24 years playing career and i don’t think he was ever on the injured list. think about all the players nowadays who have to sit out because of “soreness” or “stiffness.”
OT: RIP Charlie Hustle
- Thread starter chroix
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Pete Rose was a hell of a ball player. One of the best ever.
BUT, Pete broke the cardinal rule of baseball. He then lied about it, and for years made a financial gain off his lies. Then a couple decades later he decided to come clean (probably for the attention). Had he come clean from day 1, it may have been a different outcome. I love Pete Rose the player, but he made his own bed. The steroids angle is an apples to oranges comparison.
BUT, Pete broke the cardinal rule of baseball. He then lied about it, and for years made a financial gain off his lies. Then a couple decades later he decided to come clean (probably for the attention). Had he come clean from day 1, it may have been a different outcome. I love Pete Rose the player, but he made his own bed. The steroids angle is an apples to oranges comparison.
GOAT, Willie Mays and Ted Williams, might have something to say about that. As for the hall, how do you put a guy in there that bet on games he was managing. Is there any behavior we won't tolerate these days.
I'm right there with you. I may be in the minority, but I still put value in things like character and honor. Things like Hall of Fames get diminished if we dilute criteria. Again, hell of a player, but he made his bed, and was unapologetic about it.
Also, if Shoeless Joe was never allowed back, why should Pete?
How do you have baseball sponsored by fan duel
Snobs and Hippcrits aplenty on this thread.
Unfortunately, I tend to agree, Shoeless Joe is not in the HOF either, IIRC.
Although Pete lied about betting on Reds games for years, and I for one never believed him, I will say that I think he was telling the truth that he never bet against the Reds. As the manager, it would have been way too easy to spot strange moves if he really was betting against his own team, and word would get out, especially from bookies who got screwed taking bets on the Reds, so I do believe him at least on that point.
Pete was my idol growing up, but I always had a big problem with gambling as the Reds manager.
And it's not so easy to just say, "He only bet on the Reds to win".
First of all, I don't think you will ever be able to convince me of that. A degenerate gambler that is gambling to win knows who he is putting on the mound, who is pitching against him, and knows how his team is feeling. If Pete had to gamble, and as an addict, I believe he did, do you think he would bet for the Reds when he had a tired team with his number 5 pitcher going up against Fernando Valenzuela the first game of a road trip after a long flight to LA? Do you honestly think he would just not bet that day? Was he capable of it? I bet in the coming years more evidence will come out.
And lets say he did only bet for the Reds to win. Would you want to play for a manager like that? How many times did he keep a pitcher in too long trying to win his bet? How many players didn't get a night off they probably deserved? How many injuries happened for overplaying a player while trying to win a bet? Lot's of talk that Rose ruined Mario Soto's career by over pitching him. Was that to make the playoffs, or to win bets?
I watched that last HBO special on him, and as much as I want to forgive and like the guy, he still came off as a liar and a complete asshole. I don't know if the Hall will ever let him in, I kinda doubt it, but like someone else has said, Pete totally made his own bed.
I don't think we disagree, you make many good points, which is why betting on games you are managing earns you a lifetime ban.
Instead of hurling insults why don't you offer a cogent argument to support your position.
Steroid use was rampant for so long and widespread in MLB throughout the 90s and continued on in the 2000s. Still to this day idiots will use PEDs and get caught. It is laughable how people will justify the cheating for steroid use with the black eye it was as on the sport for much longer as if it was no big deal, but take a holier than though stance on Pete Rose. Same for the Houston Astros sign-stealing cheating scandal. Hinch and Cora continue to manage in MLB to this day. The Hall of Fame should be consistent in their voting process for all of those who were ever involved in violating MLB rules regardless which ones were broken and directly had an impact on the game. Just be consistent in your judgment.
