OL is the real question!

[maysvilleky]

IMO…the real question is what has happened to our OL? Was Schlarman the best Oline coach that ever existed? Is it not recognizing talent? What is the deal?

Personally I think BV would be a pretty good QB if he wasn’t scared for his life on every drop back.

 

[Tf2217]

Several reaches.
Take ray for example and I like ray, he was a walk on transfer with no real experience and we're actively depending on him to be good. Our line is composed of transfers who basically did nothing in college. Or beat up (mincey, and Cox) The few we've recruited are not exactly world beaters either (Burton,)
Either through failure to develop or straight up trash talent evaluation is where we are at.

I never got the point of taking recruits based on ranking who never got to play, give me a Mac kid or something that's proven something.

 

[K_TIME]

Several reaches.
Take ray for example and I like ray, he was a walk on transfer with no real experience and we're actively depending on him to be good. Our line is composed of transfers who basically did nothing in college. Or beat up (mincey, and Cox) The few we've recruited are not exactly world beaters either (Burton,)
Either through failure to develop or straight up trash talent evaluation is where we are at.

I never got the point of taking recruits based on ranking who never got to play, give me a Mac kid or something that's proven something.

This is well stated....just Oline is mess all over the place across the tackles, guards, etc...

1. At this point, we have to get back developing Keenum, Selm, Malachi Wood, Nave, etc... Why Schlarman could coach up kids like Stenberg, Fortner, Nick Haynes, Big George, etc.... None of which highly rated nor had great offer sheets and now we can't coach up current kids with much better offer sheets and higher ratings is so frustrating.

2. The portal stuff simply hasn't worked on the Oline....at all.
- Marques Cox was decent last year and inexplicably is much worse this year.
- Jalen Farmer...not impressed with him so far
- Mincey....at this point has been worse Oline on a bad Oline
- Courtland Ford....hasn't played in 2 years....and those were not amazing Oline play for him to beat out
- Tanner Bowles....never played a snap
- Ben Chrisman....never played a snap
- Tayshawn Manning for 2022.....started and may have been our best Oline on teh worst Oline I can remember under Stoops....

- Feels like we pushed Deandre Buford (who apparently has been solid at Cincy) for guys like Ford/Mincey via portal. I think we made a mistake.

In the end, Wolford/Stoops (assuming we keep with Stoops) need to recruit and develop the Oline. Stop with the multiple portal stuff. It is obvious it does not work for UK.

 

[Eccain01]

This is well stated....just Oline is mess all over the place across the tackles, guards, etc...

1. At this point, we have to get back developing Keenum, Selm, Malachi Wood, Nave, etc... Why Schlarman could coach up kids like Stenberg, Fortner, Nick Haynes, Big George, etc.... None of which highly rated nor had great offer sheets and now we can't coach up current kids with much better offer sheets and higher ratings is so frustrating.

2. The portal stuff simply hasn't worked on the Oline....at all.
- Marques Cox was decent last year and inexplicably is much worse this year.
- Jalen Farmer...not impressed with him so far
- Mincey....at this point has been worse Oline on a bad Oline
- Courtland Ford....hasn't played in 2 years....and those were not amazing Oline play for him to beat out
- Tanner Bowles....never played a snap
- Ben Chrisman....never played a snap
- Tayshawn Manning for 2022.....started and may have been our best Oline on teh worst Oline I can remember under Stoops....

- Feels like we pushed Deandre Buford (who apparently has been solid at Cincy) for guys like Ford/Mincey via portal. I think we made a mistake.

In the end, Wolford/Stoops (assuming we keep with Stoops) need to recruit and develop the Oline. Stop with the multiple portal stuff. It is obvious it does not work for UK.

Everyone knows that but the issue is it takes time for line to get ready to play. We are going ahead to use the portal heavy again. They just need to evaluate better. While the young guys get ready to play.

 

[RunninRichie]

IMO…the real question is what has happened to our OL? Was Schlarman the best Oline coach that ever existed? Is it not recognizing talent? What is the deal?

Personally I think BV would be a pretty good QB if he wasn’t scared for his life on every drop back.

Recruiting misses.

 

[yoshukai]

Several reaches.
Take ray for example and I like ray, he was a walk on transfer with no real experience and we're actively depending on him to be good. Our line is composed of transfers who basically did nothing in college. Or beat up (mincey, and Cox) The few we've recruited are not exactly world beaters either (Burton,)
Either through failure to develop or straight up trash talent evaluation is where we are at.

I never got the point of taking recruits based on ranking who never got to play, give me a Mac kid or something that's proven something.

I remember in Coens first year we were told we were going to start recruiting more athletic linemen so we could run the outside zone blocking scheme. Seems like we’ve been going downhill ever since .

 

[mrschwump]

This is well stated....just Oline is mess all over the place across the tackles, guards, etc...

1. At this point, we have to get back developing Keenum, Selm, Malachi Wood, Nave, etc... Why Schlarman could coach up kids like Stenberg, Fortner, Nick Haynes, Big George, etc.... None of which highly rated nor had great offer sheets and now we can't coach up current kids with much better offer sheets and higher ratings is so frustrating.

2. The portal stuff simply hasn't worked on the Oline....at all.
- Marques Cox was decent last year and inexplicably is much worse this year.
- Jalen Farmer...not impressed with him so far
- Mincey....at this point has been worse Oline on a bad Oline
- Courtland Ford....hasn't played in 2 years....and those were not amazing Oline play for him to beat out
- Tanner Bowles....never played a snap
- Ben Chrisman....never played a snap
- Tayshawn Manning for 2022.....started and may have been our best Oline on teh worst Oline I can remember under Stoops....

- Feels like we pushed Deandre Buford (who apparently has been solid at Cincy) for guys like Ford/Mincey via portal. I think we made a mistake.

In the end, Wolford/Stoops (assuming we keep with Stoops) need to recruit and develop the Oline. Stop with the multiple portal stuff. It is obvious it does not work for UK.

Go back to 2020 and look at the signing OL classes. Just about all are gone(Buford at Cincy and John Young in the MAC have been multi-year starters). Otherwise, massive missed evals, injuries and just pure bad luck have highlighted those classes. Wolford said the other day it generally takes at least 2 years to develop OLinemen.

Cox has been a disappointment this year, Farmer I think has been so-so, got stuck with a totally bogus holding vs Auburn, Stinchcomb essentially called it a BS call, Mincey has been a massive flop, Wood's finally beat him out. If it wasn't bad enough, UK took Mincey's younger brother even tho the guy had no offers, Ford finally played a few snaps vs Auburn, Christman is on STs, XP/FGs. Ray continues at multiple positions. Now we hear that due to injuries in the DL, Ramsey's moved to NG. Would love to see Keenum, Nave, Selm get some PT.

 

[cat888]

The Pros develop College players into Pros. They are not used to developing High School Kids into College Men or players, and having a different OC three years in a row didn't help! They should have stayed with Eddie Gran. He matched Stoops' Philosophy and proved to be good at adapting to the players on hand and developing players, especially lineman.

 

[gamecockcat]

What is really surprising to me are the returning core players: Eli, M. Cox and Burton. As stated above, M. Cox has taken a severe step backwards. Burton has actually done OK in some games but I figured at this point in his career he'd be anchor to the OL and that just isn't so. In his worst moments, he jumps the snap, whiffs on a defender, etc. still.

Eli is just a complete mystery to me. Three plays in the Auburn game that I remember distinctly:
1. Handoff on 2nd down to Patterson at the goal line - a pin and pull/trap play was called, there was a significant gap in the line for Patterson to walk into the end zone with one LB in the hole; Eli pulls and hardly makes contact as the LB avoids him and stands Patterson straight up at the 2. The call was correct, the other OL more than did an adequate job and all Eli had to do was basically get in front of the defender, not even drive him out of the hole, and he failed miserably.
2. Think it was early in the 3rd quarter, 1st or 2nd down - we call a pass (it looked like a midrange play to me) and Eli's man does a swim move and is in Wimsatt's face almost immediately and he throws it away.
3. The next play, we run left attempting to turn the corner and the ball carrier is dragged down from behind. Honest to God, Eli is all by himself about 6 or 7 yards behind the LOS. I have no explanation for why the center, on a running play, ends up so far away from the LOS with no one to block. Unfathomable.

I don't want to suggest that it's all Eli's fault. But, his best moments were as an OG as a freshman. He's barely been adequate since then. If Keenum isn't able to beat out Eli at this point, I wonder if Keenum is good enough to play next year.

 

[Cobb4uk]

IMO…the real question is what has happened to our OL? Was Schlarman the best Oline coach that ever existed? Is it not recognizing talent? What is the deal?
Rd
Personally I think BV would be a pretty good QB if he wasn’t scared for his life on every drop back.

Isn't it odd Wolford came after Coach Schlarman, developed no one, left for Bama and they've been deficient on the OL ever since. I think he's tremendously overrated. Mincey and the 2 Coxes are decent players but our line is awful, at best. Wolford iscanother of Stoops Youngstown buddies.

 

[K_TIME]

Go back to 2020 and look at the signing OL classes. Just about all are gone(Buford at Cincy and John Young in the MAC have been multi-year starters). Otherwise, massive missed evals, injuries and just pure bad luck have highlighted those classes. Wolford said the other day it generally takes at least 2 years to develop OLinemen.

Cox has been a disappointment this year, Farmer I think has been so-so, got stuck with a totally bogus holding vs Auburn, Stinchcomb essentially called it a BS call, Mincey has been a massive flop, Wood's finally beat him out. If it wasn't bad enough, UK took Mincey's younger brother even tho the guy had no offers, Ford finally played a few snaps vs Auburn, Christman is on STs, XP/FGs. Ray continues at multiple positions. Now we hear that due to injuries in the DL, Ramsey's moved to NG. Would love to see Keenum, Nave, Selm get some PT.

But isn't too convenient to wrap this up as recruiting misses and bad luck.
1. I get Goodwin was a big bust even Bama, Ohio St, etc...wanted.
2.. Nic Hall's back issues....had to hurt
3. Grant Bingham left football apparently


-But why did we not stick with Buford (who looked decent to me in 2022)?
-Why did Schlarman develop 2 star (Stenberg, Bunchy Stallings) and low rated 3 star (Fortner, Nassir Watkins was solid, Kenneth Horsey)....he never seemed to struggle near this poorly.....it's not like Oline recruits have changed a ton in past few years....it's the same kind of Oline for UK to recruit.
-Why did Kenneth Horsey play decline his last 2 years?
- Why was Eli Cox solid as Fr in 2021....and he's been worse as he's gotten older

We are now at a point, we have to grab 3 or more starters from portal (and they have not been dominate). THere is a clear teaching, scheme and or development problem at Oline.

And when Oline is a mess....the QB is impacted the most, the TE have to help pass block vs. in pass game, WR can't run deeper routes, etc.. So, we need to figure this spot out....quite honestly it may be the 2nd most vital spot on asst coaching staff.

 

[mrschwump]

What is really surprising to me are the returning core players: Eli, M. Cox and Burton. As stated above, M. Cox has taken a severe step backwards. Burton has actually done OK in some games but I figured at this point in his career he'd be anchor to the OL and that just isn't so. In his worst moments, he jumps the snap, whiffs on a defender, etc. still.

Eli is just a complete mystery to me. Three plays in the Auburn game that I remember distinctly:
1. Handoff on 2nd down to Patterson at the goal line - a pin and pull/trap play was called, there was a significant gap in the line for Patterson to walk into the end zone with one LB in the hole; Eli pulls and hardly makes contact as the LB avoids him and stands Patterson straight up at the 2. The call was correct, the other OL more than did an adequate job and all Eli had to do was basically get in front of the defender, not even drive him out of the hole, and he failed miserably.
2. Think it was early in the 3rd quarter, 1st or 2nd down - we call a pass (it looked like a midrange play to me) and Eli's man does a swim move and is in Wimsatt's face almost immediately and he throws it away.
3. The next play, we run left attempting to turn the corner and the ball carrier is dragged down from behind. Honest to God, Eli is all by himself about 6 or 7 yards behind the LOS. I have no explanation for why the center, on a running play, ends up so far away from the LOS with no one to block. Unfathomable.

I don't want to suggest that it's all Eli's fault. But, his best moments were as an OG as a freshman. He's barely been adequate since then. If Keenum isn't able to beat out Eli at this point, I wonder if Keenum is good enough to play next year.

Yeah, I see that stuff re E. Cox too but I tell myself I don't know anything about OL play especially after hearing high praise for Cox coming from such highly regarded OL experts Cublic/Stinchcomb, 2 super ex-SEC linemen. I ask myself: "What am I missing?"

 

[mrschwump]

Isn't it odd Wolford came after Coach Schlarman, developed no one, left for Bama and they've been deficient on the OL ever since. I think he's tremendously overrated. Mincey and the 2 Coxes are decent players but our line is awful, at best. Wolford iscanother of Stoops Youngstown buddies.

Alabama had an OT go in Round One last year, don't rightly recall but could've been Top 10.

 

[maysvilleky]

Alabama had an OT go in Round One last year, don't rightly recall but could've been Top 10.

He played OG in college. He’s learning to play LT at the pro level. Makes you wonder if he was misused in college?

 

[mrschwump]

He played OG in college. He’s learning to play LT at the pro level. Makes you wonder if he was misused in college?

Who knows, maybe they need an OG...that was Saban's call.

 

[mrschwump]

But isn't too convenient to wrap this up as recruiting misses and bad luck.
1. I get Goodwin was a big bust even Bama, Ohio St, etc...wanted.
2.. Nic Hall's back issues....had to hurt
3. Grant Bingham left football apparently


-But why did we not stick with Buford (who looked decent to me in 2022)?
-Why did Schlarman develop 2 star (Stenberg, Bunchy Stallings) and low rated 3 star (Fortner, Nassir Watkins was solid, Kenneth Horsey)....he never seemed to struggle near this poorly.....it's not like Oline recruits have changed a ton in past few years....it's the same kind of Oline for UK to recruit.
-Why did Kenneth Horsey play decline his last 2 years?
- Why was Eli Cox solid as Fr in 2021....and he's been worse as he's gotten older

We are now at a point, we have to grab 3 or more starters from portal (and they have not been dominate). THere is a clear teaching, scheme and or development problem at Oline.

And when Oline is a mess....the QB is impacted the most, the TE have to help pass block vs. in pass game, WR can't run deeper routes, etc.. So, we need to figure this spot out....quite honestly it may be the 2nd most vital spot on asst coaching staff.

Horsey had injury problems last year, Flax came out of nowhere to be serviceable. An old coach, don't remember who, once said: "The better players I have the luckier I get."

You're right, the OL is a mess but at least by moving Wood they're trying.

 

[Cobb4uk]

Horsey had injury problems last year, Flax came out of nowhere to be serviceable. An old coach, don't remember who, once said: "The better players I have the luckier I get."

You're right, the OL is a mess but at least by moving Wood they're trying.

I agree they're trying but I don't think our current OL coach is the answer. Seem like OC the RB coach, OL and WR coaches just don't jive together. I wonder who's going to be the one, or more, Stoops takes the fallout? Bet some gets fired at the seasons end.

 

[Tf2217]

I remember in Coens first year we were told we we’re going to start recruiting more athletic linemen so we could run the outside zone blocking scheme. Seems like we’ve been going downhill ever since .

The best thing about that is half way through coens first year we finally discovered that we were ass at outside zone and went back to inside power. So instead of just keeping running inside power we tried that crap outside zone with scang and then coen again and now with bush knowing good and damn well we suck ass at it.

 

[yoshukai]

Alabama had an OT go in Round One last year, don't rightly recall but could've been Top 10.

So that guy is talented. As a whole the oline play at Alabama was below their standard under Wolford and he was probably going to be replaced. I have several friends down at Bama and they used to give me hell for “sending Wolford down here” .

 

[Coach Marrow]

Schlarman and Gran worked well together in the run game and then Drake Jackson solidified everything back in the day. Now not so much.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

IMO…the real question is what has happened to our OL? Was Schlarman the best Oline coach that ever existed? Is it not recognizing talent? What is the deal?

Personally I think BV would be a pretty good QB if he wasn’t scared for his life on every drop back.

Its mainly because we don't play to their strengths. We blocked ga and ole miss well. Why? Because we ran the ball and went pa. Also because ray was in for jager.

This group does not excel at straight drop pass pro. No idea why they randomly decided we would just change our offense to that but here we are.

Several reaches.
Take ray for example and I like ray, he was a walk on transfer with no real experience and we're actively depending on him to be good. Our line is composed of transfers who basically did nothing in college. Or beat up (mincey, and Cox) The few we've recruited are not exactly world beaters either (Burton,)
Either through failure to develop or straight up trash talent evaluation is where we are at.

I never got the point of taking recruits based on ranking who never got to play, give me a Mac kid or something that's proven something.

Ray is probably the best OL on the team. Dont let us walk on status fool you. Last year he took horseys job and he should be starting now instead of jager.

We don't have reaches as much as we are just have guys we recruited for outside zone. I know you had to hire coen because he was such a rising star, but back then i expressed concern about losing our ID and going all in on outside zone because its a different OL. We did now we're trying to go back. Its tough because many of these guys were recruited for a different system.

You also have eli always being overrated. I cringe watching him try to run a qb sneak because he always comes off high and gets pushed back into brocks lap.

What more do i need to say about jager? I complained about him for 3 years now but hes still in there getting no movement or giving up penetration.

 

[Girthang]

But isn't too convenient to wrap this up as recruiting misses and bad luck.
1. I get Goodwin was a big bust even Bama, Ohio St, etc...wanted.
2.. Nic Hall's back issues....had to hurt
3. Grant Bingham left football apparently


-But why did we not stick with Buford (who looked decent to me in 2022)?
-Why did Schlarman develop 2 star (Stenberg, Bunchy Stallings) and low rated 3 star (Fortner, Nassir Watkins was solid, Kenneth Horsey)....he never seemed to struggle near this poorly.....it's not like Oline recruits have changed a ton in past few years....it's the same kind of Oline for UK to recruit.
-Why did Kenneth Horsey play decline his last 2 years?
- Why was Eli Cox solid as Fr in 2021....and he's been worse as he's gotten older

We are now at a point, we have to grab 3 or more starters from portal (and they have not been dominate). THere is a clear teaching, scheme and or development problem at Oline.

And when Oline is a mess....the QB is impacted the most, the TE have to help pass block vs. in pass game, WR can't run deeper routes, etc.. So, we need to figure this spot out....quite honestly it may be the 2nd most vital spot on asst coaching staff.

I'd say it's the first most vital on O.

 

[Girthang]

What more do i need to say about jager? I complained about him for 3 years now but hes still in there getting no movement or giving up penetration.

And penalties... (false starts, holds, and last year UCs.)

 

[Girthang]

I remember in Coens first year we were told we were going to start recruiting more athletic linemen so we could run the outside zone blocking scheme. Seems like we’ve been going downhill ever since .

Exactly. Caught between what was working and what it should never have been changed to in the first place

 

[PIGSKINCAT]

Go back 4-6 weeks ago, there was anatricle on KSR where Marrow is quoted as saying the offense will be fine when we get guys that fit the system. He did not specifically mention O Line but you have to wonder if that's what he was trying to tell us