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OT: Van Hiles analysis makes me wonder: why is playing QB so difficult?

gamecockcat

All-SEC
Oct 29, 2004
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I followed, somewhat, the Titans game yesterday and Levis had a big game. However, he also badly misread the defense that resulted in a pick-6. That has been the knock on him all year - not reading the defense. He has a Master's in Finance from UK. He's no dummy by any stretch. He's played QB presumably for 10+ years. How is reading a defense still that difficult?

The Van Hiles thread makes the same points. Pre-snap our motion man is followed by a CB. According to VH, that means TX is in man coverage with only one safety back (and the play bears out his conclusion). Does BV not see that and recognize it? If not, why in god's name not? He, too, has played football for umpteen years. He's sat in on film study with Stetson Bennett and Carson Beck and the UGa coaching staff. He's studied film with Bush this year. How can he not see what is obvious (at least to VH)? One of the main purposes of putting a receiver in motion is to get the defense to show their hand, is it not? Then, once you understand the basic defense that TX is playing, VH points out where BV should have anticipated throwing the ball once it's snapped - either to the middle on a skinny post or the out pattern, both of which were open. BV had time, had a good play called for the defense and had not 1, but 2 guys open if he just makes the correct read and throws the GD ball. Neither throw would have been that difficult to execute nor would either have required a 25-yard pass. Just guessing that the longest throw would have been around 15 yards (skinny post receiver had plenty of daylight to run, btw).

Judging from his interviews, Brock is no dummy, either. Where is the disconnect? Levis certainly had problems getting to ball to the right receiver (other than Wandale who was ALWAYS the right receiver, imo), Leary had several games where he wouldn't find the easy pitch-and-catch on multiple occasions. Why is it so difficult for a player who has played QB for years to understand the mental aspect of playing the position?
 
While I do think BVG struggles reading both pre- and post-snap defense, I think we do very little to get our QB settled with how long it takes to get a play call in for some reason.

We have to average something like 12 seconds or less to get to the line and start lining up, which can take time on it's own. Then he has just a few seconds to look at what he's up against and get the ball snapped.

After spending all summer talking about increasing tempo, we really haven't done much in that regard.
 
While I do think BVG struggles reading both pre- and post-snap defense, I think we do very little to get our QB settled with how long it takes to get a play call in for some reason.

We have to average something like 12 seconds or less to get to the line and start lining up, which can take time on it's own. Then he has just a few seconds to look at what he's up against and get the ball snapped.

After spending all summer talking about increasing tempo, we really haven't done much in that regard.
I believe that the late information to Brook is so the coaches can see what personnel changes the other team has made. I don’t think that Brock has the authority to change the play, if he does then he isn’t good at reading defenses, because I don’t remember him changing any plays.
 
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Part of the problem is the revolving door of offensive coordinators. The quarterback has to know what every player is supposed to do and when there's a new offense to learn every year or two he has to "think" about what to do rather than "react". I know that from coaching middle school, the 6th graders are having to think about what to do while the 8th graders who are in their 3rd year are reacting to what to do. Kentucky's players are all like first year players on offense while our defensive coordinator has had some continuity so our defense is reacting and that's why the defense is usually better. Stoops has did the same thing as Curry did changing OCs. He should have brought in the same type of offense coach so there wouldn't have been so much new stuff to learn all of the time.
 
Because QB has to make split second reads while people are trying to kill him.

Plus those reads look WAAAAAY different at field level. Thats something noone ever discusses. You have tons of giant guys blocking your view while trying to kill you. All while you're reading defenders 20/30/40 yards downfield.

That on field pov is entirely different.
 
Because QB has to make split second reads while people are trying to kill him.

Plus those reads look WAAAAAY different at field level. Thats something noone ever discusses. You have tons of giant guys blocking your view while trying to kill you. All while you're reading defenders 20/30/40 yards downfield.

That on field pov is entirely different.
That's undoubtedly true. However, the defense signaling they're in man coverage happens before the chaos begins and, generally, our QB is in the shotgun so he should have no problem seeing that movement. From what VH says, once the QB recognizes the defense, that should allow the QB to narrow down all the different potential options of the called play to just one or two reads/areas, shouldn't it? On the video play that was analyzed, there was only two guys to look at, the other 3 weren't going to be in the area of weakness of the defense.

I can appreciate it's difficult. Hell, half the NFL QBs seem like they can't read a defense very well, either. But, after playing a position for a decade or more, why is it still difficult? Especially at the college level, defenses aren't as complicated as the NFL, don't run as much combo coverage, etc. Yes, the play calls are different depending on the OC. The language is different. But, defense playing man coverage should be a trigger for 'if / then' in the QBs mind. If, after reading the defense, he only needs to concentrate on 1/3 to maybe 1/2 the field, wouldn't that allow him to make decisions quicker? Boley doesn't seem to have the same hesitation and problems reading the defense and knowing where to go with the ball.
 
That's undoubtedly true. However, the defense signaling they're in man coverage happens before the chaos begins and, generally, our QB is in the shotgun so he should have no problem seeing that movement. From what VH says, once the QB recognizes the defense, that should allow the QB to narrow down all the different potential options of the called play to just one or two reads/areas, shouldn't it? On the video play that was analyzed, there was only two guys to look at, the other 3 weren't going to be in the area of weakness of the defense.

I can appreciate it's difficult. Hell, half the NFL QBs seem like they can't read a defense very well, either. But, after playing a position for a decade or more, why is it still difficult? Especially at the college level, defenses aren't as complicated as the NFL, don't run as much combo coverage, etc. Yes, the play calls are different depending on the OC. The language is different. But, defense playing man coverage should be a trigger for 'if / then' in the QBs mind. If, after reading the defense, he only needs to concentrate on 1/3 to maybe 1/2 the field, wouldn't that allow him to make decisions quicker? Boley doesn't seem to have the same hesitation and problems reading the defense and knowing where to go with the ball.

I love van but imo he oversimplifies qb play. If its man, you still have to account for safety/lb alignment and post snap movement in addition to any pressure/simulated pressure. You also have to watch for in/out pass offs/brackets, etc.

If its zone, it could be scores of variations which you won't know till you see their post snap drops.

All in the blink of an eye while people are trying to kill you, hoping your playcall has a beater for whatever theyre doing, all while the defense is trying to take away what you like to do.

Jmo but mesh is the perfect concept as long as wrs recognize it and sit. Another great one is go/clear, curl or post, and wheel all to the same side.

All that said i definitely think bush and scang made it too tough on qbs. Scang because he wanted levis to grow. Bush because i really think he didn't properly eval brock. As the year went, we started the one side read but brock just kept losing confidence.
 
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While I do think BVG struggles reading both pre- and post-snap defense, I think we do very little to get our QB settled with how long it takes to get a play call in for some reason.

We have to average something like 12 seconds or less to get to the line and start lining up, which can take time on it's own. Then he has just a few seconds to look at what he's up against and get the ball snapped.

After spending all summer talking about increasing tempo, we really haven't done much in that regard.
This is real and has been for some time. I don't get it. Get the play in. I think boley was getting exasperated with that as well if on field motions indicate anything.
 
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While I do think BVG struggles reading both pre- and post-snap defense, I think we do very little to get our QB settled with how long it takes to get a play call in for some reason.

We have to average something like 12 seconds or less to get to the line and start lining up, which can take time on it's own. Then he has just a few seconds to look at what he's up against and get the ball snapped.

After spending all summer talking about increasing tempo, we really haven't done much in that regard.
Hard to speed things up and play with tempo when we switch personal groupings in and out every play! Let the same damn guys play together for the whole series and go fast 🏈🏈💙💙💪💪
 
I followed, somewhat, the Titans game yesterday and Levis had a big game. However, he also badly misread the defense that resulted in a pick-6. That has been the knock on him all year - not reading the defense. He has a Master's in Finance from UK. He's no dummy by any stretch. He's played QB presumably for 10+ years. How is reading a defense still that difficult?

The Van Hiles thread makes the same points. Pre-snap our motion man is followed by a CB. According to VH, that means TX is in man coverage with only one safety back (and the play bears out his conclusion). Does BV not see that and recognize it? If not, why in god's name not? He, too, has played football for umpteen years. He's sat in on film study with Stetson Bennett and Carson Beck and the UGa coaching staff. He's studied film with Bush this year. How can he not see what is obvious (at least to VH)? One of the main purposes of putting a receiver in motion is to get the defense to show their hand, is it not? Then, once you understand the basic defense that TX is playing, VH points out where BV should have anticipated throwing the ball once it's snapped - either to the middle on a skinny post or the out pattern, both of which were open. BV had time, had a good play called for the defense and had not 1, but 2 guys open if he just makes the correct read and throws the GD ball. Neither throw would have been that difficult to execute nor would either have required a 25-yard pass. Just guessing that the longest throw would have been around 15 yards (skinny post receiver had plenty of daylight to run, btw).

Judging from his interviews, Brock is no dummy, either. Where is the disconnect? Levis certainly had problems getting to ball to the right receiver (other than Wandale who was ALWAYS the right receiver, imo), Leary had several games where he wouldn't find the easy pitch-and-catch on multiple occasions. Why is it so difficult for a player who has played QB for years to understand the mental aspect of playing the position?
Deer in headlights syndrome?
 
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Back to the original premise of playing qb being easy. Here is another van clip that illustrates some of the things i mentioned. Simulated pressure/zone blitz after completely disguising their presnap.

Yet cutter navigated it beautifully, accounted for the free man, and delivered s strike with an anticipation throw. That is high level stuff vs what many think is the best secondary in the nation. Much to look forward to with this young man at qb.

This is also another example of how a QB is part of the protection and why brock and levis made the OL look worse than they are. Both guys physically talented but not able to anticipate throws. They waited till the receiver was open, which is too late.


 
Hard to speed things up and play with tempo when we switch personal groupings in and out every play! Let the same damn guys play together for the whole series and go fast 🏈🏈💙💙💪💪
Speeding things up might make Stoops defense have to play a few more snaps. The tempo talk just needs to go away. It is always pre-season talk that never happens. Killing the clock is always going to be a staple of a Stoops team.
 
Back to the original premise of playing qb being easy. Here is another van clip that illustrates some of the things i mentioned. Simulated pressure/zone blitz after completely disguising their presnap.

Yet cutter navigated it beautifully, accounted for the free man, and delivered s strike with an anticipation throw. That is high level stuff vs what many think is the best secondary in the nation. Much to look forward to with this young man at qb.

This is also another example of how a QB is part of the protection and why brock and levis made the OL look worse than they are. Both guys physically talented but not able to anticipate throws. They waited till the receiver was open, which is too late.


I didn't mean to insinuate that playing QB was easy - far from it. What I am confused about is how a kid plays QB for multiple years and STILL can't read a defense. Obviously, Boley made the right read and a great throw for a big play. That play was set up by him understanding, at least to some extent, what the defense was showing and which receiver(s) should be open with what he saw pre-snap. It didn't look like Levis did that very often. Probably a little better than Will, but Leary didn't always read the field well. Brock is just hopeless, evidently, and my main question is 'Why?'. He's played the position for a long time. He's been coached at the HS level. I'm assuming his tenure at UGa was spent in the film room with coaches and other QBs dissecting film - what reads to look for, what reads to make, where to look at the snap after reading the defense, etc. I'm assuming that same learning/training process has continued at UK and he's still not getting it? Again, the kid is far from being dumb. So, why is he not getting it?
 
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