More proof we are going to be ok without Cal

[UKSanders]

This is so untrue. Just go back over the last 10 years and look at the kids who everyone thought would be great. Many are, but many also struggled and failed to live up to expectations. This is what other fans would say to make themselves feel better about losing recruiting battles. We have a couple too. Coaching isn’t the only thing that contributes to the success or failure of a player in the league.

Our fans hate for Cal blinds them from acknowledging something that he actually is amazing at, which is preparing these kids for the NBA. What other school has anywhere near the number of max contracts currently? What about the number of players who sign huge contracts compared to how many get drafted overall?

Say what you want about Cals coaching, but to deny his ability to recruit, get kids to the league, and have them go on to see huge success is just making yourself look silly.

I think the problem is no one denied his ability to recruit elite individual players (I think there is some reasonable argument the last few years that he didn't recruit players that complemented each other well enough to form a balanced unit).

However, I have some issue with the wording of the following:

• What other school has anywhere near the number of max contracts currently?
  • Are you asking total number or %? That matters b/c everyone can acknowledge that Cal & Coach K were signing more elite recruits than anyone else, so the 2 of them should have the most players with max contracts. But, what about percent of "top" recuits that those guys signed who ended up with max contracts compared to other coaches? That would be a better indicator of their ability to consistently "develop" them for max contracts. My guess is the sample size won't be high enough for other coaches to make this a valuable statistic
• Say what you want about Cals coaching, but to deny his ability to recruit, get kids to the league and have them go on to see huge success is just making yourself look silly
  • I would argue the underlined portion isn't specific to Cal... as stated above, so many of his 1 and done would've been in the league regardless of where they played. In fact, most of them would not have played for Cal had the 1 and done rule been in place.
  • "go on to have huge success" - I don't think anyone is arguing that Cal hasn't had former players go on to have HUGE success in the league. I think the argument most are making is how much of that is likely attributable to Cal. I won't say he hasn't helped players at all. but I am also not saying these contracts are directly related to skills he helped them develop that no one else was going to do.

 

[NociHTTP]

Whenever I accepted that Cal’s main priority is getting guys drafted, hearing stuff like this made a lot more sense. I remember trying to rationalize this stuff as for recruiting, etc. I really think Cal feels his main job is player development and preparing them for the next level. Fox pretty much said how Cal views the actual games/results.

I've been saying this all along. Cal was never about UK, he was about being the best paid NBA mentor / agent / recruiter. If Fox said that, why weren't there players on Cal's teams saying "hold up, I thought we were here for UK!".

 

[ukcatz12]

That wasn't his job. Why do we move the goal post when discussing Cal??

Did I say it was his job?

 

[NociHTTP]

I think there's an argument to be made while most of Cal's guys would have gotten to the NBA without him, he set them up for success while in the NBA. Look at the difference between Cal's guys and K's guys when it comes to getting that second contract and having longevity in the league. I do think there's a reason the NBA is full of established former UK guys.

His job was never to set them up for success in the NBA. His job was to set them up for success at UK.

 

[ukcatz12]

His job was never to set them up for success in the NBA. His job was to set them up for success at UK.

I never said his job was to set them up for NBA success.

 

[SemperFiCat]

This entire "Cal got these guys paid" debate sounds eerily like the Hoosiers' "Bobby Knight made good young men". These are both strawman arguments. Propping up coaches who weren't fulfilling their primary job as coach. Sure, those secondary things are fantastic, IF they are prioritized correctly and the winning is happening. But what many fail to realize is that Cal prioritized the NBA part because it was the easiest part of the job. He was taking credit for getting NBA talent paid. That's way easier than roster management, film study, winning big games, answering tough questions and cutting down nets. So, he distracted us with the easier thing to stroke his ego. Convincing many of us that it's a main part of the job that he's excelling at, and tried to make himself the saint with the "ending generational poverty" spin. Cal prioritized the easiest thing to make himself look good. He was too scared to really tackle the hard stuff.

 

[Bluesbrother]

He is hellbent on doing it his way. He’d rather go down playing his style than admit other ways are effective. Once arky fans start to question him, they’ll hear the same tired phrases we got in Lexington.

... and that "questioning" won't take long. It's not like they will have to figure it our themselves.

 

[UKFBFan78]

I think there's an argument to be made while most of Cal's guys would have gotten to the NBA without him, he set them up for success while in the NBA. Look at the difference between Cal's guys and K's guys when it comes to getting that second contract and having longevity in the league. I do think there's a reason the NBA is full of established former UK guys.

Yes. Cal has more of the top recruits. There's your reason. Take cals first 10 recruiting classes, that's where all the players with max contracts originated. Then compare those to any other school during that time frame. Duke is only one that even comes close to the same talent level

 

[DreadLox]

Too many other coaches drew from the same pool of ranked players and haven't had Calipari's success in getting players to succeed in the league.

Calipari taught them something. What he didn't do was care about tournaments or individual games.

 

[NociHTTP]

I never said his job was to set them up for NBA success.

"he set them up for success while in the NBA"

 

[CB3UK]

"More proof we are going to be OK without Cal"

WTF kind of thread title is this? What fan is still worried about life after Cal?

 

[m080470]

It was these kind of inane, stupid comments from him that would send me into a cold sweat the last few years. Got a little jeebed out for two seconds and then realized this is an Arkansas problem now and happily went on with my day.

 

[chroix]

SOB can field an entire all star team by himself but can’t get past St Peters.

 

[UK90]

It seems like everything Cal talks about has something to do with the NBA.

Makes me wonder why he doesn’t coach in that league anymore.

Easy answer. They don’t want him.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Of course we are going to be ok. We are Kentucky.

And if a coach isn't a dumb drunk he is gonna win at least 1 title and make 1 to 4 final fours. I'm basing this on post the GOAT Rupp. He's n a league of his own at UK.

Pope isn't a dumb drunk so I expect a title and 2 to 4 final fours the next decade if he is here that long.

 

[Blueaz]

Well... SGA, Book, and Murray all dominate the mid range.

Book developed his in the NBA not at UK. I am not sure about the others

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

So glad the era of Kentucky Basketball being used as an NBA farm system as a pit stop before these guys jet off to the league is over. All of that talent with one National Championship to show for.

 

[Mike-McD]

When you look at the staggering number of great NBA players from Cal’s time at Kentucky, the legacy question will alway be, “why didn’t he win more?”

Even Dale Brown, who went 0-for-Shaq in three years, be like "damn."

 

[Wonky]

I've been saying this all along. Cal was never about UK

Wrong. He was about UK up until the Wisconsin game, and his results reflect that. But that loss was seen as such a monumental failure by the fanbase (and really the entire country) that it made Cal very bitter because he desperately wanted that season to be viewed as a success. And the only way he could do that was point to all the draft picks. THAT is when his priorities truly shifted. It was never about being the highest paid… it was about trying to shift the narrative of what his job actually was because he realized that was a lot easier than having to coach and be held accountable for his piss poor coaching decisions.

 

[Wonky]

Book developed his in the NBA not at UK. I am not sure about the others

Booker couldn’t hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle when it mattered. That’s all I care about. I don’t care if he scores 40 a night for PHX… they ain’t my team.

 

[yoshukai]

It seems like everything Cal talks about has something to do with the NBA.

Makes me wonder why he doesn’t coach in that league anymore.

Because no team wants him , lol.

 

[Skyguyb27]

Of course we are going to be ok. We are Kentucky.

And if a coach isn't a dumb drunk he is gonna win at least 1 title and make 1 to 4 final fours. I'm basing this on post the GOAT Rupp. He's n a league of his own at UK.

Pope isn't a dumb drunk so I expect a title and 2 to 4 final fours the next decade if he is here that long.

Where else would he go?

 

[Skyguyb27]

Wrong. He was about UK up until the Wisconsin game, and his results reflect that. But that loss was seen as such a monumental failure by the fanbase (and really the entire country) that it made Cal very bitter because he desperately wanted that season to be viewed as a success. And the only way he could do that was point to all the draft picks. THAT is when his priorities truly shifted. It was never about being the highest paid… it was about trying to shift the narrative of what his job actually was because he realized that was a lot easier than having to coach and be held accountable for his piss poor coaching decisions.

Mmm I have to partially disagree even his first few years he was saying the NBA crap, great night for UK is draft night type trash. People just overlooked as recruit talk because he was winning and ball was exciting again.

 

[bbncal02]

"More proof we are going to be OK without Cal"

WTF kind of thread title is this? What fan is still worried about life after Cal?

Not worried. It’s just more of “Holly hell. It was def. time for him to go.” More of it wasn’t just us going this guy is crazy. He’s still saying the same crap. Hopefully Ark fans are starting to go “Uh oh”.

How it must feel to be an Arky fan right now:

 

[bbncal02]

Mmm I have to partially disagree even his first few years he was saying the NBA crap, great night for UK is draft night type trash. People just overlooked as recruit talk because he was winning and ball was exciting again.

He was always a good ambassador for the program in terms of the showing up for things. Did good for the flood and tornado victims. Helped some players learn to be good people.
The rest? Meh

 

[AzubuikeandFitch]

It seems like everything Cal talks about has something to do with the NBA.

Makes me wonder why he doesn’t coach in that league anymore.

Because Cal couldn't cut it in the NBA. He simply isn't much of a bench coach who can make adjustments and draw up plays.
Since his failed professional stint Cal has been obsessed with making his NBA mark through draftees and their contract totals. As he would say, "I want to create generational wealth."

 

[UKAlum84]

Hopefully Pope can figure out not to have a 9-16 season. I don't care that Cal won one championship, he also made some questionable runs in later years. Kinda rubs you the wrong way. I love basketball and UK history of winning. Cal just had something else in mind besides leading our team to wins.

 

[bbncal02]

Hopefully Pope can figure out not to have a 9-16 season. I don't care that Cal won one championship, he also made some questionable runs in later years. Kinda rubs you the wrong way. I love basketball and UK history of winning. Cal just had something else in mind besides leading our team to wins.

I mean he gets credit for re-energizing us in 2009. Those were fun times. John Wall balling out was fun. But the marriage was souring. I’m glad we parted ways.

 

[Tf2217]

Everyone should remember there is a huge difference betwee a freshman Maxey, a freshman Fox, a freshman Booker versus where these guys are when they sign max contracts. Not even close to the same player and winning a single elimination tournament with kids who are on the stage for the first time isn’t easy. I wish Cal had more success with this model because it sure was fun having those kids here.

It would've worked if the fringe guys and late 2nd rounders didn't get pushed out the door as soon as seasons over. But then he wouldn't be able to push his NBA agenda so hard.

 

[ccukuk]

Everyone should remember there is a huge difference betwee a freshman Maxey, a freshman Fox, a freshman Booker versus where these guys are when they sign max contracts. Not even close to the same player and winning a single elimination tournament with kids who are on the stage for the first time isn’t easy. I wish Cal had more success with this model because it sure was fun having those kids here.

At first it was fun. It became not so fun for a good long while.

 

[ccukuk]

First being at University of Kentucky and the limelight they are in and the way games and season are approached is the reason they are prepared for the NBA NOT what Calipari does. Second, if you want to say Calipari was the reason they were successful at NBA then you MUST also give him credit for all of those who DID NOT HAVE success in the NBA which far out weighs the ones who did in my opinion especially as of late. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Not defending cow but it’s just silly to think there are more players who didn’t have success in the NBA who played for him than there are that did. I’m talking about players that were expected to get to the NBA.

 

[Allcats08]

The reason he had SO many players with max NBA contracts is because he had by far the greatest recruiting run in CBB history. Those guys were already destined for massive NBA wealth regardless of what college coach they chose. The explanation is all about recruiting, it has nothing to do with how Cal coached during their brief one season pit stop here.

Cal is deluded if he truly believes otherwise.

Outside of a few guys, they all would of been lottery picks regardless of where they went

 

[Blueaz]

Booker couldn’t hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle when it mattered. That’s all I care about. I don’t care if he scores 40 a night for PHX… they ain’t my team.

wtf you talking about...I was responding to the guy that was claiming Cal developed his short game,
calm the **** down

 

[bnewt]

I've been saying this all along. Cal was never about UK, he was about being the best paid NBA mentor / agent / recruiter. If Fox said that, why weren't there players on Cal's teams saying "hold up, I thought we were here for UK!".

because they weren't playing for UK. They were playing as an audition for the NBA

 

[bnewt]

Book developed his in the NBA not at UK. I am not sure about the others

the UK players improved greatly when they got to the NBA. most did not improve that much during their 1 year @ UK

 

[*CatinIL*]

I don’t miss Cal and his mercenary teams a bit

Yeah, I'm glad Arky gets to deal with his merry-go-round comments.

 

[jwphelps]

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It’s stuff like this that gives me a bit of peace that he’s down in Fayetteville.

I had no doubt we would be better without Cal. When Cal started losing guys like Robic and Payne and then started hired nothing but yes men the product on the court went down hill. Face it Cal could recruit and motivate but when it came to coaching Cal was very lacking. Getting out coached by St. Peters and the likes proved that.

 

[Mike-McD]

"More proof we are going to be OK without Cal"

WTF kind of thread title is this? What fan is still worried about life after Cal?

We were told by calbois that we would regret “running Cal off.” That we couldn’t find a better coach to replace him. Remember all those “ who ya gonna get” threads?

 

[thack_kat]

That's the thing, he didn't make anyone rich. Those guys were going to NBA with or without him. He tried to act like he took players that wouldn't make the NBA and turned them into NBA players . He had top ranked recruiting class every year full of guys who were going to NBA no matter what college they attended. And he still failed

Let’s say he did get a guy to the NBA that wouldn’t have made it if they went to a different school. Wouldn’t that just take away the opportunity from someone else? He’s not making the NBA pie any bigger.

 

[yoshukai]

Not worried. It’s just more of “Holly hell. It was def. time for him to go.” More of it wasn’t just us going this guy is crazy. He’s still saying the same crap. Hopefully Ark fans are starting to go “Uh oh”.

How it must feel to be an Arky fan right now:

What’s funny is, over the last 5 years Musselman has had more success than Calipari. And Calipari was at Kentucky while Musselman was at…..Arkansas, lol .