By your logic, if Bryant would have stayed at uk then UT's rivalry w bama would also have changed and to our betterment. Bryant also never beat General Neyland , at uk or bama. I have said all along that uk 's program has progressed tremendously in the last little bit. Kudos. Still, uk has risen above the Vanderbilt's, south Carolina's, etc and really have been on par w UT ( since you have to factor in head to head- in our historic low period). My point is that UT historically has been 1 of top 3 teams in sec- look at the records and championships . I just think that our ceiling is winning the conference and playing for titles, while it's is uk's ceiling to play -once in a while - for division titles. Am I wrong?
Ranking the overall strength of SEC East programs
- Thread starter JRowland
- Start date
Yes. History does not define the future, and just because you were once an elite program doesn't mean you return to being one. UT is not alone in it's fall from grace - take a look at once power houses USC, UCLA, Nebraska, Texas, Miami etc. and how far they have fallen. OTOH look at the rise of perennial cellar dweller teams like Oregon, Washington, and Baylor that have achieved a lot of success lately - even mighty Clemson was at best a mid-tier ACC team for decades.
Human nature loves certainty and hates uncertainty but football is nearly impossible to predict with any accuracy, the more you try the more you get it wrong, but IMO that uncertainty is in essence what really makes the game fun.
You make some very good points and I agree with the gist of it. However, reality says that programs like UT , Nebraska, Miami, Texas, etc. will have a much easier time at returning to their status as opposed to programs like uk's - it is just the reality. Their fanbases , administrations, past players, etc will not allow too much ,mediocrity. It kind of reminds me of UK's time with Billy Gillispe. How long did the fanbases put up with that ? AND also how long did it take for uk to return to prominence? And I know basketball and football are different but the gist is the same.
I’ll take exception to Nebraska. The B10 move has changed things.
I will say that although uk has a ways to go in the SEC arms race—I don’t think our admin and fans are going to allow us to slip into obscurity in football. Too much momentum and a taste of success (bowl wins over PSU, VPI etc) won’t allow it.
I always thought UK should have been kicked out of the SEC due to their lack of commitment in football. Basketball doesn’t even register. Hopefully we learned our lesson hiring horrible ADs like CM Newton and Cliff Hagan
Yall dont get to cry about having to play Bama every year. We all have permanent cross divisional opponents instead of rotating SPECIFICALLY because Alabama/Tennessee and Georgia/Auburn refuse to give up their annual game. You dont like it, tough shit. Youre the reason you have them every year, not us.
Great points and I agree with everything you said. I hadn't thought about the move of Nebraska to the big 10 but that does make sense. Also, Miami's move to the ACc has hurt them- although it should have.
All those program including Tennessee have gone through seemingly an endless stream of coaching changes over the last several years without a lot to show for it. At some point you have to wonder. But I think if you are a UT fan you have to be a bit optimistic about Pruitt, I mean you could not have possible started a season off worse than you did in 2019 but they vastly improved as the season goes on, still he has a lot to prove yet.
The wildcard in the whole thing is the evolution of college football in general, I think the information age has so totally changed recruiting and now you add the transfer rule on top of that, it has served to level the playing field a lot and given lesser programs the change to compete more on an even basis with the traditional powers.
I am not complaining at all about the permanent cross division in bama- just pointing out the obvious that in our 10 year historic low and their historic 10 year high- that game is pretty much a guaranteed loss for us. I really would not trade that rivalry at all b/c historically it has meant so much, and except for a few exceptions of years ( current 10 included) , we have held our own against bama. Before Saban's arrival, there was a stretch where we went 9-0-1 against them.
I agree with everything here, especially about the coaching changes in particular. Also, administratively it is so important as well. I saw a stat one time and it said that since 2001 , there had been 13 changes in UT's administrations (ADs and presidents) . No consistency and no stability top down has really hurt UTs football program.
Then what is/has been your problem? Your record(s) sure don't show it by a long shot.
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Miami's move to the ACC has hurt them? The Big East brought it on themselves. Actually, Miami, along with four (?) other schools, joining the Big East, launching a 1-A football conference, and subsequently creating constant issues under the surface between the "football" and "basketball" schools is what ultimately led to the conference's downfall. So what exactly should Miami have done differently? Which conference should they have joined? The SEC?
Now, had you said Miami has never fully recovered from Butch Davis's departure, I would totally agree. And I do mean Butch Davis because Larry Coker inherited that '01 team. Their current struggles on the football field have nothing to do with moving to the ACC. Miami is a small private school. They just as easily could have ended up like UCONN had they not joined the ACC. And if something happened to the ACC, Miami would be at best about the fifth school to be targeted by another P5 conference. Honestly, with the right coach, they should be competing for the Coastal every season. They really kinda have it made in the ACC.
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I don't know which site you're looking at but I'd bet Tennessee has had maybe a couple top 10 classes over the past decade and those were probably before Pruitt took over. According to 247 composite, you have one 4 star and like nine 3 stars so far in this years class with an average player rating of 0.85. There's still plenty of time before NSD, but that's not exactly burning up the trail. I don't feel like there's a huge difference between UT and UK recruiting. It'll come down to QB play and coaching.
I guess my point on Miami and the acc is that I thought that they would have much better success than they have experienced this far. The op seems to agree with me on that point. As far UT and uk recruiting, I think UT will again get a top ten and at worst a top 15 class in this cycle. Ky will lag behind somewhat (top 20 at best, top 30 at worst). The difference now, as opposed to Butch's classes, is that I think we have a staff that will develop players. Honestly, except for a few players during Butch's tenure, players never developed or regressed, and I think that can be backed up by player stories during that time and the overall record he incurred.
Yeah, I'm sure your coaches planned on being behind with a few minutes to go, the onside kick was a sure thing, but ended up being good by a few inches. You only had the ball 12 minutes against us, lol.
We will have a normal offense next year, you won't be able to stack the box. Just hope we have a next year.
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You are just out of date, now we have almost as good a talent as you and a MUCH better coaching staff, both evaluating talent and coaching it. Why do you think we had two 6.0 transfers come in, the word is getting out, UK isn't just a basketball school now.
Right.
But I am still waiting for the one thing done for football above the bare minimum from 2002 until the strike and the SEC obscene money rolling in. Our AD had no choice but to throw money at football after the terrible shape we were allowed to sink to.
No problem at all now, money to burn.
Pruitt finds a lot of guys before this site does. Kirby’s best player since being at UGA was a guy Pruitt found that no one else really offered (Deandre Baker). Dude grinds in the film room. Found Jimmy Callaway and Jalin Hyatt early. Hell yall were begging Jimmy to come be Lynn Bowden part 2. But he doesn’t want to play in a gimmick offense. Tennessee will probably finish at least 10 spots ahead of y’all again. Butch ran off a ton of talent from those inflated top 10 classes. They had 30+ kids in them. Pruitt isn’t allowed to sign over 25 kids a class because of guys like Butch.
Keep telling yourself how great ut will be, but reality might be,probably much different!
Were either of those 6.0 transfers a starter like ours (Cade Mays) was? I don’t think so. There are bust all the time. There’s a reason schools like UF, UGA, LSU, and others didn’t look at Gatewood. He was begging Mullen to let him come visit. Kid throws a duck. Got beat out by a true freshman for a reason. Start beating us and you can evaluate our talent.
NE lost 4 games in both their last 3 seasons in B12 & first 3 seasons in B1G. They hadn't been a national power since 2001. Net, B1G didn't change things.
I'm a Heels fan. You aren't finishing ahead of us this year in 247 composite. You would literally have to sign all 4 and/or 5 stars with your remaining scholarships to finish in the top 10. I know this is hard for you but UT football isn't what it used to be. But keep talking. Nothing else to do now anyways
Mack’s signing a good class. Let’s see if it sticks. I don’t think Sam will be the darling everyone thinks he is. He reminds me of Adrian Martinez from Nebraska. Freshman stud with a sophomore slump. Not everyone committed now will be in this class. And coaches will have to do a lot more scouting because 247 and Rivals aren’t getting to see these kids live and adjust their ranking. Like Eli Sutton. A lot of SEC schools backed off him after his junior season.
That's funny. Well over half our class had committable offers from Tennessee and you guys aren't finished missing. We wouldn't have taken either of your NC verbals, both of which are outside the top 25 in state. And of course everyone has to make it to NSD. We did last year. As for Howell, after last season, I think we'll take our chances.
We simply have to start beating UT on a more regular basis - that’s all there is to it.
Anyways...I'm not getting in a pissing match over recruiting in April as a guest on another board where I like everyone.
Here's how I view the SEC east:
1. Georgia - Loaded. We'll see if they can turn it into anything, but not really up for debate as division favorites just about every year until someone starts beating them regularly
2. Florida - They have Brewster, now, and should start to accumulate more talent. Decent enough staff I feel like. Should challenge Georgia
3. Tennessee - I would put them here temporarily because they continue to beat their nearest challenger. Recruiting must improve in order for them to beat the teams ahead of them on a consistent basis and I just don't see that happening right now
4. Kentucky - They would be third in my book had they beat the Vols last year. I do feel like they are in the process of surpassing Tennessee. Stoops is simply a better coach in my opinion and has a better eye for talent. Recruiting is close enough to make this a toss up
5. South Carolina - Champ can recruit but is not on the same level as a coach and this class is off to a slow start. I feel like once the talent starts running thin...he's probably done. Make or break year?
6. Missouri - Honestly, I don't know much about them. They beat the Gamecocks last year but I feel like that was more so an opportunistic win. Not sure they recruit on a high enough level to move them up. They're also going through some staff changes so wait and see
7. Vanderbilt - Just not enough talent. Not sure what else to say. Great school
Here's how I view the SEC east:
1. Georgia - Loaded. We'll see if they can turn it into anything, but not really up for debate as division favorites just about every year until someone starts beating them regularly
2. Florida - They have Brewster, now, and should start to accumulate more talent. Decent enough staff I feel like. Should challenge Georgia
3. Tennessee - I would put them here temporarily because they continue to beat their nearest challenger. Recruiting must improve in order for them to beat the teams ahead of them on a consistent basis and I just don't see that happening right now
4. Kentucky - They would be third in my book had they beat the Vols last year. I do feel like they are in the process of surpassing Tennessee. Stoops is simply a better coach in my opinion and has a better eye for talent. Recruiting is close enough to make this a toss up
5. South Carolina - Champ can recruit but is not on the same level as a coach and this class is off to a slow start. I feel like once the talent starts running thin...he's probably done. Make or break year?
6. Missouri - Honestly, I don't know much about them. They beat the Gamecocks last year but I feel like that was more so an opportunistic win. Not sure they recruit on a high enough level to move them up. They're also going through some staff changes so wait and see
7. Vanderbilt - Just not enough talent. Not sure what else to say. Great school
Tennessee outrecruited UF in these last two classes. No ones out recruiting UGA with their budget and the promise to every kid of being that single missing piece until kids just get tired of hearing it like they did at Miami, Ole Miss, and others.
#4. KENTUCKY...agree COULD/SHOULD have beaten Fla & pUKe orange. Would have us @3
You must be relying solely on Rivals. I go by the composite. You're close last two cycles and you don't have to out recruit them...I just feel like you need a little more talent to beat them consistently. Just my opinion
Their 2019 class is trash. Rivals still has the 5 blue chippers who dipped or didn’t qualify before the fall counted. That drops them to low 30s. They’ll probably do ok this year but then that class becomes starters and upper classmen. Same thing happened with Butch’s 3rd class in 2017. It had been gutted by attrition and over signing and it was a 4 win class despite being “top 10”
Gotcha. Well maybe it'll start translating to the field. Your last few games with them really haven't been close which is why I kinda lean towards it being a talent discrepancy. That and Pruitt still kinda being a wildcard is why I feel like you're going to need to recruit better to get over the hump. Just looks like there's more distance between you and them than you and Kentucky as far as how things are trending. But, again, that's just my opinion.
FWIW, North Carolina is in a similar position as Tennessee, and even more so Kentucky, albeit in a weaker conference. There's no reason we should be losing to VaTech. Should've beat them last year. And Miami will probably always have at least a slight edge in talent. Key will be replacing Mack because he's currently accumulating enough talent to overwhelm those two programs but realistically probably only has four or five more years left
I mean last season was a tale of two teams after UGA. Something really clicked for them. No matter if the breaks went against them, they put on more steam. That defense will be even better this year. They were swinging against Bama and landing punches. A bogus unsportsmanlike penalty and JGs 14 point swing TO made that game look more out of hand than it really was. Now I know almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades but I think this team is far more galvanized. That UK game was close because 1) UK was coming off a bye vs Tennessee on a 6 game run and 2) the triple option knockoff that UK was running kept the ball out of UTs hands. They did make the most out of what little TOP they got though. Doubt UK will be able to control the TOP quite like that again.
I don't have to evaluate either one of those two transfers, Rivals has already done it for me. From all reports UK is VERY happy with having both of them, don't know much about our DB but Gatewood was demoted because a FIVE STAR legacy recruit with family ties AND an extra year of eligibility was put ahead of him.
We are used to making do with two and three star QBs, I think our coaches will do even better with a 6.0 QB. And they haven't been doing badly before. should have beat you this year even with our top two QBs out with injuries.
Given by what? Your cheating? Your "Orange Pride did a great job for years but now they have to officially work "under the covers", which is really where they always did their best work for decades anyway.
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The knock on Gatewood is definitely his arm. No argument there but he's still a QB. And he can run. Stoops is a no nonsense guy. Dude doesn't get cute. If something works he doesn't get away from it. I mean look at last year. Gatewood, it's hard to tell, I don't know if he'll turn into anything or not, BUT knowing what we know, I feel like he picked the perfect place to go. They played a WR at QB last year and gave people absolute fits. So I'm not sure I'd be looking forward to facing another athletic runner that's hard to tackle playing QB for them
