Don't remember if this link had been posted but it is a solid read. It is a review the book: Cheated Pretty good stuff.
http://www.dcdave.com/article5/160107.htm
http://www.dcdave.com/article5/160107.htm
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North Carolina's NCAA academic case stuck in holding pattern
- Thread starter preacher_tom
- Start date
Im a gigantic Kentucky basketball fan and college basketball fan in general... I watch tons of games and so not miss kentucky. Many Kentuckians like me I am sure.
But i had a discussion with my UofL fan friends couple weeks ago about the North Carolina and UofL scandals.
I told them about UNC-Cheat delaying after the NOA by throwing soccer and womens basketball in.... and basically the NCAA agreeing to delay rulling.... And to me, This confirmed the NCAA would go easy on them and wanted the delay as well because UNC-Cheat was a favorite at the title.
I stated and still agree with, that if some how they do win the title this year, I Am done with college sports... it is too corrupt with NCAA favoritism and referee obvious gambling and influence on the game.
My friends barked at me and said i was nuts, told me im too big of a crazy Cat fan to ever give it up.
I RESPONDED AND SAID, wait and see, when your beloved Cardinals get smacked first and probably punished harder then what UNC gets, then we will see how you feel.
After louisville's self ban and great media attention, one of my lousiville fan friends confided in me that i was right and things really are crooked.
I already got rid of my satellite dish and have been streaming games for free online...i dont want to contribute any more money to the ncaa/espn untill i see some justice served correctly.
As far as im concerned atleast some banners vacated, 2 years probation, maybe tv ban, and definitely scholarship reduction.
UNC-Cheat, did worse then Syracuse by far and louisville, so the punishment should be fitting
But i had a discussion with my UofL fan friends couple weeks ago about the North Carolina and UofL scandals.
I told them about UNC-Cheat delaying after the NOA by throwing soccer and womens basketball in.... and basically the NCAA agreeing to delay rulling.... And to me, This confirmed the NCAA would go easy on them and wanted the delay as well because UNC-Cheat was a favorite at the title.
I stated and still agree with, that if some how they do win the title this year, I Am done with college sports... it is too corrupt with NCAA favoritism and referee obvious gambling and influence on the game.
My friends barked at me and said i was nuts, told me im too big of a crazy Cat fan to ever give it up.
I RESPONDED AND SAID, wait and see, when your beloved Cardinals get smacked first and probably punished harder then what UNC gets, then we will see how you feel.
After louisville's self ban and great media attention, one of my lousiville fan friends confided in me that i was right and things really are crooked.
I already got rid of my satellite dish and have been streaming games for free online...i dont want to contribute any more money to the ncaa/espn untill i see some justice served correctly.
As far as im concerned atleast some banners vacated, 2 years probation, maybe tv ban, and definitely scholarship reduction.
UNC-Cheat, did worse then Syracuse by far and louisville, so the punishment should be fitting
We've all heard it. If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it did it really make a noise? That's been UNC's approach all along. Deny, deny, deny, spend millions to promote their lies, wait it out, and hope the whole thing goes away. At least UK stood up like men, took the consequences, and moved on. Had UNC done that, they've be well on the other side of it now, and have a lot more money still in their coffers. I have completely lost all respect for the University of North Carolina as a academic institution of higher learning. And I once had plenty.
Agree. If UNC was truly interested in moving this case along why not go ahead and provide their response to the original allegations? Surely they can respond to the allegations at face value, even knowing that they will need to eventually respond to these additional charges as well?
Beyond that, it's a complete joke that UNC throws in these relatively minor additional charges and then proceeds to sit on their hands for a half year, when there's plenty of potentially huge violations out there, many of which Wainstein didn't even look at.
If UNC was truly interested in providing all the instances where they likely broke rules, I would expect a gusher of examples being regularly sent to UNC. Let's count a few:
1.) Wheels for Heels including on-campus parking perks
2.) the fact that players were 'joy-riding' around Durham with guns using the SUV of a known drug dealer (don't know about anyone else but that looks a lot to me like 'drug-running', not just 'joy-riding')
3.) Tami Hansbrough's job perks
4.) the whole Dental Foundation
5.) abuse of ADHD prognoses
6.) overprescription and illegal use of drugs by the UNC staff
7.) questionable classes outside AFAM (Jan Boxill, Naval class etc.)
8.) Pell Grant fraud
etc. etc.
2.) the fact that players were 'joy-riding' around Durham with guns using the SUV of a known drug dealer (don't know about anyone else but that looks a lot to me like 'drug-running', not just 'joy-riding')
3.) Tami Hansbrough's job perks
4.) the whole Dental Foundation
5.) abuse of ADHD prognoses
6.) overprescription and illegal use of drugs by the UNC staff
7.) questionable classes outside AFAM (Jan Boxill, Naval class etc.)
8.) Pell Grant fraud
etc. etc.
Does anyone really believe that UNC has investigated any of these things very deeply, and if they did would they provide that info to the NCAA?
No how no way. They're just hoping beyond hope that people will assume that the Wainstein report (which UNC bought and paid for, along with helping to construct the boundaries of his investigation) is all there is.
Fact of the matter is they haven't even gotten past the tip of the iceberg, their fraud is so massive.
Don't remember Preacherfan making such a claim. There is a process in place.
UNC WAS charged with major penalties last year. They had 90 days to respond and rather than do so, they used a delay tactic.
The process, BTW is that UNC is supposed to respond to the allegations within 90 days, and then a meeting of the COI (Committee on Infractions) is scheduled to hear the case and determine the penalties.
That still needs to be done, although with the delays it's anyone's guess when that might actually occur.
Once the NCAA provides an amended NOA then presumably the 90 day clock will resume (although I would argue that UNC's response to the original allegations should have already been submitted, there's no real reason to delay that at all IMO.)
As far as your comment that "the NCAA, after six more months, is now considering amending the NOA", I think you're confused.
First of all the NCAA didn't decide just now to amend the NOA. It was understood at the time UNC came up with their delaying tactic last year that the NCAA would amend the NOA to account for the new violations.
Secondly, the NCAA is not going to change the original charges, simply because UNC reported additional violations. Those original charges are still there and still need to be responded to. The 'amended' NOA should be the original NOA along with any additional charges (if the NCAA feels it's warranted).
You are off on just about everything you write preacherfan. This time you can't even recall your blatant predictions that UNC was going to be hit with major penalties which didn't happened, and it may never happen. The NCAA has taken no action on that original NOA but as the article plainly points out it could be ammended in either direction - more allegations or less allegations depending how the infractions committee reacts to UNC's response. The POINT you are not getting is that the NOA was just that - allegations, and nothing but allegations, not final charges. It's not that difficult to understand.
Not sure where in the article you conclude that the NCAA might amend the NOA in either direction. I reread the article and didn't see anything about them amending the NOA down. (Edit: Ok rereading third time I see where the author says 'or revises'. That's his prerogative to say, I guess, but not realistic IMO. Again why would the NCAA decide to reduce their charges? All UNC did was add additional violations to what was already there. If the NCAA did reduce their charges it would be AFTER UNC provides their response, which of course they've failed to do to date.)
Below are the most relevant sections, directly from the article:
As an aside, it's funny to read the Roy Williams quote. Again if UNC was so interested in getting to a speedier conclusion, why not go ahead and respond to the original allegations without hiding behind NCAA procedural delays? If they truly thought they were innocent then wouldn't they want to address the charges as soon as possible?
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Maybe. Whoever it is, you've got to hand it to them when they've only had 30 posts since the account was opened in 2001. That's a whole new level of sleeper cell.
No where in the article does it say that the NOA can be amended in either direction. That is an assumption you've made as to the meaning of the word "amended" when used in this context.
If you were you familiar with NCAA procedures, you would know that the NCAA does not re-open an investigation when they are considering withdrawing allegations. They simply withdraw the allegations.
The NCAA will re-open an investigation only when new information about potential new violations is discovered or provided by the school. Once the new investigation has been concluded, they will decide whether to leave the NOA as originally drafted or to amend it to include the new allegations.
We know that in this case, the investigation has been re-opened because of the additional information requests from the NCAA. This puts things back into the investigation timelines and pulls things out of the NOA/COI timeline.
With as vehemently as you went after preacher fan, I would have thought you'd understand how this works.
They are in their four corner stall until the NCAA comes out to guard them.
I went back and looked at some of the debate from the Summer when 63in62 apparently got his feelings hurt. I found a spirited debate between myself and some UNC posters about the NOA. This was one of the responses:
"Nick Horvath responded
You are obviously clueless about this situation if you think that LOIC and "probation" are even remotely close to the worst that can come out of this for UNC. LOIC and probation are exactly what UNC wants. Those are vague terms that are just juicy and might "sound" bad, but in reality, they don't impose any specific punishments."
To the UNC fans, I have to ask the same question Frazier Crane once asked Cliff Clavin, "What color is the sky in your world?"
Preacher, care to attach a link to the earlier debate? That'd be easier for everyone rather than to try to search for it ourselves.
Thanks
Sorry, JPS, no link. I saved some of the relevant debate to my computer. I just did a cut, copy, paste. Much of it was irrelevant. I just happened to see that quote by Nick and thought it was funny.
For the record, I have learned to save some parts of threads and tuck them away just for situations like this. I was debating another poster one time who kept denying things he had said previously so I just started saving some parts of threads just to pull up when he started doing it again. (This board can be so much fun at times!)
OK well I found it. It was a thread about Sacha Killeya-Jones and got into what UNC was telling him related to the scandal.
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/...ill-not-punish-unc.104013/page-3#post-1927134
It's funny because apparently this troll was caught using multiple aliases. Also uses DDS62.
No wonder he wanted to refer to previous arguments without actually linking what was said.
Ha, ha! Thanks for confirming the trollness. What an anal person that would create multiple ids over many years in order to nothing but troll. 63in62, you now are outed as total buffoon. You'll need to break out another one of those id's you have stashed.OK well I found it. It was a thread about Sacha Killeya-Jones and got into what UNC was telling him related to the scandal.
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/...ill-not-punish-unc.104013/page-3#post-1927134
It's funny because apparently this troll was caught using multiple aliases. Also uses DDS62.
No wonder he wanted to refer to previous arguments without actually linking what was said.
OK well I found it. It was a thread about Sacha Killeya-Jones and got into what UNC was telling him related to the scandal.
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/...ill-not-punish-unc.104013/page-3#post-1927134
It's funny because apparently this troll was caught using multiple aliases. Also uses DDS62.
No wonder he wanted to refer to previous arguments without actually linking what was said.
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
I had forgotten that! You just made a good day for me even better with that nugget. ![[banana]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1682178.gif "banana [banana]")
The perfect analogy to UNC's forthcoming penalties.
The grownups at UNC are corrupt and should be shown the door...not the ones who created this environment; the ones who continue to deny.
OK well I found it. It was a thread about Sacha Killeya-Jones and got into what UNC was telling him related to the scandal.
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/...ill-not-punish-unc.104013/page-3#post-1927134
It's funny because apparently this troll was caught using multiple aliases. Also uses DDS62.
No wonder he wanted to refer to previous arguments without actually linking what was said.
That's pretty funny. Nice find. I guess it's safe to assume we won't hear from 63in62/DDS62 until he returns in a few months to attack a poster for some innocuous post that he bizarrely holds a grudge against.
![[thumb2]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1684387.png "Thumbs Up 2 [thumb2]")
Using the handle of "DDS62", you have to believe he is one of the dentists that was involved in this whole UNC mess.
It amazes me how many major players in this scandal have come to our board to try and persuade us that the UNC Basketball Program has not committed any violations worthy of punishment.
This tells me that our little board(that some seem to think is irrelevant) has been able to draw an awful lot of concern from the purveyors of "The Carolina Way".
UNC's sham is EXPOSED!
The new strategy is now, to wait out everyone so that that they are dead or to old to remember the virtual classes and professors. We would like to continue your Honor.
The thing that makes me sick about all of this is, two or three teams have been investigated and got sanctions already, all the while this has been going on for what three years for UNCheat and no sanctions,not even self imposed
in all Fairness, they should keep UNCCheat out of ALL Tournaments until they present their final Findings back to the NCAA office.
"All homework should be presented before you get to go to the Dance young man."
I seriously would hope a person who actually graduated from college would be able to think and comprehend better than DDS62. The NOA isn 't that hard to understand but he struggles mightily to do so.
Maybe he got a root canal and they went too far. Dentists have to practice you know.
I'm guessin the silence on the part of ESPN and the NCAA is to give time to try and figure out how to keep Dean Smith out of it. If you start covering the facts, you can't keep Deano out of it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/13/s...-as-it-struggles-with-a-scandals-fallout.html
What does Dean Smith have to do with any of this? Nothing — and everything. Although Smith retired in 1997, four years after the paper classes began, rare is the person in North Carolina who thinks he knew about them, or that he would have looked the other way if he had. Smith was widely admired for his integrity and for the way he cared about his players, taking an interest in them as human beings, not just as basketball players, and pushing them to graduate and better their lives. Smith coined the phrase “The Carolina Way.” It stood for the idea that the University of North Carolina was a place where athletic excellence and academic excellence could exist side by side — and where the former did not necessarily corrupt the latter.
The paper-class scandal has shattered that illusion. On the one hand, younger alumni and current students view the scandal as “more an irritant than a source of shame,” Dylan Howlett, a former sportswriter for The Daily Tar Heel, told me. It also wasn’t all that big a shock. “Our generation grew up in a celebrity-oriented sports culture where winning trumps all,” he said. There is also a substantial percentage of the faculty that believes the problems revealed by Willingham’s whistle-blowing — which they deeply resent — have been adequately dealt with by the Folt administration. They just want the whole thing to go away.
But there is another, smaller group of faculty members, along with a large number of older alumni, people who were around during the Dean Smith era, who harbor a tremendous feeling of betrayal, a deep hurt that Smith’s Carolina Way devolved into a fraud. Let’s be honest: There are many big-time sports colleges where athletes are given a pass academically — and nobody cares. But Tar Heels fans always believed that North Carolina was better than that. Discovering that it wasn’t has hit them hard.
.......
Colloredo-Mansfeld told me that for all the reforms instituted by the administration, it has been unwilling to address the larger, tougher questions surrounding the relationship between academics and athletics. And he’s hardly the only one who feels that way.
“We entice these players to entertain the public and enrich their coaches by performing a vast amount of arduous, dangerous and unpaid work, with the opportunity for free education and the distant chance to ‘go pro’ as their only compensation,” Harry Watson, a history professor, has written. “Then we set up conditions which make the ‘education’ either meaningless or nearly unattainable. To me, this situation is fundamentally immoral.
What does Dean Smith have to do with any of this? Nothing — and everything. Although Smith retired in 1997, four years after the paper classes began, rare is the person in North Carolina who thinks he knew about them, or that he would have looked the other way if he had. Smith was widely admired for his integrity and for the way he cared about his players, taking an interest in them as human beings, not just as basketball players, and pushing them to graduate and better their lives. Smith coined the phrase “The Carolina Way.” It stood for the idea that the University of North Carolina was a place where athletic excellence and academic excellence could exist side by side — and where the former did not necessarily corrupt the latter.
The paper-class scandal has shattered that illusion. On the one hand, younger alumni and current students view the scandal as “more an irritant than a source of shame,” Dylan Howlett, a former sportswriter for The Daily Tar Heel, told me. It also wasn’t all that big a shock. “Our generation grew up in a celebrity-oriented sports culture where winning trumps all,” he said. There is also a substantial percentage of the faculty that believes the problems revealed by Willingham’s whistle-blowing — which they deeply resent — have been adequately dealt with by the Folt administration. They just want the whole thing to go away.
But there is another, smaller group of faculty members, along with a large number of older alumni, people who were around during the Dean Smith era, who harbor a tremendous feeling of betrayal, a deep hurt that Smith’s Carolina Way devolved into a fraud. Let’s be honest: There are many big-time sports colleges where athletes are given a pass academically — and nobody cares. But Tar Heels fans always believed that North Carolina was better than that. Discovering that it wasn’t has hit them hard.
.......
Colloredo-Mansfeld told me that for all the reforms instituted by the administration, it has been unwilling to address the larger, tougher questions surrounding the relationship between academics and athletics. And he’s hardly the only one who feels that way.
“We entice these players to entertain the public and enrich their coaches by performing a vast amount of arduous, dangerous and unpaid work, with the opportunity for free education and the distant chance to ‘go pro’ as their only compensation,” Harry Watson, a history professor, has written. “Then we set up conditions which make the ‘education’ either meaningless or nearly unattainable. To me, this situation is fundamentally immoral.
Re: UNCheat Scandal-Fake LD Diagnoses & Drugs vs. Fake
TheJungleWolf
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I got a response from Bell Wheelan. She said that she had never heard of such arbitrary LD/ADHD testing. Thanked me for the heads up. I replied by supplying that 2011/12 chart of testing above^^^, from BDevil
Wheelan just so happens to be the president of SACS, the agency that placed UNC on probation.
TheJungleWolf
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I got a response from Bell Wheelan. She said that she had never heard of such arbitrary LD/ADHD testing. Thanked me for the heads up. I replied by supplying that 2011/12 chart of testing above^^^, from BDevil
Wheelan just so happens to be the president of SACS, the agency that placed UNC on probation.
KABOOOOOM! Bell was very unhappy with UNC for lying and now this.....UNC needs to burn.
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