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Lebron Averaged a Triple Double

This may go down as one of the hotter takes on this thread. Irving and Love haven't put up as big of stats due to several issues, mainly that you have the best player on the planet with you now, but to act like LBJ doesn't make the game easier for his teammates is simply absurd.
If you read my post you will see ...I did not say he did not make the game easier (don't put your thoughts as my post)...obviously he is one of the all-time greatest...I just don't see other players raising there game around him. I don't know if that is an LBJ issues or "those players"...
Does that make more sense to you?
 
Kyrie is way better now than he was before LeBron. Love is suffering from moving from the only option to the 3rd option, of course that will make anybody's scoring drop off.
LeBron made Mo Williams look like an all-star in his first run in Cleveland. JR Smith and Iman Shumpert are journeymen and have unquestionably played the best ball of their lives with LeBron.
Not to mention, how did Cleveland do the year he left? How did Miami do the year he left.
I'll pose this question, as well. What teammate or former teammate of Lebron's had a better run after leaving his team?
I don't know...but scoring more points or being a great team does not make one a better player...Is Smith or Shumpert going to get a bigger contract somewhere because they are better? NO
obviously my point is not being made correctly in thread form...
LBJ is great...we can be done
 
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I get what you are saying, trust me. His actions in the past were terrible. But ever since he has been with the Wizards, i haven't heard any of his teammates criticize him or that he has been a cancer in the locker room. These type of things always get out, and all I am saying is that I haven't heard anything when he was with the Wiz.
more than fair enough...
 
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They did, but then there was no reason to leave. Magic had Kareem (top 5 all time) and Worthy (top 50), Bird had McHale and Parrish (still considered best front line ever), and Jordan had Pippen (top 50).
You got it right MoJo...the young crowd don't know the facts.
Kareem JUMPED to the Lakers from Milwaukee (forced a trade)
Pippen JUMPED from Seattle to Bulls (along with several others)
Boston over the years traded for key players.

If the money around today was around back then, ALL of the 'beloved' players would have been shopping for a mega pay raise.
 
You got it right MoJo...the young crowd don't know the facts.
Kareem JUMPED to the Lakers from Milwaukee (forced a trade)
Pippen JUMPED from Seattle to Bulls (along with several others)
Boston over the years traded for key players.

If the money around today was around back then, ALL of the 'beloved' players would have been shopping for a mega pay raise.
Pippen didn't "jump" from Seattle. He never played a single game for Seattle. He was traded to Chicago a couple weeks after being drafted.

LeBron and Durant didn't jump ship for money. Both jumped to go ring chasing.
 
Everyone says he always makes those around him better. (He is one if not the best player ever)...but, who is better when they played with him? Not Love, not Irving... IMO he does not make others better. He is just so good the team has to be better. Jmo
He and Love basically play the same position now. It's not a good fit. Irving is definitely better now because he doesn't have to pretend to be a pg. Plus the dozens of marginal players whose careers have been rejuvenated when they come to play with him.
 
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Lebron averaged a triple double and his team still nearly got swept. What moves can be made in your opinion to make the NBA more competitive going forward against this Warriors Juggernaut?
Sorry no comparison between him and Jordan, guy can't shoot a lick outside 15 feet and strictly relies on his strength, not being anti Lebron at all just what I've seen for a few years.
 
Pippen didn't "jump" from Seattle. He never played a single game for Seattle. He was traded to Chicago a couple weeks after being drafted.

LeBron and Durant didn't jump ship for money. Both jumped to go ring chasing.
Well, semantics aside....you are missing my point. The NBA has ALWAYS been dominated by wealthy teams who can stack the deck. I've witnessed it for nearly 7 decades. And that is no different than what Lebron or GS has done. Rules change. Reason does not.
 
Well, semantics aside....you are missing my point. The NBA has ALWAYS been dominated by wealthy teams who can stack the deck. I've witnessed it for nearly 7 decades. And that is no different than what Lebron or GS has done. Rules change. Reason does not.
I'm not missing your point, I just don't agree with it. LeBron was the first super star in his prime to go ring chasing. He created a super team in Miami then left to create a younger super team in Cleveland. Then Durant decided to copy that and do the same.
Kareem wanted to go back to back home to LA. The Lakers didn't have any other stars in their prime on that team. They went 30-52 the season before. The Bulls traded for an unproven rookie in Pippen. He didn't join as a free agent. The Celtics made smart moves and traded for a couple pieces. I don't see how any of those situations are similar to what we are seeing today. Back then you had GMs building teams through the draft and trades that took years to build. Now you have players building super teams in a year's time. It's not really the same.
 
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I'm not missing your point, I just don't agree with it. LeBron was the first super star in his prime to go ring chasing. He created a super team in Miami then left to create a younger super team in Cleveland. Then Durant decided to copy that and do the same.
Kareem wanted to go back to back home to LA. The Lakers didn't have any other stars in their prime on that team. They went 30-52 the season before. The Bulls traded for an unproven rookie in Pippen. He didn't join as a free agent. The Celtics made smart moves and traded for a couple pieces. I don't see how any of those situations are similar to what we are seeing today. Back then you had GMs building teams through the draft and trades that took years to build. Now you have players building super teams in a year's time. It's not really the same.
It's within the rules and it still creates a situation where only a few teams have a legit chance of doing anything. I don't get what LeBron proves by wasting his career in Cleveland. Loyalty? Why do players have to have it when fans and franchises throw guys away at the first sign of not being useful? Miami was never far and away the best team.
 
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Sorry no comparison between him and Jordan, guy can't shoot a lick outside 15 feet and strictly relies on his strength, not being anti Lebron at all just what I've seen for a few years.
MJ took 1778 career three pointers, made 32.7%.

LJ has taken 4295 threes and made 34.2% of them......
 
It's within the rules and it still creates a situation where only a few teams have a legit chance of doing anything. I don't get what LeBron proves by wasting his career in Cleveland. Loyalty? Why do players have to have it when fans and franchises throw guys away at the first sign of not being useful? Miami was never far and away the best team.
I didn't say LeBron was cheating so I don't know what rules have to do with anything. I don't believe LeBron was wasting his career in Cleveland. They had the possibility of bringing in Chris Paul and Dwight Howard(the non lazy version) had LeBron just stayed one more year. He didn't want to wait to see if that could happen so he went to Miami to create a super team because he knew it was his best shot to get a ring. LeBron absolutely hates losing so he'll do whatever he has to win. And yes that Miami team was the most talented team on paper at the time. The Mavs and Spurs definitely weren't super teams. Miami lacked depth because that's what you give up when you put three superstars with max deals on the same team.
 
Sorry no comparison between him and Jordan, guy can't shoot a lick outside 15 feet and strictly relies on his strength, not being anti Lebron at all just what I've seen for a few years.

LeBron is 2nd all time in playoff 3 pointers. Jordan is not even top 20. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
 
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In honor of @deep3 here's some stats for you LeBron haters

-LeBron is the only player in Finals history to average a triple double
-Jordan had 1 career win in the playoffs without Pippen
-LeBron is the all time playoff leading scorer
-LeBron was never swept in the first round of the playoffs like Jordan
-LeBron is number 2 all time in playoff 3 pointers made. Jordan isn't in the top 20
-LeBron is number 3 all time in playoff assists compared to Jordan who ranks 10th
-LeBron is number 7 all time in playoff rebounds. Jordan isn't in the top 20
-LeBron also only has to average around 22 points per game over the next 2 years to pass Jordan on the all time scoring list
- per Chris Broussard Jordan faced 9 hall of famers in 6 finals. James has faced 26 likely hall of famers in 8 finals.

So it's not just 6-0 and 3-5 in finals to compare these two all-time greats
 
I didn't say LeBron was cheating so I don't know what rules have to do with anything. I don't believe LeBron was wasting his career in Cleveland. They had the possibility of bringing in Chris Paul and Dwight Howard(the non lazy version) had LeBron just stayed one more year. He didn't want to wait to see if that could happen so he went to Miami to create a super team because he knew it was his best shot to get a ring. LeBron absolutely hates losing so he'll do whatever he has to win. And yes that Miami team was the most talented team on paper at the time. The Mavs and Spurs definitely weren't super teams. Miami lacked depth because that's what you give up when you put three superstars with max deals on the same team.
How is Chris Paul and Dwight Howard coming to Cleveland not the exact same thing? Not even taking into account it had no prayer of happening. That team would be better than the Miami team and LeBron wouldn't have had to develop his game the way he did to win in Miami.
 
In honor of @deep3 here's some stats for you LeBron haters

-LeBron is the only player in Finals history to average a triple double
-Jordan had 1 career win in the playoffs without Pippen
-LeBron is the all time playoff leading scorer
-LeBron was never swept in the first round of the playoffs like Jordan
-LeBron is number 2 all time in playoff 3 pointers made. Jordan isn't in the top 20
-LeBron is number 3 all time in playoff assists compared to Jordan who ranks 10th
-LeBron is number 7 all time in playoff rebounds. Jordan isn't in the top 20
-LeBron also only has to average around 22 points per game over the next 2 years to pass Jordan on the all time scoring list
- per Chris Broussard Jordan faced 9 hall of famers in 6 finals. James has faced 26 likely hall of famers in 8 finals.

So it's not just 6-0 and 3-5 in finals to compare these two all-time greats
that post is more for your Lebron lovers...big difference between haters and those that realize he is great, but do not worship at his feet
 
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As great as LeBron is, his ego & know it all mentality kills the Cavs. He's the GM, Coach, & star. They gave 82 million to Tristan Thompson for 5 years cause LeBron wanted him. They fired a coach mid year last year for him. If you look at this series, coaching is the biggest advantage the Warriors have. Kerr and Brown both coach Lue under a table because the Cavs don't answer to Lue, they answer to LeBron. Golden State's guys respect and listen to Kerr. Curry and Durant don't scratch the play in the huddle and draw their own. They wouldn't think of it. The Cavs rotations are horrible, their defensive schemes are horrible, & they have no offense other than LeBron drive and score or pass, or Kyrie goes ISO. On any possession they might have 3 guys touch the ball. Love has been severely mismanaged. He was looked at as a top 1-3 PF in the league when he came. When he catches the ball in the low post the Cavs either score or get a great look. However he rarely gets the ball in the low post. He's spotted up away from the basket to open the lane which takes away offensive rebounding. Thompson disappears. Same for JR Smith. And it's mostly due to all the ISO Ball.
 
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I agree completely. Ty Lue isn't really running the ship for the cavs. He's just a puppet for the King. It's almost pick up ball for the cavs. Their offense was brutal to for 75% of the series. Dribble until late in the shot clock and then take a dumb shot. The cavs best shot would be to bring someone in that LeBron already respects or that will demand it. Not sure if that's possible though at this point
 
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I'm not missing your point, I just don't agree with it. LeBron was the first super star in his prime to go ring chasing. He created a super team in Miami then left to create a younger super team in Cleveland. Then Durant decided to copy that and do the same.
Kareem wanted to go back to back home to LA. The Lakers didn't have any other stars in their prime on that team. They went 30-52 the season before. The Bulls traded for an unproven rookie in Pippen. He didn't join as a free agent. The Celtics made smart moves and traded for a couple pieces. I don't see how any of those situations are similar to what we are seeing today. Back then you had GMs building teams through the draft and trades that took years to build. Now you have players building super teams in a year's time. It's not really the same.
Respectfully...the fact that you feel this way doesn't mean you are correct. Players did not have the freedom to move in the old days. But the system was bent toward super-franchises building super teams. It's similar to MLB today: teams with the deepest pockets attract the best players.

Lebron has proven to be the ultimate team player. I don't know why you insist on painting him a Ring Chaser any more than Kareem (or others).

By the way...'home' for Kareem was New York. He spent 4 years in college in L.A.
 
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Queen James couldn't guard his shadow. He got exposed on defense.

Oh s$%t, son! I think your comedy act for the local middle school is shaping up nicely! Sick burn!

It's within the rules and it still creates a situation where only a few teams have a legit chance of doing anything. I don't get what LeBron proves by wasting his career in Cleveland. Loyalty? Why do players have to have it when fans and franchises throw guys away at the first sign of not being useful? Miami was never far and away the best team.

No, no, no. You see, basketball players must toil for the teams that won them in a lottery, not play for the teams they choose. And they must do so under artificial restraints that severely underpay superstars, both through the rookie scale and the maximum salary. It's the American way!

As great as LeBron is, his ego & know it all mentality kills the Cavs. He's the GM, Coach, & star. They gave 82 million to Tristan Thompson for 5 years cause LeBron wanted him.

They gave TT that money (and JR and Shumpert) because they didn't have a means to replace them with like talent. The players had all of the leverage. Cleveland had a championship window, and could not afford to sacrifice talent in the name of good contracts. Because they would not have meaningful cap room if they failed to resign these player, the harm to Cleveland, if any, is purely the owner's money. This "LeGM wanted him" crap is AM radio nonsense, and is ignorant of all that goes into building NBA teams, the CBA, the cap, and reason.
 
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