Most important positions/roles in sports?

[JonathanW]

How would you rank them in terms of IMPORTANCE to their team winning (I'm just looking at the big 4 major US team sports)?

(in no particular order):
football QB
basketball PG
baseball Pitcher
hockey Goalie
Any other positions you think?


I'm going:
1- Pitcher, if he does bad enough, the only way you win is by scoring a LOT of runs
2- Goalie, same as pitcher, except the defense can be good enough to not let many shots get to him
Next one is tough.
3- PG, I started to say QB, but PG plays both offense and defense. But QB is generally more impactful on offense.
4- QB

 

[J_Dee]

Fanbuzz: The Most Important Positions in Baseball, Ranked Definitively From 1-9

The pitcher's definitely the most important position on a baseball team. But catcher's a solid second.

 

[funKYcat75]

Hockey goalie. The speed of the game and the length of the ice means they have to be ON at all times. A puck could be heading your way at any point in time.

 

[DreadLox]

Your 1st coach. Baseball. Soccer. Basketball. Whatever. When you're a kid that age, it's like Moses.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Your 1st coach. Baseball. Soccer. Basketball. Whatever. When you're a kid that age, it's like Moses.

 

[WayneDougan]

How would you rank them in terms of IMPORTANCE to their team winning (I'm just looking at the big 4 major US team sports)?

(in no particular order):
football QB
basketball PG
baseball Pitcher
hockey Goalie
Any other positions you think?


I'm going:
1- Pitcher, if he does bad enough, the only way you win is by scoring a LOT of runs
2- Goalie, same as pitcher, except the defense can be good enough to not let many shots get to him
Next one is tough.
3- PG, I started to say QB, but PG plays both offense and defense. But QB is generally more impactful on offense.
4- QB

No offense, this list is flat wrong. The QB in pro football is by far the most important position and this is proven out by the betting line movement when the starting Pro Bowl QB is scratched due to injury vs an All-Pro any other position.

PG is the least important and shouldn’t be on the list. It’a as simple as saying “who is more important to his team: LeBron James or DeAngelo Russell?

 

[Myotis]

Catcher in baseball.
Goalie in soccer.

 

[WayneDougan]

Goalie in soccer.

So having a good goalie is more important that having Lionel Messi?

 

[JonathanW]

No offense, this list is flat wrong. The QB in pro football is by far the most important position and this is proven out by the betting line movement when the starting Pro Bowl QB is scratched due to injury vs an All-Pro any other position.

PG is the least important and shouldn’t be on the list. It’a as simple as saying “who is more important to his team: LeBron James or DeAngelo Russell?

No offense, but you are wrong, because you are basing it on a flawed assumption. Why does an injury to the starting QB change the betting line more, because most teams have a huge quality-gap between their starting QB and backup(s). Whereas hockey teams know how important goalie play is and generally have a good backup. In football, if your QB goes down, just run the ball a bunch. Also betting lines are not a gauge of importance, but rather a gauge of PERCIEVED importance by those who will be betting. Just like UK, UNC, Duke often have lower betting odds than they probably should because there are so many who will bet on them to win just because of who they are (& Vegas knows that). In baseball, due to the nature of the game, playing daily rather than weekly, teams have at least 5 starting pitchers, generally with the top 3 all pretty solid. Baseball finds SP so valuable, a top SP earns as much as a top player at any other position, even though he plays in 1/5 as many games, and approximately 1/6 or 1/7 as many innings. One way you could assess it is by determining how much higher a % do teams pay for that position over other positions. But even then, that doesn't take into account how often that player is on the field/court.

You may be right about the PG. Because other positions/players can often fill that role quite well (like a Lebron).

 

[chroix]

Pitcher
Goalie
QB
The person with the broom in curling
PG

 

[WayneDougan]

No offense, but you are wrong, because you are basing it on a flawed assumption. Why does an injury to the starting QB change the betting line more, because most teams have a huge quality-gap between their starting QB and backup(s). Whereas hockey teams know how important goalie play is and generally have a good backup. In football, if your QB goes down, just run the ball a bunch. Also betting lines are not a gauge of importance, but rather a gauge of PERCIEVED importance by those who will be betting. Just like UK, UNC, Duke often have lower betting odds than they probably should because there are so many who will bet on them to win just because of who they are (& Vegas knows that). In baseball, due to the nature of the game, playing daily rather than weekly, teams have at least 5 starting pitchers, generally with the top 3 all pretty solid. Baseball finds SP so valuable, a top SP earns as much as a top player at any other position, even though he plays in 1/5 as many games, and approximately 1/6 or 1/7 as many innings. One way you could assess it is by determining how much higher a % do teams pay for that position over other positions. But even then, that doesn't take into account how often that player is on the field/court.

This is wrong. There are literally metrics that prove why it is wrong. And if you don't like metrics just look at salary (owners pay for value).

• Everybody knows the QB is the most important position in sports. That's why starting QBs make $45M+ on average these days.
  • The line matters because Vegas knows what happens when you lose your QB - it's literally the most important player you can lose. And the likelihood of you winning goes down significantly.
  • Yes, the importance of the difference between starter and backup matters. But using that as a guide makes your starting pitcher, goalie, or PG point irrelevant. If you can just replace them, who cares?
  • BTW, my favorite line is "if your QB goes down, just run the ball a bunch". Lord have mercy... what a take! How did that work out for SF when they lost Purdy and their backup in the same playoff game?
• Starting pitchers do make a lot, but they can only pitch 1/5 of the games.
  • The WAR (wins above replacement) for the best starting pitcher is usually slightly below the highest WAR for the best hitters.
  • If you are referring to a single game, then yes, I'd rather have Chris Sale than Aaron Judge. But for an entire season, I'd rather have Judge, Soto, Betts, or a healthy Acuna over Chris Sale,
• Hockey Goalie:
  • The best goalies make about 60% of the salary the best hockey forwards make.
  • But sure, if you don't have a goalie in hockey - like that position doesn't get filled - you will probably lose every game. Then again, if you don't fill your pitcher position you won't even be able to play the game.
• Point Guard:
  • I think you admitted it, but positions in basketball are sort of arbitrary anyway.

 

[BankerCat12]

C in regard to football. The QB isnt getting the ball if the dude decides not to hike it. Just being realistic. Once the ball is hiked, definitely the QB.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

This is wrong. There are literally metrics that prove why it is wrong. And if you don't like metrics just look at salary (owners pay for value).

• Everybody knows the QB is the most important position in sports. That's why starting QBs make $45M+ on average these days.
  • The line matters because Vegas knows what happens when you lose your QB - it's literally the most important player you can lose. And the likelihood of you winning goes down significantly.
  • Yes, the importance of the difference between starter and backup matters. But using that as a guide makes your starting pitcher, goalie, or PG point irrelevant. If you can just replace them, who cares?
  • BTW, my favorite line is "if your QB goes down, just run the ball a bunch". Lord have mercy... what a take! How did that work out for SF when they lost Purdy and their backup in the same playoff game?
• Starting pitchers do make a lot, but they can onlypitch 1/5 of the games.
  • The WAR (wins above replacement) for the best starting pitcher is usually slightly below the highest WAR for the best hitters.
  • If you are referring to a single game, then yes, I'd rather have Chris Sale than Aaron Judge. But for an entire season, I'd rather have Judge, Soto, Betts, or a healthy Acuna over Chris Sale,
• Hockey Goalie:
  • The best goalies make about 60% of the salary the best hockey forwards make.
  • But sure, if you don't have a goalie in hockey - like that position doesn't get filled - you will probably lose every game. Then again, if you don't fill your pitcher position you won't even be able to play the game.
• Point Guard:
  • I think you admitted it, but positions in basketball are sort of arbitrary anyway.

Well boys. The “suits” have spoken

 

[Ron Mehico]

Putting PG in front of QB is insanity. Some of the greatest teams like the bulls, Lakers with Shaq and Kobe, even our 2012 championship team has the PG as their 3rd or 4th best overall player.

 

[*CatinIL*]

QB in FB
Catcher/Pitcher in BB

 

[UKnCincy]

How would you rank them in terms of IMPORTANCE to their team winning (I'm just looking at the big 4 major US team sports)?

(in no particular order):
football QB
basketball PG
baseball Pitcher
hockey Goalie
Any other positions you think?


I'm going:
1- Pitcher, if he does bad enough, the only way you win is by scoring a LOT of runs
2- Goalie, same as pitcher, except the defense can be good enough to not let many shots get to him
Next one is tough.
3- PG, I started to say QB, but PG plays both offense and defense. But QB is generally more impactful on offense.
4- QB

A hockey goalie is not more important than a football QB.

If you gave any hockey coach the option of adding either Wayne Gretzky or Dominik Hasek to their team, coaches would take Wayne Gretzky every time.

Even when he was at his most dominant, it was impossible for Hasek to win a game for a team. The most he could do is secure a tie. It was up to Hasek’s teammates to score enough points to win the game. Gretzky, however, could go out and win the game for you.

And it’s the same with a football QB. They can win the game for you.

 

[WayneDougan]

A hockey goalie is not more important than a football QB.

If you gave any hockey coach the option of adding either Wayne Gretzky or Dominik Hasek to their team, coaches would take Wayne Gretzky every time.

Even when he was at his most dominant, it was impossible for Hasek to win a game for a team. The most he could do is secure a tie. Gretzky, however, could go out an win the game for you.

And it’s the same with a football QB. They can win the game for you.

I guess it depends on what the OP’s view of importance is. Does it mean that you flat out removed the player and didn’t replace him? Or does it mean where you would try to get the best player you can. If it’s the former, then yes, hockey goalie would be pretty damn important. And without a pitcher / center you couldn’t even play the game. If it’s the latter, it’s gotta be the QB.

 

[thabigbluenation]

Which sport brings home the most money? Which position has the most influence on the most gambled on sport in the US?

Pitchers only get to influence every so many games. STL has taken a drop off since yadi retired. He was the heart and soul of that era, not Pujols.

QB/catcher for me

 

[J_Dee]

If we're talking "roles" -- we're overlooking a key role that every sport has: the officials. Your team can have the best of the best, but it wouldn't matter one whit if certain clowns are directing the game.

Spoiler

 

[HeismaNole]

Goalie
QB
Pitcher

 

[Steven1221]

Rider in a cycling Grand Tour. Pogacar don't need a good O-Line to suceed.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

NASCAR - Driver
Swimming - Swimmer
Curling - QB

 

[JonathanW]

The hockey goalie cannot win you a game. But he is by far the biggest factor in you losing a game. And you have 5 guys trying to win you the game at any one time.

Someone said look at how much QBs make. Ok, then look at how much SP rotations make, close to $100M, double what NFL teams spend on QBs. But on the other hand the QB position is 1 of 22 (or 24) positions for a team, whereas the P is 1 of 9 (or 10) positions on a team. So perhaps % wise QBs do make more.
It’s not a slam-dunk decision.

If you have 2 comparable teams playing a game in each sport, and for 1 of the 2 football teams you replace a good QB with a bad QB (Reich for Jim Kelly), how much do their odds of winning go down. Not talking Vegas odds, those are based on the % of people expected to bet a certain way, which is different than the chances of winning.
Then do the same replacing a good goalie with a bad goalie, and a good pitcher with a bad pitcher (a 6.00 ERA guy for Pedro Martinez) with an overused bullpen so you are going to leave him in at least 7 innings. And I still say it is pitcher, then goalie, then QB. But it’s a reasonably close debate.

 

[JonathanW]

NASCAR - Driver
Swimming - Swimmer
Curling - QB

1 isn’t a sport, 1 isn’t a team sport, and 1 it’s hard to even take seriously

 

[GeraldV]

NFL QB is easily the most important position in the largest league. And there’s only about 10-12 of them that are good. So if you have one of those that’s 1.

Hockey goalies can get hot and win a series for their team, so I’d put them at 2.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

1 isn’t a sport, 1 isn’t a team sport, and 1 it’s hard to even take seriously

Ok..

Formula 1 - tires

 

[UKnCincy]

The hockey goalie cannot win you a game. But he is by far the biggest factor in you losing a game. And you have 5 guys trying to win you the game at any one time.

Someone said look at how much QBs make. Ok, then look at how much SP rotations make, close to $100M, double what NFL teams spend on QBs. But on the other hand the QB position is 1 of 22 (or 24) positions for a team, whereas the P is 1 of 9 (or 10) positions on a team. So perhaps % wise QBs do make more.
It’s not a slam-dunk decision.

If you have 2 comparable teams playing a game in each sport, and for 1 of the 2 football teams you replace a good QB with a bad QB (Reich for Jim Kelly), how much do their odds of winning go down. Not talking Vegas odds, those are based on the % of people expected to bet a certain way, which is different than the chances of winning.
Then do the same replacing a good goalie with a bad goalie, and a good pitcher with a bad pitcher (a 6.00 ERA guy for Pedro Martinez) with an overused bullpen so you are going to leave him in at least 7 innings. And I still say it is pitcher, then goalie, then QB. But it’s a reasonably close debate.

The goalie is not “by far” the biggest factor in losing a game.

I’ve been playing ice hockey for over 30 years. When you have a decent defensive team, it’s pretty common for a goalie to never even get tested during a game.

As long as a goalie isn’t totally inept, a team can still easily win a lot of games with an average goalie.

 

[JonathanW]

Ok..

Formula 1 - tires

We had this discussion on here like 20 years ago.
I believe to be a sport it needs:
- a competition, with a winner and a loser that is not pre-determined (no pro wrestling)
- outcome (winner) is primarily objective, not subjectively determined (sorry diving, gymnastics, figure skating, pro boxing, surfing, bull riding)
- there needs to be some level of athleticness used (so not competitive sewing, or spelling bees, or "E-Sports")
- the winner needs to be the primary force of the activity (so not horse racing unless you are saying a sport between horses then is absolutely one, and not car racing)

There are a number of competitive events that require high levels of athleticism which are not sports. That does not demean them. They are their own thing, and can be very entertaining and interesting.
And there are some sports, which barely fit (golf & bowling) mainly to having a low level of athleticism involved, but there is a tiny bit involved.

 

[JonathanW]

The goalie is not “by far” the biggest factor in losing a game.

I’ve been playing ice hockey for over 30 years. When you have a decent defensive team, it’s pretty common for a goalie to never even get tested during a game.

As long as a goalie isn’t totally inept, a team can still easily win a lot of games with an average goalie.

So an argument like that, makes me consider dropping goalie behind QB. Although I think much of that could be said about having an average QB; just play good defense and run the ball more, Baltimore won a Super Bowl that way.

 

[UKnCincy]

So an argument like that, makes me consider dropping goalie behind QB. Although I think much of that could be said about having an average QB; just play good defense and run the ball more, Baltimore won a Super Bowl that way.

In modern FB, I’d say examples like Baltimore are the exception more than the rule. If you’re talking old school football, I’d assign less value to the role of the QB.

But in hockey, if you look at the championship teams and force me to make a choice between the goalie and the best non-goalie player, I’m almost always choosing the skater over the goalie.

I’m taking Mike Bossy over Billy Smith, or Wayne Gretzky over Grant Fuhr, or Mario Lemieux over Tom Barrasso. I’d even take Yzerman over Osgood and Messier over Richter.

Dominik Hasek’s run in Buffalo was the most dominant goaltending the game has ever seen. The guy won 6 Vezina’s in 8 years, but the Sabres as a team don’t have much to show for that time period. And guys like Price or Luongo were excellent goalies, but they weren’t leading their teams to championships.

Goalie is just a unique position in sports where it helps raise the floor of the team, and once every 5 or 10 games or so, an elite goalie delivers a performance that helps elevate a team to a win when they’re having an off night. There’s definitely value to that.

But in the aggregate, goalies are not as big of a driver of wins as things like the skaters’ ability to play as a unit and the quality of your first line forwards.

The Hart Trophy has been awarded something like 100 times, and goalies have only won it 8 times. There’s a reason for that.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

We had this discussion on here like 20 years ago.
I believe to be a sport it needs:
- a competition, with a winner and a loser that is not pre-determined (no pro wrestling)
- outcome (winner) is primarily objective, not subjectively determined (sorry diving, gymnastics, figure skating, pro boxing, surfing, bull riding)
- there needs to be some level of athleticness used (so not competitive sewing, or spelling bees, or "E-Sports")
- the winner needs to be the primary force of the activity (so not horse racing unless you are saying a sport between horses then is absolutely one, and not car racing)

There are a number of competitive events that require high levels of athleticism which are not sports. That does not demean them. They are their own thing, and can be very entertaining and interesting.
And there are some sports, which barely fit (golf & bowling) mainly to having a low level of athleticism involved, but there is a tiny bit involved.

What about bowling? You can drink and smoke while doing it.

 

[cole854]

• Starting pitchers do make a lot, but they can onlypitch 1/5 of the games.
  • The WAR (wins above replacement) for the best starting pitcher is usually slightly below the highest WAR for the best hitters.
  • If you are referring to a single game, then yes, I'd rather have Chris Sale than Aaron Judge. But for an entire season, I'd rather have Judge, Soto, Betts, or a healthy Acuna over Chris Sale,

Each game is on its own merit....and if I have a Smoltz/Glavine/Maddux, then I am winning most every series I play in the season, regardless of your hitters. And please stop with WAR.

 

[Kaizer Sosay]

A dehydrated team is a losing team. So my answer, regardless of the sport, is…

 

[WayneDougan]

Each game is on its own merit....and if I have a Smoltz/Glavine/Maddux, then I am winning most every series I play in the season, regardless of your hitters. And please stop with WAR.

TOP WAR 2024 (currently):

• Witt Jr
• Judge
• Soto
• Lindor
• Henderson
• Duran
• Ohtani
• Your boy De La Cruz
• Sale

Funny as these are pretty much the best players in baseball. So the stat isn't perfect but it's definitely directionally correct.

Sale's ERA is 2.46. The league average ERA is 4.12. So he gives up about 1.3 fewer runs per the ~7 innings he usually goes than an average pitcher. That's more valuable on a single game level than the guys ahead of him on the list. But divided over 5 games (4 of which Sale isn't pitching), the guys above him are more valuable.

 

[JonathanW]

What about bowling? You can drink and smoke while doing it.

It is primarily skill based. But there is a teenie tiny bit of athleticism involved.
I don't care about the drinking/smoking part. I suppose you could do those while playing football or soccer or any sport, although not very well.
But I wouldn't be offended for someone to say it's not one.

 

[gamecockcat]

Not a huge hockey fan but The Avalanche have been knocking on the door of a Stanley Cup for several years (won one) and pretty much the only thing holding them back is a top flight goalie. They have great forwards and defensemen but goalie play, especially in the playoffs, can carry a team to the Cup.

Having said that, I think QB in the NFL is the most important. And, starting pitcher in baseball << lights out closer who will pitch in many more game and be directly responsible for winning/losing in crunch time much more frequently.

 

[UKnCincy]

Not a huge hockey fan but The Avalanche have been knocking on the door of a Stanley Cup for several years (won one) and pretty much the only thing holding them back is a top flight goalie. They have great forwards and defensemen but goalie play, especially in the playoffs, can carry a team to the Cup.

Having said that, I think QB in the NFL is the most important. And, starting pitcher in baseball << lights out closer who will pitch in many more game and be directly responsible for winning/losing in crunch time much more frequently.

Colorado won a Stanley Cup just two years ago.

And they did it with Darcy Kuemper in net, which supports my point about the relative importance of goalies when compared to QBs. Kuemper was pretty shaky at times that season.

 

[JonathanW]

Colorado won a Stanley Cup just two years ago.

And they did it with Darcy Kuemper in net, which supports my point about the relative importance of goalies when compared to QBs. Kuemper was pretty shaky at times that season.

I'm not saying (any longer) that Goalie should be ahead of QB. But citing an example (N=1) does not ever prove a point.
Trent freakin Dilfer won a SB.
So did Jim Plunket, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, Nick Foles, Ken Stabler, Mark Rypien, Joe Namuth, and Eli Manning. Several of those guys had more career INTs than TDs. That is 25% of the winning Super Bowl QBs were at best Mediocre!

 

[UKnCincy]

I'm not saying (any longer) that Goalie should be ahead of QB. But citing an example (N=1) does not ever prove a point.
Trent freakin Dilfer won a SB.
So did Jim Plunket, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, Nick Foles, Ken Stabler, Mark Rypien, Joe Namuth, and Eli Manning. Several of those guys had more career INTs than TDs. That is 25% of the winning Super Bowl QBs were at best Mediocre!

I think you missed the point I was making with respect to Colorado.

I was responding to a specific poster who mentioned that recent Colorado teams were an example of the importance of goalies. I was simply pointing out that the Colorado teams he mentioned actually supported the complete opposite view.

Colorado won a championship for many of the reasons I referred to in an earlier post, and not because of their goalie.

Let’s use game 6 of the 2022 finals as an example to illustrate the point. If you’ve watched enough sports, then you know that an elimination game in the Stanley Cup finals is arguably the most intense event in professional sports, especially in the 3rd period if it’s a close game.

Heading into the 3rd period of game 6, Tampa Bay (2 time defending champs) was down 1 goal and facing elimination. At the point when Tampa Bay would be playing at peak intensity and aggressiveness, Colorado held them to just four shots on goal. Only four shots means that it was Colorado’s skaters who locked the Lightning down and not the goalie.

Colorado wasn’t leaning on their goalie to consistently win games. They just needed him to be competent in net. If he was able to excel in a game here or there to help steal a win, then that was a luxury on top of the value that the skaters already brought to the table.

And that dynamic is pretty typical for hockey teams. I do not deny that in a single game, a goalie can play so well that it elevates a team to a win when they’ve otherwise been outperformed. I’ve played in a number of games where we probably should’ve lost but won because our goalie was on fire and the other team couldn’t get anything past him. I’ve also been completely frustrated to lose a game where we dominated the other team, had scoring opportunity after scoring opportunity and lost because the goalie blocked everything. It happens.

Goalies bring value and can help win a single game. What I’m saying is that over the course of many games, the goalie is not the biggest factor in winning. If you’re on a good team, you just need your goalie to be competent. If he steals a win here or there, that’s just icing on the cake.