NCAA Championships or one and done players?

[Rhavicc]

We had experienced players to compliment the one and done players.

You start your OP off with "my opinion is we cannot have both.", yet we've had both, and were successful. Then Duke did the same. You're searching for a gripe that isn't there. You stretched your complaint out a bit further than it was actually able to stretch, and now you look a bit like an imbecile. Congratulations.

 

[Cindog28]

"I love one and done players as much as anyone, but with moderation. The UK Program continues to recruit over players instead of developing the skills of those already apart of the team."
Wow...
Derek Willis' skills were not developed? I saw him play as a senior at Bullitt East. NEVER would have thought he would become a 50% three-point shooter at UK!
Dominique Hawkins' skills have not improved? Anyone predict he would score 13 key points against UofL?

 

[W2R]

 

[W2R]

You start your OP off with "my opinion is we cannot have both.", yet we've had both, and were successful. Then Duke did the same. You're searching for a gripe that isn't there. You stretched your complaint out a bit further than it was actually able to stretch, and now you look a bit like an imbecile. Congratulations.

Op stating we can't have both

 

[StubbornPenny]

What I get it this:
Title teams don't win titles because of freshmen.
Elite 8 teams win titles because of seniors.

BRILLIANT.

 

[shutzhund]

Yeah come on people, do you want wins or championships?

Coz we can't have both.

Is that sarcasm or ignorance that prompted your post? Hopefully, sarcasm. As amateur of fact it had to be sarcasm.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

SMH....worst post of the year so far.

The cherry on top of this turd post was bringing up the "Unforgettables".

 

[jrpross]

We had experienced players to compliment the one and done players.

So has EVERY team we've had, along with one-year guys. Is your argument that no team with 13 freshmen will win a championship? Because I'd agree with that.

 

[weatherbird]

I know this will sound like a "duh" statement, but you have to score more points than the opposing team to win, and you have to win to get a championship. Experience doesn't get you wins, being better than the opposing team on the day of the game gets you wins. Different coaches will do it differently, and most ways will be successful to some degree. Some will win with offense, some with defense, some with freshman, and some with experience, while others will do it with a little of all. The fact is, every team has weaknesses, and winning a championship usually means you played 6 straight games against teams that weren't able to exploit those weaknesses.

Winning championships, fair or not, is mostly about matchups.

 

[Deli owl]

My opinion is we cannot have both. Quality experienced depth wins championships.

If your happy with Final Fours and elite eights, one and done players will get it done.

It appears the "player first" philosophy dictates a program goal of getting players to the NBA over any other goal.

I love one and done players as much as anyone, but with moderation. The UK Program continues to recruit over players instead of developing the skills of those already apart of the team.

My favorite team, the Unforgettables, reveals what good coaching can produce. Without the miracle shot, that team would have probably won an NCAA Championship.

Go pull for whichever team you follow and you will see they are doing worse than UK.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

So has EVERY team we've had, along with one-year guys. Is your argument that no team with 13 freshmen will win a championship? Because I'd agree with that.

Exactly. The 2015 team was loaded on returning players and still did not win it all.

2011 had a solid trio of returning vets (juniors and senior types even!) and did not win it all.

2014 was definitely all young frosh and one soph Poy pretty much and came closer to winning it all then 2015 or 2011. OP is clueless.

 

[BlueCat#8]

Everyone put this troll on ignore and we will never see them again.

 

[Bkocats]

"I love one and done players as much as anyone, but with moderation. The UK Program continues to recruit over players instead of developing the skills of those already apart of the team."
Wow...
Derek Willis' skills were not developed? I saw him play as a senior at Bullitt East. NEVER would have thought he would become a 50% three-point shooter at UK!
Dominique Hawkins' skills have not improved? Anyone predict he would score 13 key points against UofL?

shhhh, Cindy - you're talking logic and facts; some don't like that 'round here
Josh Harrelson and Deandre Liggins didn't develop, either, right?

This is a narrative the OP has either begun, before, or has inserted into other threads. All you can do is laugh, and say ok.

 

[Supafuzz75]

There's always that one dumb jackass on the board daily..

 

[BlueSince92]

Is that sarcasm or ignorance that prompted your post? Hopefully, sarcasm. As amateur of fact it had to be sarcasm.

Well-decduced. Kinda hope it wasn't a serious question though.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I am very happy with Cal as our coach.

Its easy to criticize from a fan's position. We (BBN) have been doing it ever since I remember.

I was a teenager during the late 80's/early 90's and those weren't the best of times. Fans were critical, for a reason.

I turned 20 in '92 and things were looking up, but 92-95 had many fans wondering if Pitino could win a title. Elite Eights and one Final Four weren't cutting it.

Then 96-98, things were great. Three Final games in a row. Two titles. Tubby never missed a beat taking over for Pitino.

By the time I turned 30 in '02, fans were wanting the "good ole days of Pitino" back. He only won one title, yet everyone remembered UK as totally dominant under him.

Then along came BCG. Uggh!

Now I turned 40 wearing my 2012 NCAA championship shirt. Life was good for all in BBN.

Now, four short years later and the system has failed. Doom and gloom. The title drought is unbearable.

Let's put it in perspective:

1959-1977- no titles.

1979-1995- no titles.

1999-2011- no titles.

Let's get a decade beyond a title before we throw in the towel and start pining for better days.

Cal, in just seven short seasons, has solidified himself as UK's second greatest coach (his 4 Final Fours and 1 title are second only to Rupp).

So why are people questioning him and his tactics?

I know it's human nature to question, but some people take it too far.

IMHO, we should just sit back and enjoy the ride. There will be ups and downs, but I'm good with that. We have one of the best in the business leading the way. He'll most likely get us another title or two before he leaves.

 

[KDcats11]

I used to think the OP was just stupid. Now it's clear as day that he isn't a UK fan.

 

[CELTICAT]

I used to think the OP was just stupid. Now it's clear as day that he isn't a UK fan.

This has been brought up already, but there's no reason the OP can't be both.

 

[brianpoe]

My opinion is we cannot have both. Quality experienced depth wins championships.

If your happy with Final Fours and elite eights, one and done players will get it done.

It appears the "player first" philosophy dictates a program goal of getting players to the NBA over any other goal.

I love one and done players as much as anyone, but with moderation. The UK Program continues to recruit over players instead of developing the skills of those already apart of the team.

My favorite team, the Unforgettables, reveals what good coaching can produce. Without the miracle shot, that team would have probably won an NCAA Championship.

The OP is a known troll. .... just read his previous posts.

Super Mega Trolll, has been since he arrived.

 

[Catswin9]

SMH....worst post of the year so far.

The cherry on top of this turd post was bringing up the "Unforgettables".

You must be very young to not appreciate The Unforgettable's.

 

[Catswin9]

I used to think the OP was just stupid. Now it's clear as day that he isn't a UK fan.

How much money have you donated to UK Athletics?

 

[Hoskins21]

How much money have you donated to UK Athletics?

Even idiots can give money away.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

How much money have you donated to UK Athletics?

considering he's a real UK fan... he's given more to UK than you have. Unless you are counting head aches and pains in the a$$ ...because you come out on top then.

 

[mebeblue2]

OP, in the past you have been accused of being a troll
i believe that your accusers were correct

 

[kentucky_wildcat_#1]

This thread title and the op's opinion on Kentucky basketball couldn't do a better job at sucking. I am not willing to do one or the other. We all know it's possible to win championships with your best players being OnenDones. Cal has already shown it's very possible. The 2012 title team led by one of the best Kentucky players in history in Davis says this thread is awful. Let's be honest here. If you don't recruit over your players every year you are coaching your team, you are not doing your job. The goal of every great coach is to recruit the best talent possible. If we can bring in a kid more talented than a very good basketball player in Willis, i say go for it. The best will always find their way and earn minutes. If you are expecting to see a team built like the unforgettables and win championships you might as well just get over it and move on. It's not going to happen with the way college basketball is set up nowadays. The elite programs in the country don't recruit the same way they did just 10 years ago. The schools that still recruit the old way will rarely do much damage once the Ncaa tourney starts and if they do luck out and make a final four, you better enjoy it. It would take another very long time before they could build another squad to copy. Those schools that hope they can find a diamond in the rough later on during their careers after 3 or 4 years of college basketball will usually run into a team built like Kentucky or Duke and not stand a chance. The talent advantage would be too much and you would be screaming to recruit better talent. Just take a second and imagine how awesome of a coaching job Cal is currently doing if just making elite 8s and final fours are boring some of our fans. My advice for you is to treat and enjoy a SO player the same as you once did the senior. That is about as much experience as these talented kids are going to get with how college basketball is going. Cal did bring Briscoe back so just learn to enjoy this kid's talent and last season at Kentucky. Take time and enjoy Willis and the time he has put in to get as good as he currently is. When you recruit the best talent year after year, it's rare you see many players on our roster like Willis. The guys that will put in the time to get better and earn their way into our line-up will probably still not be talented enough to start over one of our onendone talents. The guys that won't put in the time to get better just transfer or won't even think about joining up with Cal and Kentucky. It can suck at times, but most times, it's more fun and wins than boring/losses.

 

[armchairpg]

Like the other said the unforgettables went out in elite 8 so the point is ?

 

[CELTICAT]

Like the other said the unforgettables went out in elite 8 so the point is ?

They probably would have won the whole thing had they not lost, duh.

 

[BlueSince92]

This thread title and the op's opinion on Kentucky basketball couldn't do a better job at sucking

Didn't get very far though I probably agree with you, but I laughed rootbeer out my nose at this.

The folks at Skyline got a show.

 

[jrpross]

You must be very young to not appreciate The Unforgettable's.

I'll never forget the unforgettables (kinda the point I guess) But the funny thing is, you're saying that with all the one-and-dones that we'll never win a championship. Then you basically implied you wish we had more teams like that one........thaaaaaat didn't win a championship. You don't see the irony there?

 

[Poetax]

My opinion is we cannot have both. Quality experienced depth wins championships.

If your happy with Final Fours and elite eights, one and done players will get it done.

It appears the "player first" philosophy dictates a program goal of getting players to the NBA over any other goal.

I love one and done players as much as anyone, but with moderation. The UK Program continues to recruit over players instead of developing the skills of those already apart of the team.

My favorite team, the Unforgettables, reveals what good coaching can produce. Without the miracle shot, that team would have probably won an NCAA Championship.

I guess you don't want national championships either since your favorite team didn't win one. I guess going to a final 8 every 4 years is ok, but going to a final four over half the time is way more fun and the percentages of winning it all is way more doable.

 

[GOING FOR #9]

I think Steph curry should be suspended

 

[Cats192]

1. We've had ELITE 3 and 4 year players. Poythress, Lee? Guys that are that good don't typically stay. They have, and we didn't win with them. John Hood was supposed to be a good 4 year player. Nothig.

2. You can't predict who will stay. We thought Poythress and Lee would be one and done, but they were here 4 and 3 years. We thought Bledsoe would be here for more than 1, nope. It's hard to predict without recruiting significantly lower level talent, which brings me to point #3.

3. We've recruited guys like Hawkins and Willis who have had their moments, but they're not team makers. Having them as Juniors didn't MAKE last year's team. In fact, we struggled because of our lack of elite talent.

4. Elite talent wins. People always cite Darius Miller, who was great. But, take Davis and MKG off the team, and Miller isn't in a position to make key plays.

O&D's and 3-4 year players aren't mutually exclusive, nor are O&D players and winning

 

[LetsHang#9]

For reference, this is a thread started by OP a while ago. Enjoy...

The NCAA could change college basketball for the good by:
Allowing each school to have only 2 players in the top twenty per year. With no limit on kids ranked 21 and up. The rating service will have to be determined by NCAA officials.

This would eliminate mass departures from one or two teams each year. The one and done would be spread over 5-6 teams.

The best of all though would be allowing high school seniors to go right into the NBA developmental league.

It's become a running joke about the one and done kids being student-athletics. It's time to be transparent about the issue by allowing high schoolers to go right into the NBA. If a high school senior decides to be a student-athlete, they will have to stay in college for three years.

 

[UKGrad93]

So the OP is trying to say that Championship caliber players could never be one and done.

 

[2Dope15]

I do think Coach Cal is a good coach. The philosophy is what I am questioning.

You are probably the same person who complained and said Lee, Matthews and Poythress weren't any good for this team.

 

[jrpross]

For reference, this is a thread started by OP a while ago. Enjoy...

Oh yeah! Wow, forgot about that one. So this isn't even the OP's dumbest thread by a long shot.

 

[Bkocats]

Super Mega Trolll, has been since he arrived.

got what he wanted though - 2 pages and counting
not trashing on anyone, I responded, too

 

[kyjeff1]

Could be the worst take in Rafters history. We've all gone over these point ad nauseam, so there's not really a point in convincing you. Just know that you are indeed wrong. I can't believe you said we can't have titles when we won one with almost all freshmen in 2012, then used a team that got to the Elite 8 as your example of teams that can win titles. You have to be in the final four to win titles, the OAD system has gotten us more FF's in a short time frame than ever before. What the hell are you even saying?!?!?

I think the OP is struggling to make his point correctly.
I think he does have a slight point… slight. I think Cal's focus is mainly on getting players to the pros, which he is very successful at. But it sets the next season's team back and we end up with another young team.
The 2012 title team was what the OP wants to see more of if I understand him correctly. That team had really good veterans (with the talent Cal gets, a sophomore is as good as most top senior vets on anyone elses squad), to go with a great group of freshmen. One of the vets was a great shooter. If we could do that we would put a lot of banners in the rafters. 2015 was another team with a perfect mix of talent and veterans.
Instead though, we usually end up with a clean sheet of players almost every year. I love having these players, I just wish there was a 2 year rule so we could keep them around longer. Even if it means we miss out on a few players. I think experienced talent is far better than freshmen talent (duh).
All those fans from rival schools, like UL that keep their players for 4 years, have plenty to say about Cal only winning one title with "all that NBA talent" don't understand that their coaches are the ones underachieving. They keep their players for 4 years, how many titles do they have? Let Cal keep his players for 4 years and see what happens.
Again, I love having all these great players but I could care less about the NBA, I care about UK and it's successes.

 

[kyjeff1]

Exactly. The 2015 team was loaded on returning players and still did not win it all.

2011 had a solid trio of returning vets (juniors and senior types even!) and did not win it all.

2014 was definitely all young frosh and one soph Poy pretty much and came closer to winning it all then 2015 or 2011. OP is clueless.

Well, you're right, the 2015 team didn't win it but come on, 9 times out of ten that team wins it all.
The 2012 and 2015 UK teams were dream teams. One came through, one didn't.

 

[KentuckyRLD]

My opinion is we cannot have both. Quality experienced depth wins championships.

If your happy with Final Fours and elite eights, one and done players will get it done.

It appears the "player first" philosophy dictates a program goal of getting players to the NBA over any other goal.

I love one and done players as much as anyone, but with moderation. The UK Program continues to recruit over players instead of developing the skills of those already apart of the team.

My favorite team, the Unforgettables, reveals what good coaching can produce. Without the miracle shot, that team would have probably won an NCAA Championship.

This one gets my vote as dumbest post of all time on any board any where.