OLine 2022 vs. (presumed) 2023

[gamecockcat]

Just an educated guess here:

LT: Marques Cox v. Horsey - Cox should be better as Horsey was playing out of position, although he wasn't dreadful.
LG: Horsey v. Burton - Horsey played well at LG in '21 and moving him back should be an upgrade over Burton who was inconsistent last year.
C: Burton (presumed) v. Eli Cox - since Eli was playing a new position and had some issues, I would expect no worse than a push at the C position. If Burton doesn't win the job, Bowles (xfer from Bama) may do so and, again, I'd say a push is a reasonable expectation if not a slight upgrade.
RG: Eli Cox v. Manning - Eli played well at RG in '21, Manning was solid in '22. Certainly don't expect a step back but wouldn't necessarily expect an upgrade, either. If Cox plays as well as Manning did, I'm fine with that.
RT: ???? v. Flax - biggest 'don't know' at this point. If it's Flax again, I'd expect some improvement but think it will still be the weakest link on the OL. If Buford, Wohlabaugh, Nik Hall (has to get/stay healthy), et al beat out Flax, then I would expect an upgrade at RT.

I do think we have some potentially quality backups who will push the starters for PT and that can only be a good thing. With the presumption that Leery will get rid of the ball quicker, Coen will be an upgrade over Scang as playcaller and so many weapons in the WR/TE corps, I have to believe the OL will perform better than last year (how could they not, right?) and, possibly, significantly better. Leery won't be physically able to take 40+ sacks and stay on the field. Even Levis missed some time and played hurt quite a bit and he's sturdier than Leery.

 

[Madcat62]

Just an educated guess here:

LT: Marques Cox v. Horsey - Cox should be better as Horsey was playing out of position, although he wasn't dreadful.
LG: Horsey v. Burton - Horsey played well at LG in '21 and moving him back should be an upgrade over Burton who was inconsistent last year.
C: Burton (presumed) v. Eli Cox - since Eli was playing a new position and had some issues, I would expect no worse than a push at the C position. If Burton doesn't win the job, Bowles (xfer from Bama) may do so and, again, I'd say a push is a reasonable expectation if not a slight upgrade.
RG: Eli Cox v. Manning - Eli played well at RG in '21, Manning was solid in '22. Certainly don't expect a step back but wouldn't necessarily expect an upgrade, either. If Cox plays as well as Manning did, I'm fine with that.
RT: ???? v. Flax - biggest 'don't know' at this point. If it's Flax again, I'd expect some improvement but think it will still be the weakest link on the OL. If Buford, Wohlabaugh, Nik Hall (has to get/stay healthy), et al beat out Flax, then I would expect an upgrade at RT.

I do think we have some potentially quality backups who will push the starters for PT and that can only be a good thing. With the presumption that Leery will get rid of the ball quicker, Coen will be an upgrade over Scang as playcaller and so many weapons in the WR/TE corps, I have to believe the OL will perform better than last year (how could they not, right?) and, possibly, significantly better. Leery won't be physically able to take 40+ snaps and stay on the field. Even Levis missed some time and played hurt quite a bit and he's sturdier than Leery.

think you are spot on with your assessment.

 

[Rembrandt90]

Based on Coach Coen's recent comments-

LT- M. Cox-Buford
LG- Horsey-Bingham
C- Burton-Keenum
RG- E. Cox-Bowles
RT- Flax-Wohlabaugh

It is going to be interesting to watch and see if the spring experiment with Burton at C sticks. Coen wasn't here in 2022, but he clearly really liked Eli Cox's play at RG in 2021. So that adjustment is Coen's first stamp on this year's OL.

It is widely acknowledged that Coen and Yenser are watching closely this month to see if Jeremy Flax is improving. In 2022, Flax got beat on the edge too often. His footwork and quickness must improve. Otherwise, Coach Stoops may have to go to the portal in May.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

There had been speculation on here for quite some time about Cox's play at center. I don't have his graded numbers here for the year but Stoops has always been positive in his comments on Cox. All the way up till just recently. I do not recall any comments from Stoops about the center position needing to get better. I think the switch with Burton is more of getting Burton in a new spot. Anxious to see how these two guys do in their new positions.

Jones will be looked at ROT so that is a position to keep an eye on. Also will be watching to see if Rodriguez makes a move in the spring. It is good to hear Stoops opinion of M Cox because if what he has seen is accurate then the left side should be solid.

 

[Ky grandpa]

I don't want to get my hope's up too high.. I would like to see UK's OL be equally as good as 2021.. That would be a Hugh upgrade over what we had last year.. If UK can just get to that level we will see a big improvement...


GBB

 

[Kybluedude]

Wish Burton had redshirted and worked solely on gaining weight and strength.

 

[JHB4UK]

Jager did RS in 21

Comparing any UK O line to 2021 isn't fair. 2 multi yr seniors who were 22 NFL draft picks. A 3rd starter was a starter at LSU and should have been drafted. Joe Moore Award finalists, for good reason.

Just back to the standards of 2016-2020 would be a dramatic improvement from last yr.

Liking what we are hearing!!!

 

[Rembrandt90]

Wish Burton had redshirted and worked solely on gaining weight and strength.

Burton did redshirt.

 

[Rembrandt90]

I would like to see UK's OL be equally as good as 2021..


GBB

Darian Kinard and Luke Fortner were here in 2021. Both are in the NFL now. I am not going to say that our OL will never be that good again, because I believe it will eventually be as good or better. But that may take some time. We just need our OL to keep improving. We gave up >40 sacks last year(!!). There were multiple reasons, but the takeaway is that giving up more sacks than any other SEC team is not winning football. Can't run a balanced spread offense successfully if your QB gets whacked in the head or the knees on every snap. Leary will need to be protected. That's why Marques Cox was brought in, and it's why Coach Coen is watching the RTs closely in practice now.

 

[Dead Cat Bounce]

There had been speculation on here for quite some time about Cox's play at center. I don't have his graded numbers here for the year but Stoops has always been positive in his comments on Cox. All the way up till just recently. I do not recall any comments from Stoops about the center position needing to get better. I think the switch with Burton is more of getting Burton in a new spot. Anxious to see how these two guys do in their new positions.

I think this analysis is sound, based on the trust that the coaching staff has invested in Cox since day one. My thinking is that Coen isn't moving Cox because he thinks Burton will necessarily be a better center, but because he thinks the line on the whole will be stronger with Cox at guard. I'm a homer for the Jessamine kid, though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

[Rembrandt90]

I think this analysis is sound, based on the trust that the coaching staff has invested in Cox since day one. My thinking is that Coen isn't moving Cox because he thinks Burton will necessarily be a better center, but because he thinks the line on the whole will be stronger with Cox at guard. I'm a homer for the Jessamine kid, though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Correct. This is not about moving Burton to C, although that is a result. It is about moving Eli Cox to RG where he played when Coen was here in 2021. Coen likes Cox at RG. That's what he said. But I think Burton will probably be fine at C.

 

[Dead Cat Bounce]

Correct. This is not about moving Burton to C, although that is a result. It is about moving Eli Cox to RG where he played when Coen was here in 2021. Coen likes Cox at RG. That's what he said. But I think Burton will probably be fine at C.

I get that. I regret only that Cox doesn’t get the chance to prove himself at C with a stronger supporting cast and a coach under whom he has excelled. But if moving him to guard will produce superior OL results, I’ll make my peace with it quick.

 

[UKfirst]

I’m feeing good about the C position knowing that Jackson’s in the room mentoring those guys plus a less complicated run/pass blocking scheme. Will be curious to see what happens @ RT after spring practice and the May transfer portal closes.

 

[Rembrandt90]

I’m feeing good about the C position knowing that Jackson’s in the room mentoring those guys plus a less complicated run/pass blocking scheme. Will be curious to see what happens @ RT after spring practice and the May transfer portal closes.

As far as the C position is concerned, let's keep in mind that Koby Keenum was signed as a C. Barring multiple injuries, Keenum's snaps in 2023 will be limited to mop up in 4 games or fewer as a redshirt. But he could be UK's future starter.

 

[vhcat70]

Hard to keep track of all the Cox.

 

[Tskware]

Three of the same guys as last year, only in different positions. We are really counting on M Cox, the transfer from N Illinois to step in and be a solid improvement. But coming off an injury and moving from the MAC to the SEC, I will take a wait and see approach. At the moment, I still see both OT positions as potential problems. Not sold on Flax at all, tbh.

 

[UKfirst]

Agree 100%. If we’re hunting for tackles after spring practice there’s probably going to be a revolving door there for awhile.

 

[UKfirst]

Now to put a positive spin on my prior comment. We now have the expectation as a program to at least try to supplement a potential area of weakness whereas before no one was expected to try (or really cared) that much to improve.

 

[Rembrandt90]

Three of the same guys as last year, only in different positions. We are really counting on M Cox, the transfer from N Illinois to step in and be a solid improvement. But coming off an injury and moving from the MAC to the SEC, I will take a wait and see approach. At the moment, I still see both OT positions as potential problems. Not sold on Flax at all, tbh.

If fully healthy, Marques Cox is an upgrade. That's why Stoops took him out of the portal. Our coaches got to see him play in person in a balanced offense last September. They know what they are getting. Moving Horsey back to LG improves two positions on Devin Leary's blind side. At one time, Horsey received all conference attention as a LG.

It is too early to know if Flax will start this year. We know Yenser and Coen will be watching him closely this spring, because Coen basically said so. In order to keep his starting job, Flax has to improve. Any player can improve from one season to the next. That is expected. Buford and Wohlabaugh can also improve. Otherwise, there is another portal window in May.

In college football, players get developed over 4-5 years. Football players work in the gym, eat right, get coached, and get better. It isn't like SEC basketball where snap judgments are made about most freshmen in the first two months of their college careers. In football, improvement is a gradual process, especially for offensive linemen.

 

[mrschwump]

If fully healthy, Marques Cox is an upgrade. That's why Stoops took him out of the portal. Our coaches got to see him play in person in a balanced offense last September. They know what they are getting. Moving Horsey back to LG improves two positions on Devin Leary's blind side. At one time, Horsey received all conference attention as a LG.

It is too early to know if Flax will start this year. We know Yenser and Coen will be watching him closely this spring, because Coen basically said so. In order to keep his starting job, Flax has to improve. Any player can improve from one season to the next. That is expected. Buford and Wohlabaugh can also improve. Otherwise, there is another portal window on May.

In college football, players get developed over 4-5 years. Football players work in the gym, eat right, get coached, and get better. It isn't like SEC basketball where snap judgments are made about most freshmen in the first two months of their college careers. In football, improvement is a gradual process, especially for offensive linemen.

Amen! Too many here apply basketball thinking to football. They think if a guy doesn't produce at the level THEY THINK he should as a freshman he's a bum. Doesn't work that way. Time with good diet, S/C, film study, one on one coaching for most positions is vital.

 

[Tskware]

Don't disagree with Rembrandt or Mrschwump as to young offensive linemen, but this is Flax 4th year at UK, after spending time at a JUCO, at some point, you are what you are . . . . how much better do you think he will get at this point in his career?

 

[JHB4UK]

Love that the offseason emphasis on fixing the O line already showing tangible results. Go listed to Brad White last Thurs, said the offense got after his elite D, that they "bloodied our noses".

What does an offense bloodying the nose of a defense look like to you? It ain't Leary throwing 40 yd bombs to Barion and Key. That description tells me this rebuilding and re shuffling O line shoved the D around!

 

[mrschwump]

Don't disagree with Rembrandt or Mrschwump as to young offensive linemen, but this is Flax 4th year at UK, after spending time at a JUCO, at some point, you are what you are . . . . how much better do you think he will get at this point in his career?

Good point. But while Flax may not be a future pro he is serviceable and even with HS and JUCO experience he had to be torn down and rebuilt, takes time. Let's hope the work he's put in prior will pay off in '23.

 

[Deeeefense]

There has to be synergy between the individual lineman to be an effective unit. That usually takes a little time with new faces or players changing position. I think if whoever plays center this year can do a better job of calling protection, that in itself will be a big help. This unit MUST cut down on sacks allowed and not have so many blown assignments as last years unit.

 

[Soupbean]

I think this analysis is sound, based on the trust that the coaching staff has invested in Cox since day one. My thinking is that Coen isn't moving Cox because he thinks Burton will necessarily be a better center, but because he thinks the line on the whole will be stronger with Cox at guard. I'm a homer for the Jessamine kid, though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Yeah I think you're right. I'm a huge fan of the freshman Keenum and believe if he can show early promise to back up the center position it may make that move for Eli back to guard even more likely. That' assuming Burton shows the same promise at new postion.

I think the coaches think they may get double bonus in making that switch with both Eli and Jager getting more comfortable and thus better at the other position.

 

[mrschwump]

IIRC, Scang came in last Spring and changed the OL's blocking scheme. I'm hardly advanced in my knowledge of OL blocking to understand but I do recall Drake Jackson commenting something like: "The new scheme is like wiping your ass with your other hand." Clearly the OL had difficulty adjusting. I'm assuming UK in '23 will return to a more familiar scheme. I feel that change contributed to a lot of '22 OL's poor play but will admit having better athletes would seriously aid the cause.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

IIRC, Scang came in last Spring and changed the OL's blocking scheme. I'm hardly advanced in my knowledge of OL blocking to understand but I do recall Drake Jackson commenting something like: "The new scheme is like wiping your ass with your other hand." Clearly the OL had difficulty adjusting. I'm assuming UK in '23 will return to a more familiar scheme. I feel that change contributed to a lot of '22 OL's poor play but will admit having better athletes would seriously aid the cause.

Iirc that was him explaining the wide zone vs inside zone when coen got here.

Wide zone hasn't worked yet but we just got the first wide zone RB in this scheme. Interested to see how Davis looks. That said, coen adjusted out of wide zone and we were much better. Unfortunately cost us probably the MSU game. Scang was unfortunately slower to give up on it but also had pin and pull sprinkled in.

I have faith we'll look good on the ground. Coen learned versatility when he was here the first time and we really turned it on by the UT game

 

[Rembrandt90]

I have faith we'll look good on the ground. Coen learned versatility when he was here the first time and we really turned it on by the UT game

Even under Scangarello in 2022, we were a better run blocking than pass blocking OL. We gave up >40 sacks in 2022, last in the SEC by a significant margin. That is a frightening number of sacks. Granted some of that was on Levis for holding onto the ball in the pocket too long. But, to my eye, run blocking improved as the season went along, whereas pass blocking never really did. Even Flax, who may be in danger of losing his starting role, was actually a pretty good run blocker while being a pretty bad pass blocker.

IMO, adding Marquez Cox on the left edge and moving Horsey inside is a big upgrade. I like Coach Coen's idea to move Eli Cox back to RG.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Even under Scangarello in 2022, we were a better run blocking than pass blocking OL. We gave up >40 sacks in 2022, last in the SEC by a significant margin. That is a frightening number of sacks. Granted some of that was on Levis for holding onto the ball in the pocket too long. But, to my eye, run blocking improved as the season went along, whereas pass blocking never really did. Even Flax, who is may be in danger of losing his starting role, was actually a pretty good run blocker while being a pretty bad pass blocker.

IMO, adding Marquez Cox on the left edge and moving Horsey inside is a big upgrade. I like Coach Coen's idea to move Eli Cox back to RG.

Holding the ball too long was just part of his issues. He never presnap read blitz, so he never gave the offense a chance to get the ball out.

Also his pocket presence was awful. He rarely stepped up, which would've avoided several sacks because the ots are taught to block a certain launch point and Levis wasn't supposed to be there. That ole miss sack game losing strip sack is a perfect example. He steps up, guy flies by (as intended) and we win or live to see the next down. Happened all season.

Early on ol definitely struggled with twists. 100%. There were other sacks too where Levis had no chance. That's football. That's also why those avoidable sacks were so important and he killed us there

 

[3kidsandme]

Don't disagree with Rembrandt or Mrschwump as to young offensive linemen, but this is Flax 4th year at UK, after spending time at a JUCO, at some point, you are what you are . . . . how much better do you think he will get at this point in his career?

The entire OL heads was swimming last year. Not to mention being asked to be in your stance for 35 seconds every damn play isn’t fun. I think you get this OL on the same page this year and actually knowing what the hell they are supposed to do will mean drastic improvement. That is my hope anyway lol

 

[Oldtrainer]

The entire OL heads was swimming last year. Not to mention being asked to be in your stance for 35 seconds every damn play isn’t fun. I think you get this OL on the same page this year and actually knowing what the hell they are supposed to do will mean drastic improvement. That is my hope anyway lol

^^^Agree^^^JMO Cox is a guard!

 

[JHB4UK]

For those worried about RT, a word of caution, don't say to yourself or to others "let's get some help there from the portal after Spring!". The last 3 yrs has proven that quality O linemen are the most scarce inventory in the portal. And quality O tackles are most scarce of all.

The staff did some excellent backchannel work (tampering!!) to line up landing M Cox as soon as he entered the portal last Nov/Dec to fix LT. At this point, what we got is what we got, the answer for RT has to be on the roster, just gotta figure out who that is.

 

[Ky grandpa]

For those worried about RT, a word of caution, don't say to yourself or to others "let's get some help there from the portal after Spring!". The last 3 yrs has proven that quality O linemen are the most scarce inventory in the portal. And quality O tackles are most scarce of all.

The staff did some excellent backchannel work (tampering!!) to line up landing M Cox as soon as he entered the portal last Nov/Dec to fix LT. At this point, what we got is what we got, the answer for RT has to be on the roster, just gotta figure out who that is.

While I agree with most of what you said, I can't believe UK did any tampering... How do you or anyone know.. Maybe the kid had said out loud he wanted to transfer.. A good coach has feelers out for certain player position's... I think Cox knew before the season was over he wanted to try the big boy FB out before he lost all his college eligibility...
What ever it was I am glad he chose to play for UK... He looks like a good player and he has to be better than last year, right??


GBB

 

[JHB4UK]

I'm just joking about the tampering thing, since that gets said so much about transfers. IMO most really good portal prospects have in fact already worked out where they will go before their name officially is available. Because that is the smart intelligent thing to do for the last shot at an NFL career.. That is why a lot announce destinations in a few days, or after 1 visit.

A recruiting analyst on a podcast a few days ago said it best, if a good player enters the portal & a coaching staff says "wonder where he will end up?"....the answer is, not with you.

 

[Comebakatz3]

I have said this before, but the issues with the OL were extremely deep last year and they all compounded one another.

1. Personnel. Some of the guys just weren't that good and would get beaten. Not all the time, but still too much. This was especially evident in space where a lineman would get to the second level and then block absolutely no one.
2. Recognition. We were awful at recognizing the blitz and then getting into the right scheme to then pick up that blitz. So many free running blitzers because we didn't recognize the blitz pre-snap. Don't know if that is on Levis or the C. I think in the past the C was calling that.
3. Communication. A part of this blocking scheme that is so important is to communicate and know what the people beside you are doing. You're not just going one on one, but you're playing zones and passing defenders off to the person beside you when they leave your zone. You're also starting with double teams and then coming off of those, so the person that gets left one on one must be ready for that. So many of the free runs at the QB or the RB were because of these communication issues where one or both stopped blocking because they didn't know what to do.

My concern is that 2 and 3 didn't really seem to improve a ton over the season. Maybe improving 1 helps fix the other two. However, the fact that we didn't improve the teachable aspects is something that scares me.

 

[Rembrandt90]

For those worried about RT, a word of caution, don't say to yourself or to others "let's get some help there from the portal after Spring!". The last 3 yrs has proven that quality O linemen are the most scarce inventory in the portal. And quality O tackles are most scarce of all.

Dare Rosenthal arrived here in June. So while your point is well taken, there are important exceptions.

 

[Rembrandt90]

I have said this before, but the issues with the OL were extremely deep last year and they all compounded one another.

1. Personnel. Some of the guys just weren't that good and would get beaten. Not all the time, but still too much. This was especially evident in space where a lineman would get to the second level and then block absolutely no one.
2. Recognition. We were awful at recognizing the blitz and then getting into the right scheme to then pick up that blitz. So many free running blitzers because we didn't recognize the blitz pre-snap. Don't know if that is on Levis or the C. I think in the past the C was calling that.
3. Communication. A part of this blocking scheme that is so important is to communicate and know what the people beside you are doing. You're not just going one on one, but you're playing zones and passing defenders off to the person beside you when they leave your zone. You're also starting with double teams and then coming off of those, so the person that gets left one on one must be ready for that. So many of the free runs at the QB or the RB were because of these communication issues where one or both stopped blocking because they didn't know what to do.

My concern is that 2 and 3 didn't really seem to improve a ton over the season. Maybe improving 1 helps fix the other two. However, the fact that we didn't improve the teachable aspects is something that scares me.

We don't really know if communication on our OL improved during the season. But our opponents blitzed the hell out of us in November and in the MCB. Especially the zero gap blitzes. That cost us dearly and resulted in many unnecessary hits on Levis.