You won't find a bigger Kobe fan here but it's borderline indefensible to have him ahead of LeBron.
Paul Pierce doesn't put Lebron in top 5 all time NBA players.
- Thread starter Smashcat
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You won't find a bigger Kobe fan here but it's borderline indefensible to have him ahead of LeBron.
Lebron used to be my favorite player. Lost some respect for him over the years with his social commentary but what really did it was his comments (lack of?) in regards to the atrocities occurring in China and then wanting the rockets head coach FIRED. A complete and utter hypocrite considering his close ties to Nike among his other social “stances”.
That being said Paul Pierce is an idiot. Lebron is unquestionably top 5. Personally I think he’s absolutely top 3.
1a)MJ
1b)Lebron
2)Kobe
3)Bird
That being said Paul Pierce is an idiot. Lebron is unquestionably top 5. Personally I think he’s absolutely top 3.
1a)MJ
1b)Lebron
2)Kobe
3)Bird
Seems so. Great player on the court, but he has routinely put his foot in his mouth in the booth.
What's crazy to me, that often doesn't get mentioned.. is how good Lebron still is after being 35 and a half. How many Finals in a row now? 7? The amount of extra basketball he had to play equates to almost an extra 1.5 seasons in that time span. I don't think Jordan would have lasted that long, and played at a high level in the late 90's, if not for taking a break to play baseball. I think that "reset" was bigger than people realize.
You are correct with that. I love the Lakers and Kobe, but to have him at #2 is a downright joke.
Just my opinion, but Kobe's attitude of destroying opponents gives him the edge. He, Jordan and Magic loved burying people. I don't see that attitude in LeBron.
I believe some "experts" are still PO'd at James for his ESPN "I am taking my talents" to South Beach debacle, when he left Cleveland to go to Miami. I am not sure I would put James # 1 but he is for sure top 5. To me Jabbar is the best BB player in my life time, if you count college and pros. With Jordan safely at # 2..
I loathe Lebron ... but Paul P is a far bigger douche bag than Lebron. Paul is great is his own mind .. thats about it .. didnt that twat actually say he was the greatest Celtic ever or some thing similar ? He's one of the primary reasons I went from an rabid Celtics fan to Meh ' because of that douche .
But even if I grant you that, how much is it worth? Does it make a guy like Russell Westbrook better than LeBron? At what point does being a better actual basketball player matter more than these intangible criteria we think we see?
I'll say this though. If lebron wins a championship with the lakers after what he did with the cavalier and then winning 3 championships with 3 different teams is impressive with 4 championships over all
Paul is smart. Lebron might not make the top ten, if I went back to just my lifetime.
LBJ is not my favorite player. I can’t stand the guy to be honest.
However, he’s in the Top 5. At the very least he’s Top 6 looking in.
If he’s not in your Top 10, you have an agenda to push. He’s extremely athletic and given the chance can score from anywhere on the court. I’ve seen LBJ take shots that I didn’t think had a prayer of going in- go in. He can dunk and just out muscle most players in the court.
He is already a HOF consensus pick.
Dude can ball.
However, he’s in the Top 5. At the very least he’s Top 6 looking in.
If he’s not in your Top 10, you have an agenda to push. He’s extremely athletic and given the chance can score from anywhere on the court. I’ve seen LBJ take shots that I didn’t think had a prayer of going in- go in. He can dunk and just out muscle most players in the court.
He is already a HOF consensus pick.
Dude can ball.
Again, I love Kobe, but you either don't follow the NBA or have forgotten his career.
He and his team pushed their way to the Lakers, he forced Shaq out of LA, he refused to shoot out of protest in the playoffs, and threatened to demand a trade when he didn't get the roster moves he wanted, on top of a rape trial.
But you prefer your guys without the drama, so he's the second best of all time behind a guy who quit in his peak, refused to play for anyone but one coach, berated and punched his teammates, took up 54% of the salary cap, and spent the summer shooting a movie after a playoff loss that he blamed on being out of shape.
@Sleepy Sleeperson
It’s funny that you talk about a player being taken down in your book if they pout or take games off i. The playoffs. Yet you have Kobe as some kind of killer even though he did the exact same sh*t IN THE PLAYOFFS.
Or did you forget about him refusing to shoot in a Game 7? Or demanding a trade because his team wasn’t good enough, even though it was his selfish attitude that broke the team up in the first place? Or him costing his team a time with petulant play?
How can you hold things against one player when others have done the exact same thing, yet you seem to overlook it?
It’s funny that you talk about a player being taken down in your book if they pout or take games off i. The playoffs. Yet you have Kobe as some kind of killer even though he did the exact same sh*t IN THE PLAYOFFS.
Or did you forget about him refusing to shoot in a Game 7? Or demanding a trade because his team wasn’t good enough, even though it was his selfish attitude that broke the team up in the first place? Or him costing his team a time with petulant play?
How can you hold things against one player when others have done the exact same thing, yet you seem to overlook it?
I don’t think it’s agenda driven if someone says this. Here’s some right here that have a top 5 argument.
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Kobe
Amongst others.
I personally think Lebron is number 3 behind Jordan and Kareem, but I don’t think it’s nuts to have him outside of that.
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Kobe
Amongst others.
I personally think Lebron is number 3 behind Jordan and Kareem, but I don’t think it’s nuts to have him outside of that.
That’s a very good point.
Jordan, Kobe, Magic and Bird would watch the opponents bleed and do what they could to make them bleed more.
LBJ does not have that trait, imho. Imagine if he did!
Lebron is strong. Maybe the greatest specimen the NBA has ever seen. And, to his credit, he uses every ounce of what he’s got barreling his way to the hole with little resistance (most of the time).
I know this has been said a million times, but it would have been amazing to see him drive into the lane in the 80s and 90s. Would have been a little tougher than it is today.
I know this has been said a million times, but it would have been amazing to see him drive into the lane in the 80s and 90s. Would have been a little tougher than it is today.
That game 7 in which you refer, Kobe was 8 for 16 for twenty-four points. Kobe had scored 50 the game before with the Lakers losing. And actually, Kobe had scored big numbers in every game against Phoenix that year, but the Lakers had only won 1 game in 6. Do you think it's possible that because of their very poor success rate against Phoenix with Kobe scoring in bunches, that they tried a different strategy that game? That it was the game plan for him to shoot less?
I can promise you the Lakers strategy for 20 seasons was never for Kobe to score less.
He was pouting because he had taken criticism for shooting too much.
Kind of like MJ made up lies to motivate himself and sound tougher. For such tough guys and killers, they sure heard and reacted to every bit of criticism.
Anyone who has been the face of the league for the better part of the last dozen years is automatically in any top 5 discussion.
It's hard to imagine anyone dominating the media hype of a sport from high school through retirement like LeBron has done. I'm not sure we'll ever see anything like it again.
It's hard to imagine anyone dominating the media hype of a sport from high school through retirement like LeBron has done. I'm not sure we'll ever see anything like it again.
That sh*t is laughable. Everyone acknowledges what happened in that game, yet somehow for Kobe not to shoot in a Game 7 was the strategy lol.
Don’t make excuses for him. He flat out quit in the playoffs, but for someone reason that doesn’t seem to bother you. Even though you said someone gets taken down a level when they do that.
Has he fundamentally impacted the game like Bird/Magic or Jordan or Chamberlian?
Is he a good player? Yes. But I don't think he's in that category of player. My 2 cents.
yeah the whole Jordan wouldn’t be as good because of athletes is ridiculous, he would have triple the drive if anyone today and he may get 30 FT’s a game. Nobody defends the midrange anymore which he kills as well.
I’d say realistically only Jordan, Magic, and Kareem are universally top 5 guys. You can make an argument for Kobe over LeBron for a spot as well. It’s hard but he is IMO one of the five best to ever play.
Didn’t the big O average a triple double for his entire career? No one has mentioned him. Elgin Baylor and Jerry West should be mentioned as well.
Where are Magic, Bird, Wilt? I could see putting all of them ahead of Lebron. The top 5 gets crowded quick.
The complexity of team defenses now is so much more than it was in the 80s and 90s. People who say they don’t play defense in today’s NBA either don’t watch it, or don’t understand basketball.
Care to elaborate? He's also the player who's played with more superstar players then most of those hall of famers !! Chasing rings hes played with some of the best teams on earth !! U take miami ,lakers and clev with kyrie !!! Also as rondo pointed out 5titles for kobe and 3 for lebron!
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I'm a lifelong Lakers fan who worshipped Kobe as a kid. He isn't better than LeBron, he's just the closest MJ copy we'll ever see. He's top 8-12, but LeBron is top 3.
So far, the only people I've seen who believe otherwise do so because they can't be objective about LeBron.
I can't say just 5.
But MJ + Lebron are 1-2.
Lebron is bigger/better version of my favorite: Oscar Robertson.
What if I told you LeBron has a better clutch shooting percentage in the playoffs and has made more game winners, or that Kobe's numbers aren't flattering at all?
I love when people bring up shooting percentages with LeBron whenever his go-to moves have been lay-ups. I give him credit for developing his shot over the years (free throws still leave a lot to be desired!), but let’s not act like LeBron has made a living on shooting a bunch of jumpers because he hasn’t.
LeBron defenders love stats and strongly avoid the eye test and competitive/fear test. Just like a Peyton Manning in football, LeBron has all the measurables and gaudy stats that make him one of the greatest, but to be the greatest? He’s a ways away from that. Give me those that aren’t afraid, those that inspire teammates (even if hard on them), those that are clutch in the biggest moments. Your Jordans, Magics, Larrys, etc. Their will to win and embrace championship moments are superior to LeBron therefore they are greater.
I have been a fan of LeBron and rooted for him in Miami and Cleveland and now LA with Davis, but to put him in any comparison to Jordan or even Magic (who started center as a rookie in game 6(?) with injured Kareem and had something like 42 and 15 to win the NBA title) is laughable at best at this point. He is Peyton Manning. Great with regular season and raw stats, but has had some duds in the clutch in the playoffs.
