Question about soil quality for home gardeners

[ManitouDan]

I live on a bog clay mound , love to garden so I built a big raised garden , like 40-40 , had top soil poured on the clay , it's at least a foot deep . But 1/2 of it is pretty good top soil , 1/2 is more clay content of the top soil. The 1/2 with the clay is pretty hard and didnt grow tomatoes well at all , should I add a load of sand to loosen the soil or try to add a higher quality soil to that side of the garden . I grow tomatoes , different peppers , and okra . And garlic .

 

[the nail at the foul line]

The best material for topsoil is silt loam. Over 90% of the soils in Kentucky have silt loam on the surface. More than likely where you live was scraped beforehand or eroded, leaving what you're describing as clay. Adding sand to that will form a Sandy clay which is not much better than clay. Try to get silt loam topsoil material. Sand may help some but silt loam is far superior.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

 

[ManitouDan]

Thanks Nail .

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Thanks Nail .

The Goldilocks zone for soil moisture is in silt loam. Sands are too dry. Clays are too wet but they do not give up moisture causing them to be droughty. In other words, you can till clays that seem moist and the plants will be twisted from dryness . Silt and silt loam is just right.

Road ditches are typically full of silt. Creek bottoms are silty. Those would be your best sources, unless you're right on the Ohio River where there's thick silt materials in the uplands.

 

[ManitouDan]

The Goldilocks zone for soil moisture is in silt loam. Sands are too dry. Clays are too wet but they do not give up moisture causing them to be droughty. In other words, you can till clays that seem moist and the plants will be twisted from dryness . Silt and silt loam is just right.

Road ditches are typically full of silt. Creek bottoms are silty. Those would be your best sources, unless you're right on the Ohio River where there's thick silt materials in the uplands.

Yeah I'm on the Ohio , maybe I can get someone to scoop up a load

 

[55wildcat]

I trailered in quit a few loads of what they call garden soil. Topsoil, compost, and sand for my above ground garden. Not cheap but a 1000 times better than the clay hard stuff. The very best I have ever had, where I used to live there was woods behind me. I tilled in the woods enough dirt to fill about a 3x20 place for tomatoes. Never added fertilizer or anything for the time I had that there. That may have been the type of soil Nail is referring to.

 

[IkeCat]

Check your PH and what plants PH desire

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Check your PH and what plants PH desire

All fertility needs to be checked as well

Also, walnut trees can harm tomatoes.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Don’t add sand. Amending the clay with compost or good top soil would be better than adding sand. I know no-till is the rage right now, but doing a till to amend that first year is a good idea. Then compost and mulch the area yearly.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

All fertility needs to be checked as well

Also, walnut trees can harm tomatoes.

Walnut trees can harm a lot of undergrowth.

Getting a soil test is a good idea.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Companion planting early on may also be a good idea. Did anything grow in that area prior to you turning it into a garden?

 

[ManitouDan]

Companion planting early on may also be a good idea. Did anything grow in that area prior to you turning it into a garden?

No it was a sloped rocky clay area below my pond , I use the pond for watering , just siphon the water down hill . and I dont even know what companion gardening is . I had 2 dump truck loads of top soil dropped in there , leveled with my tractor .

 

[Caveman Catfan]

No it was a sloped rocky clay area below my pond , I use the pond for watering , just siphon the water down hill . and I dont even know what companion gardening is . I had 2 dump truck loads of top soil dropped in there , leveled with my tractor .

There is a belief that in veggie gardening, monoculture (ex. all tomatoes only) is not as productive as growing other items with the vegetables, such as flowers or other veggies. That is not as important to me as you finding some good plants that do well in clay soils. Growing plants in an area is a great way to improve your soil for that area.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Google AI informs that when companion planting tomatoes in clay soil, consider basil, borage, marigolds, nasturtiums, lettuce, chives, parsley and garlic, as they can thrive in that conditions and will deter pests, while improving the soil health.

Again, amending the soil with organic matter will really help.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I live on a bog clay mound , love to garden so I built a big raised garden , like 40-40 , had top soil poured on the clay , it's at least a foot deep . But 1/2 of it is pretty good top soil , 1/2 is more clay content of the top soil. The 1/2 with the clay is pretty hard and didnt grow tomatoes well at all , should I add a load of sand to loosen the soil or try to add a higher quality soil to that side of the garden . I grow tomatoes , different peppers , and okra . And garlic .

By laying the top soil 12 inches deep above clay, you have created a basin with clay floor. Heavy watering and rain could really saturate your topsoil, as it may not quickly be absorbed by your clay floor. Working organic material into that clay will help drainage and root penetration (yeah, that is what she said).

 

[WillGolf4Food]

Caveman mentioned the first thing needed: have your soil tested. There should be an AG extension office nearby that will do soil testing. A hoop or two and you can get it tested for free.

Have only got about 3 inches of good top soil and then clay. It’s always produced well. But like many gardeners I was looking to increase yield and can’t stand weeding.

Started an experiment years ago. Used the clay base to basically create “clay pots” in the ground. Dug holes about 2 feet in diameter, 2 feet deep, and filled with conditioned soil (I compost and there’s a horse stable nearby with an endless supply of fertilizer).

Took weed guard and placed it between the holes/pots and covered with mulch. Still get some weeds but you can take them out easily since they can’t establish deep roots.

This works really well for vine plants like cantaloupes and watermelons. Before the garden reconfig, was barely getting any cantaloupes and melons. Read how a single vine has both male and female blossoms on them and the pollinators need to have easy access to both. The weeds were creating a barrier.

Tested this by going out and rubbing the blossoms together (at least I put on some Barry White beforehand) and sure enough they started producing. Since the reconfig the cantaloupe and watermelon yield has been impressive.

 

[ManitouDan]

There is a belief that in veggie gardening, monoculture (ex. all tomatoes only) is not as productive as growing other items with the vegetables, such as flowers or other veggies. That is not as important to me as you finding some good plants that do well in clay soils. Growing plants in an area is a great way to improve your soil for that area.

I grew about 6-8 different types of tomatoes , but always have some large juicers and 3-4 Romas for salsa. Plus green/ Yellow peppers / Cayenne , Jalapeños , and some Okra , plus I had 3 marigolds I planted in 3 corners . Small tomatoes KILLED it .. over a 100 on 1 ripe Roma plant this summer .. larger tomatoes were all a bust , I went to Canada for 2 weeks , weeds took over , drought .. only got 1 good picking of 30-40 off 18 plants or so . But I'm not babysitting these things .
Lastly is just adding more topsoil gonna be helpful . At this point I cant really get down to the clay . Dont have a tiller on my tractor , I use a small garden tiller .