I submit that most don't like him (including myself) because he is toothbeak dirty bird.
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L's down forever!
OT: Is Lamar Jackson overrated?
- Thread starter gamecockcat
- Start date
Point blank period.
L's down forever!
That was such a weird game as a Titans fan. They dominated us yards wise but the D was epitome of bend but not break and opportunistic.
In no particular order:
-Mahomes (duh)
-Burrow
-Allen
-Herbert
-Stroud
-Stafford
-Rodgers
Obviously, Lamar has better results (so far) than some of these but I attribute that to time in league (i.e. some of these guys are younger) and organization (the ravens have one of the best organizations in football and the chargers have one of the worst, as an example).
I think there is another group that may end up being better than him too (I'm doubtful on a few of these like Dak, but bullish on a few others like Love and Lawrence):
-Love
-Goff
-Lawrence
-Dak
-Hurts
He has one of, if not THE, best defenses every year. He has one of the best front offices in football. He has one of the best OL and DL every single year. He has one of the best stables of RB every year. The only point of potential weakness on that team has been the WR corps, but they went out of their way to beef it up last year and he still lost on his home field as the top seed.
Yes, I think a two time MVP is overrated (and I don't think he deserved to be MVP). He has a 2-4 playoff record and almost all of those losses were to lower seeds. Overrated.
Guys like you slurp on Lamar and you love to talk about his stats, but any losses or shortcomings are always the fault of someone else. The other night, his defense bailed out his bad plays (turnover deep in Chiefs territory, and they held them to FG; turnover on downs after Lamar stupidly tries to truck someone on his way out of bounds five yards short of the marker and the D held chiefs to a second FG).
Sorry, but a real MVP does not miss three chances at the end like he did. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Stafford and Rodgers are too old now. In their prime, yes on Rodgers, Stafford, no. Herbert hasn't done anything in his four years to prove he is better. He is a one dimensional pocket passer and depends solely on his arm, which can and does get him in trouble. When judging QB's, you have to look at the total package and ability, Herbert simply has not shown he is a better QB than Jackson. Arm, yes, overall talent, no. Herbert averages double digit INT's per year and relies a ton on his RB's catching short passes and turning them into "free" yards passing. SD depends on their RB's on average of about 800-850 yards per year receiving, and Herbert does not possess the athletic ability to extend plays once it breaks down or the pocket has broken down, if a receiver is not open, he relies on his strong arm and forces passes. He is a very talented QB, he just relies on one thing too much. he has to have pocket protection, if not, he becomes a very average QB. yes he is more accurate than Jackson, but only in a perfect world where he has a clear pocket and passing lanes to throw in. Jackson can improvise and make something out of nothing. he can take a broken play, poor containment, and make something happen by eluding the rush, leaving the pocket, and beat you with his legs or fine a receiver down field after extending the play.
Duh. But a stout defense doesn't determine if Jackson is a great QB or not. If anything, he doesn't have to sling it 50 times per game because he knows he can rely on his defense to keep the team in the game. Doesn't make him any less of a QB. But you also are helping my case. What does MOST QB's need to be great ? Yeap, great WR's. Jackson has never had that and still is an elite QB despite not having elite weapons to throw to and guys who can make the spectacular plays. Great front office, stout defenses, etc, does NOTHING to help him at the QB position. He has put the team on his back on offense and made great plays throwing and running when He has needed to. he has 2 1,000 yard rushing years and several 800 yard ones. He doesn't throw a ton of INT's even though he has very mediocre WR's. That is elite. Answer me this, what would the other QB's mentioned look like if they had Jackson's WR's and game plans on offense ? On the other hand, put Jackson on those QB's team, and you will not see a drop off in his production, if anything a increase. the more times he drops back to pass, the more times he will create a big play, whether it be passing or running.
Another point, if he has had such great offensive lines (pass pro, not run blocking), why is he constantly under pressure and forced to improvise, extend plays by leaving the pocket ? There is a difference in great offensive line run blocking and pass blocking. Imagine if Jackson had a Cee Dee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, or Jamar Chase on his team ?
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If Will Levis becomes a top level NFL quarterback, I wonder if Louisville fans will defend him with the game amount of gusto that some UK fan are using to sing the glory of Lamar Jackson. Somehow, I doubt they would. Not in a million years.
I do not use my fan bias when dissecting a QB in the NFL. If you are solely basing your opinion of Jackson because he played at UL, you can't be taken seriously. I can't stand UL, nor Jackson, but I also can't deny that he is a very talented QB. Because he played at a bitter rival, doesn't make his 2 NFL MVP seasons any less.
Just like I approach discussing basketball players who may have played at Duke, UNC, Kansas, where ever, I base my opinion on the players talent, not the school he attended. Simple really, I am not "singing the glory" of Jackson, just stating he is not overrated. You can dislike a player and still give a honest assessment of their abilities.
Just like I approach discussing basketball players who may have played at Duke, UNC, Kansas, where ever, I base my opinion on the players talent, not the school he attended. Simple really, I am not "singing the glory" of Jackson, just stating he is not overrated. You can dislike a player and still give a honest assessment of their abilities.
It's 100% irrelevant to discussion of a pro players career. I'm not one of those quote unquote singing the glory but just IMO.
I don't think he deserved either MVP, you can make arguments for other guys each season. But yeah I agree he wasn't gifted it or anything. I’m not a stats guy though, you gotta win to be in the conversation at the top.
"you gotta win to be in the conversation at the top". Well that definitely leaves out Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, and other than Mahomes, all of the QB's mentioned that was better than Jackson.
2019 MVP he received 49/50 1st place votes. Pretty dominate and obvious he was MVP.
3127 passing yards - 66% completion rate
36 passing TD's
Only 6 INT's (6-1 TD to INT ratio)
113.3 Rate / 83 QBR
1206 yards rushing (7 yards per carry
7 rushing TD's
Ravens finished 13-2
Accounted for 4333 total yards / 43 TD's against only 6 INT's. If he didn't deserve it, who did ? LOL.
I kind of agree about the MVP last year, though he did have a very good year.
2023 :
3678 yards passing / 67.2% completion rate / rating of 102.7 / 64.7 QBR / 24 TD's / Only 7 INT's
821 rushing yards / 5 rushing TD's
4499 total yards / 29 total TD's
Not nearly as good of a year as 2019, but still very good, just IMO, not MVP level.
But compared to Mahomes 2023 stats (I know, he won the Super Bowl)
4183 yards passing / 67.2% completion rate / 27 TD's / 14 INT's / 92.6 rate / 63.1 QBR
389 rushing yards / 0 TD's
Total yards 4572 Total TD's 27
OK. What does 5-5 get you ? WTF does Josh Allen's playoff record have to do with anything ? In my opinion, 2 MVP awards is greater than a 5-5 playoff record, but I could be wrong. Josh Allen has never won shit. Chokes EVERY year. And I like Josh Allen, unlike Lamar Jackson, but he is not a better QB, nor has he won more.
Allen last year : 4306 yards / 18 INT's (lead the league) Last 3 years he has thrown 18, 14, 15 INT's.
It gets you 3 more playoff wins than Lamar in the same number of seasons. I’d take JA 100/100 times if I was going to build a team.
I don't care about your "case". I think your dismissal of the importance of Defense and front office to a QB's success is wrong, but you clearly disagree. You are entitled to your opinion. I think it is shortsighted, but you do you. You are very passionate about Lamar Jackson, hope it works out for you. At the end of the day, you can't "prove anyone wrong", you just have a different opinion. The fact that he has two MVP awards really is meaningless to me considering that he has a 2-4 playoff record. I'd rather have the QBs that I listed and I feel confident that Lamar will not win a Super Bowl but will gladly eat crow if he wins one and I'm wrong.
Fair enough, and it will be a cold day in Hell before any Louisville fan is as fair as you are towards a UK player in the NFL.
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