agree that the government is too bloated and inefficient or do you just think that the people tasked to do it won’t do it or won’t do it well?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Here's perk #78 of WFH: if you're sick, you don't havs to take a PTO/Sick day like you would if you worked in the office. Just roll out of bed, put on a robe, and sign in.. no need to get dressed, commute in or feel pressured to stay home so you don't infect others. You could also sneak a nap on your lunch break

 

[sammysdad05]

Here's perk #78 of WFH: if you're sick, you don't havs to take a PTO/Sick day like you would if you worked in the office. Just roll out of bed, put on a robe, and sign in.. no need to get dressed, commute in or feel pressured to stay home so you don't infect others. You could also sneak a nap on your lunch break

But Elon says we’re all inefficient!!!! I mean you can’t be efficient unless we’re all sitting together in one place right? You can’t be efficient unless you completed your long commute to work right?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

But Elon says we’re all inefficient!!!! I mean you can’t be efficient unless we’re all sitting together in one place right? You can’t be efficient unless you completed your long commute to work right?

Well, there are certainly going to be slackers. That's the problem here. Some workers can do this anywhere.. other workers literally need to have their boss next to them.

Ill tell you this, it's certainly a mix on my team. I have one worker who is probably putting in 5-10 hours a week. One day she told me she went to a double movie during the day. Not much I can do, I'm not her boss. Shockingly, "she" cut off her dick and is basically unfire-able. But that's another story for another day.

 

[sammysdad05]

Well, there are certainly going to be slackers. That's the problem here. Some workers can do this anywhere.. other workers literally need to have their boss next to them.

Ill tell you this, it's certainly a mix on my team. I have one worker who is probably putting in 5-10 hours a week. One day she told me she went to a double movie during the day. Not much I can do, I'm not her boss. Shockingly, "she" cut off her dick and is basically unfire-able. But that's another story for another day.

The same people who are “slacking” during WFH were slacking in the office too. Long lunches, sleeping at their desk pretending to work. It’s a tale as old as time. But now the rest of us can be more efficient since we don’t have those slackers walking by our cubicles 10 times a day telling us dumb stories and complaining about work. No one can justify having to get rid of WFH other than saying stuff that Elon tells them like “the government doesn’t actually do any work” or “it’s more efficient being in the office because I can see you and I’m already paying for this office building anyways”.

 

[sammysdad05]

I put a link in the first message when I started the thread. Here is another

Musk purchased Twitter in 2022 for $44 Billion. It is now worth around $9 Billion. They have lost almost 100 million active daily users and are barely hanging on to being one of the top 20 most used social media platforms behind several you have never heard of. That is not a model for success. It also doesn't apply to the federal government because is it not a business. Government's job isn't to grow business or to turn a profit. It is there to serve its citizens and trying to make it look more like corporate America is not the way to meet that goal.

They can’t grasp this concept. Twitter is awful now, has been for a long time now. Elon ruined it. He’s a smart guy but Twitter was way better off without him.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

The same people who are “slacking” during WFH were slacking in the office too. Long lunches, sleeping at their desk pretending to work. It’s a tale as old as time. But now the rest of us can be more efficient since we don’t have those slackers walking by our cubicles 10 times a day telling us dumb stories and complaining about work. No one can justify having to get rid of WFH other than saying stuff that Elon tells them like “the government doesn’t actually do any work” or “it’s more efficient being in the office because I can see you and I’m already paying for this office building anyways”.

Idk about sleeping at the desk. But yes, that's a fair point. Slackers still find a way to do it at work. I guess the difference there is that slacking at the office is much harder to pull off, and I'd argue that even a slacker still needs to be a little more productive at work.

Also, relax on the Elon hate. Your party was falling over each other to buy his cars before you learned he didn't agree with your politics. It's far from just Elon pushing this.. its 90% of owners, execs and micromanagers across the globe. You guys really have to be a little more discrete when it comes to praising guys like Musk/Zuckerberg one day, and then trying to tell us their idiots the next. To me, they've always been brilliant but psychotic and possibly on the spectrum.. but my thoughts never changed on them because of their politics.

 

[bbonds]

Remote meetings are like a million times better than in-person meetings.

Almost nothing that happens in our work meetings is applicable to me but required to attend. Some people work at satellite clinics so they have to join via Teams. So I just join via Teams and get work done while I have it on in the background instead of wasting my time sitting in a conference room.

And this right here is why returning to the "office" is dumb. 100% of our meetings are via Teams. If we were to go back to the office, where hardly anyone has an actual office with a door that you can close, you wouldn't be able to focus or hear anything in said meetings. Karen and Sally walking up and down the hall behind you talking about their kids, loudly of course. Absolutely nothing that I do has to be done in an office. This "perk" is worth a lot of money, and it's not taxed.

Not to mention, my employer sold a lot of office buildings during COVID. We're never going back and I'm not mad at all.

🤷‍♂️

 

[WTF Cat]

Ah yes, the efficiency department with two head.

Are you really that stupid? Wait... never mind... your response already told me... thanks!

 

[WayneDougan]

Most of Elon's companies are involved in engineering. That's a be on site type of job.

 

[AmericanDragon]

Do you not agree that the government is too bloated and inefficient or do you just think that the people tasked to do it won’t do it or won’t do it well?

Can’t I just think all three are true?

 

[AmericanDragon]

Are you really that stupid? Wait... never mind... your response already told me... thanks!

Sorry, I don’t speak dipshit. Please post your replies in English or a language I can at least toss into Google Translate.

 

[Ron Mehico]

Can’t I just think all three are true?

You sure can. I just think it’s interesting to have someone come in from the outside and say the government is bloated and we’re going to try and make it more efficient. Just can’t recall that happening before and I personally think it’s a noble cause. I’m currently reading a book called the rational optimist and he makes a really compelling argument that humans, left to their own devices, naturally prosper and excel. The main hindrance, and he sites example after example all the way from the stone ages to the Dutch in 1670 to the Ming Dynasty in 1200 to the British Empire in 1950 is monopolies. And the only consistent monopolies we’ve had in our societies are governments. And they consistently lead to the downfall of specific empires/countries when they become too large and bloated.

Interestingly another consistent hindrance to prosperity is tariffs and he sites examples over and over again about those destroying economies. I just think the actual goal of making the government more efficient is a great one, so I’m excited to see it play out. If nothing else it might be eye opening to see just how much government waste there is.

 

[WayneDougan]

The Federal Govt is so big because when our shit stain politicians let jobs go to China, India and Mexico, they needed to find something else for people in America to do at non-3rd world wages.

 

[Ron Mehico]

The Federal Govt is so big because when our shit stain politicians let jobs go to China, India and Mexico, they needed to find something else for people in America to do at non-3rd world wages.

Actually in that book I’m reading he does a nice job illustrating how jobs in other countries actually cause both economies to do better. For example the Nike sweatshops in Vietnam actually paid three times the wages that other national Vietnamese factories paid significantly improving the standard of living in Vietnam while allowing Americans to take on other higher paying non factory work resulting in a net positive for both countries. What he refers to as “specialization” among humans and the hallmark of our advancing society and species away from self sufficient hunter gatherers.

 

[ukalum01]

Companies already have a good idea on who are the underperforming front line employees. In general, WFH policies have identified poor management moreso than poor front line.

 

[WayneDougan]

Actually in that book I’m reading he does a nice job illustrating how jobs in other countries actually cause both economies to do better. For example the Nike sweatshops in Vietnam actually paid three times the wages that other national Vietnamese factories paid significantly improving the standard of living in Vietnam while allowing Americans to take on other higher paying non factory work resulting in a net positive for both countries. What he refers to as “specialization” among humans and the hallmark of our advancing society and species away from self sufficient hunter gatherers.

That's the David Ricardo theory which has been gospel in econ professor circles. It's bullshit in the age we're in - especially in regards with China and India.

We are moving engineering and super high tech jobs to China and India. It is freeing our people up to work in pot dispensaries.

 

[Ron Mehico]

That's the David Ricardo theory which has been gospel in econ professor circles. It's bullshit in the age we're in - especially in regards with China and India.

We are moving engineering and super high tech jobs to China and India. It is freeing our people up to work in pot dispensaries.

I mean it’s based on thousands of years of examples and evidence. Literally since the stone ages. Just countless and countless examples. Humans, left on their own devices without oppressive governments, naturally find ways to keep getting more efficient and improving. You’re saying only now we have high tech jobs but in 300 AD the glass makers in Italy were considered extremely high tech trading with silk makers in China. I mean maybe 2025 is different from anytime from 10,000 BC to now but I doubt it.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I put a link in the first message when I started the thread. Here is another

Musk purchased Twitter in 2022 for $44 Billion. It is now worth around $9 Billion. They have lost almost 100 million active daily users and are barely hanging on to being one of the top 20 most used social media platforms behind several you have never heard of. That is not a model for success. It also doesn't apply to the federal government because is it not a business. Government's job isn't to grow business or to turn a profit. It is there to serve its citizens and trying to make it look more like corporate America is not the way to meet that goal.

That makes no sense. Has Musk done secondaries at $9 billion? Trump launched a shitcoin last night worth over $9 billion now.

Musk buying X may lead to a trillion dollars of wealth to him alone when you look at what he’s accomplished.

Running government like a business, not like a parasite with a bottomless budget is the way to serve the citizenry.

 

[Blue-ish]

Some people thrive on WFH. Some people absolutely suck at it.

It depends.
It depends upon the job and the employee.
There is not a cookie cutter answer.

 

[bbonds]

Musk isn’t losing money. 😂😂😂

 

[Tskware]

Actually in that book I’m reading he does a nice job illustrating how jobs in other countries actually cause both economies to do better. For example the Nike sweatshops in Vietnam actually paid three times the wages that other national Vietnamese factories paid significantly improving the standard of living in Vietnam while allowing Americans to take on other higher paying non factory work resulting in a net positive for both countries. What he refers to as “specialization” among humans and the hallmark of our advancing society and species away from self sufficient hunter gatherers.

Musk sort of agreed with that on the Joe Rogan podcast I listened to - said he was not a big fan of tariffs for reasons listed above.

 

[Perrin75]

That makes no sense. Has Musk done secondaries at $9 billion? Trump launched a shitcoin last night worth over $9 billion now.

Musk buying X may lead to a trillion dollars of wealth to him alone when you look at what he’s accomplished.

Running government like a business, not like a parasite with a bottomless budget is the way to serve the citizenry.

Musk took Twitter private when he bought it so we don't know exactly what its value is. What we do have are the numbers that Fidelity put out in their last Fiscal report. Based on the value that Fidelity reported on their stock holdings in twitter in their financial disclosures it was worth around $9 billion dollars resulting in a massive business loss for Musk.

As for running the government like a business, that simply doesn't happen. A business has one specific goal, to make a profit. That is not, and should never be, the goal of government. We have been hearing this pipe dream for decades and there is never any evidence to support any benefit that has been provided by outsourcing government responsibilities to the private sector. If that were the case, we should have seen government spending reduced and services improved. Where has that happened?

Also, if we compare government services to private we see a huge difference in their missions/mandates. UPS and the USPS both deliver mail/packages. However, UPS will only deliver mail if it makes financial sense for them to do it. Meanwhile, USPS has a mandate to deliver mail to every American whether it makes financial sense or not. It is a core tenant that was written into the constitution. No matter where you live in the US, the post office will get you the mail. UPS doesn't give a damn unless it leads to profit.

We also run into conflict of interests by privatizing. If my job is to provide food services to soldiers in a combat zone, I only make money if a combat zone exists. Which leads to companies lobbying members of the government to push the US into combat situations so they can get paid on these huge contracts.

There is a reason a public and private sector exists. Pretending that one can operate like the other is nothing but fan fiction sold to constituents to convince them to vote a certain way.

 

[cole854]

As for running the government like a business, that simply doesn't happen. A business has one specific goal, to make a profit. That is not, and should never be, the goal of government. We have been hearing this pipe dream for decades and there is never any evidence to support any benefit that has been provided by outsourcing government responsibilities to the private sector. If that were the case, we should have seen government spending reduced and services improved. Where has that happened?


There is a reason a public and private sector exists. Pretending that one can operate like the other is nothing but fan fiction sold to constituents to convince them to vote a certain way.

You're over analyzing the government/business statement. When you try to eliminate the red tape and the political influence when it comes to the economic outlook of our country, that is essentially running it like a business....pro-capitalism, pro-growth, etc. It isn't about the government making money per your definition....it's about the country and it's citizens.

Your second statement is typical political nonsense. They can and do co-exist.

 

[MegaBlue05]

I don't mean any disrespect, lot of good thoughts on here, but tbh, this thread is depressing to me. Seems like a whole lot of people are happy sitting by themselves working in isolation. Last thing I think this world needs is lots more people alone staring at a computer screen all day long. Sort of like Napoleon Dynamite on a national or world wide scale.

I think your assumption doesn’t account for the existence of introverts. Ask any introverted person out there if they’d rather work by themselves at home or go work in an office for 40 hours a week with people they consider acquaintances who never stop talking, and I can guarantee you which one they will choose.

My company offered full time remote to all employees in 2023. Everyone on my team but one guy took it. This dude goes to the office daily and hinted that he thinks all of us should go back in. This is the same guy whose mouth never closes and we can’t end our virtual meetings on time because ole buddy won’t stop talking.

For you, remote work seems like isolation. For me, remote work is solitude. It’s all a matter of perspective by personality type. I’m sure extroverted people think introverted people are weird or antisocial, like introverted people think extroverted people are a little much to be around constantly.

 

[WayneDougan]

I don't mean any disrespect, lot of good thoughts on here, but tbh, this thread is depressing to me. Seems like a whole lot of people are happy sitting by themselves working in isolation. Last thing I think this world needs is lots more people alone staring at a computer screen all day long. Sort of like Napoleon Dynamite on a national or world wide scale.

Well during Covid I wasn’t alone. I was with my wife, kids and dog. Plus, when I’m doing WFH I’m on zoom calls with my buds from work all day (who I generally like). So it didn’t really feel like I was alone.

That said, I did feel bad for our new hires who were in their early 20’s and alone.

 

[*CatinIL*]

Why do at home what you can do at work.

 

[Tskware]

We didn't have the problem of uninvited conversations becoming obnoxious (used to call them Time Vampires), almost everyone I worked with kept their nose to the grindstone when they were in the office, so I honestly did not have that problem.

Except I did have one employee who bugged the crap out of me (and everyone else she worked with) by asking 1000 questions a day, one at a time, never all at once. You would tell her "just make a call, we can discuss in detail later", but that never satisfied her, she could not proceed without a direct answer to the question of the half hour. Now to be fair to some of the WFH advocates, she especially got on my very last nerve.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Musk took Twitter private when he bought it so we don't know exactly what its value is. What we do have are the numbers that Fidelity put out in their last Fiscal report. Based on the value that Fidelity reported on their stock holdings in twitter in their financial disclosures it was worth around $9 billion dollars resulting in a massive business loss for Musk.

As for running the government like a business, that simply doesn't happen. A business has one specific goal, to make a profit. That is not, and should never be, the goal of government. We have been hearing this pipe dream for decades and there is never any evidence to support any benefit that has been provided by outsourcing government responsibilities to the private sector. If that were the case, we should have seen government spending reduced and services improved. Where has that happened?

Also, if we compare government services to private we see a huge difference in their missions/mandates. UPS and the USPS both deliver mail/packages. However, UPS will only deliver mail if it makes financial sense for them to do it. Meanwhile, USPS has a mandate to deliver mail to every American whether it makes financial sense or not. It is a core tenant that was written into the constitution. No matter where you live in the US, the post office will get you the mail. UPS doesn't give a damn unless it leads to profit.

We also run into conflict of interests by privatizing. If my job is to provide food services to soldiers in a combat zone, I only make money if a combat zone exists. Which leads to companies lobbying members of the government to push the US into combat situations so they can get paid on these huge contracts.

There is a reason a public and private sector exists. Pretending that one can operate like the other is nothing but fan fiction sold to constituents to convince them to vote a certain way.

Comparing Fidelity’s value of an ultra slim minority interest with no market to a publicly traded security, is not apples to apples. Claiming X couldn’t sell today for the same value as a shitcoin Trump launched over the weekend is crazy. Musk could take it public today for far more than $9 billion, or probably flip it to a group of people who preferred pre-Musk X for much more than what he paid.

Healthcare, college education, housing, defense, etc. All areas with heavy federal government involvement. All areas where things continuously get worse and more expensive, while industries without heavy handed fed involvement get better.

Just because the USPS has to deliver everywhere doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have to do it as cheaply and efficiently as possible. Etc.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

I think your assumption doesn’t account for the existence of introverts. Ask any introverted person out there if they’d rather work by themselves at home or go work in an office for 40 hours a week with people they consider acquaintances who never stop talking, and I can guarantee you which one they will choose.

My company offered full time remote to all employees in 2023. Everyone on my team but one guy took it. This dude goes to the office daily and hinted that he thinks all of us should go back in. This is the same guy whose mouth never closes and we can’t end our virtual meetings on time because ole buddy won’t stop talking.

For you, remote work seems like isolation. For me, remote work is solitude. It’s all a matter of perspective by personality type. I’m sure extroverted people think introverted people are weird or antisocial, like introverted people think extroverted people are a little much to be around constantly.

Yes, but please don't judge all extroverts by that one guy.

 

[rudd1]

-I think some of y'all are confusing introvert with misanthrope.

^I'm an introvert. I need to recharge after social interaction by being alone. Introverts and shut-ins are not the same.

-I'm sure some low/mid level operational stuff is just as effective(maybe more) when performed by wfh folks. So who knows... prolly industry specific.