Lamb or Murray who is better.
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Another thing, on that team Lamb was a "role player", he had the 5th best offensive rating in the entire NCAA?! His freshman year he shot 48.6% from the 3 point line, 47.5% for his career?! He has the 15th best turnover % in SEC history. Also, who could forget him coming off bench against UCONN and giving that spark against the national champs? I really do not think people realize how good he truly was and its not a stretch to say he's one of the best 2 guards to come through UK.
Now, Murray is a way more talented player and I'd probably take him, but it would be close
Now, Murray is a way more talented player and I'd probably take him, but it would be close
But all of that is in the context of playing in an insanely talented team and being able to function as an extremely talented role player.
Murray is asked to do more and creatre more, which by it's very nature makes him less efficient.
Hypothetical - So how do you think Murray would've done on the Lamb teams, and how would Lamb have done this year in Murray's place? I tend to think Murray would be better in either scenario. I mean no disrespect to Lamb, just making the comparison.
Who is disrespecting Lamb? He was one of my favorite players the years he played and would love to have a player like him every year. A role player is someone that is not the first 2 options on offense or a defensive stopper on defense. Knight and Jones was the first 2 options his Freshman year. He was absolutley a vital role player both years at Kentucky but never was he more than a 3rd or 4th option on offense.
I don't simply because Murray wants to create and be the star.
Lamb was excellent about knowing his role and playing to it.
I think most guys on that team accepted who they were by mid-season and filled those roles to perfect. Teague would have the occasional "wanna be a star" moment until the end of the SEC tourney. But guys accepted who they were on that team.
Murray--even on a team where he's the star--often times has tried to overdo it. I think that he would have had a hard time just being a role player.
Fair assessment. Further, I say let Murray be the star. I don't think he's forcing it as much as he was earlier in the season.
Agreed there.
He was wild earlier in the season. He's really dialed it in, and he's been a much more effective player because of it.
But will you also admit that Lamb was a better defender and a better at not turning the ball over, considering he was the defacto backup PG for two seasons and had to handle the ball quite a bit.
You and I have a different definition of role player. Lamb played great defense, back-up point guard, and was a reliable all around scorer as a two guard. A role player on that team was Wiltjer, he came in strictly to shoot 3's that was his role. Lamb wasn't just some guy who was on the court just to shoot 3's.
I'd also love imagine Lamb and Ulis in the same backcourt, Ulis finding Lamb for great shots and also those two imposing their will harassing other teams on defense. You say Murray is asked to create more...but I'd say that Ulis is a much better creater than Knight and Teague were..
Im not disagreeing that Murray is the better player, but to just say Murray is an all around superstar and that Lamb was just a good shooter that was a product of having a good team around him ignores all he did in the 2011 final 4 run and his importance to the 2012 title.
Robert Horry is known as a role player that doesn't mean it's disrepect . Lamb was definitely a great role player
If the question is, "Which of these -- Lamb or Murray -- would I choose to build a team around", the answer is "Murray", without question. Murray is almost as good a shooter as Doron, and is a far better scorer in every other way than Doron.
Just MHO, of course.
Just MHO, of course.
I think a role player is anyone who wasn't a star.
I would call Murray and Ulis the stars on this team, the rest are role players.
I would call AD and MKG stars on that team.
I think being on a team THAT good makes things easier. That's the most complete team we've seen. They were bigger than everyone else, they were more athletic than everyone else, and they could shoot better than everyone else. They had no holes. Everyone was incredibly selfless.
This team has holes. The defense isn't as good. The athleticism isn't as much. The big men aren't that good. I honestly don't think Lamb would fair quite as well on this team as he did the 2012 team.
Murray is definitely the better individual player, but that doesn't take away from Lamb.
Doron Lamb was absolutely not a "role player". We don't win the championship w/o him. 22 points against Kansas is a role player? Come on. He was the 2nd leading scorer on the team, 3rd in minutes per game. We depended on him heavily. Kyle Wiltjer was a role player on that team.
Doron Lamb was absolutely not a "role player". We don't win the championship w/o him. 22 points against Kansas is a role player? Come on. He was the 2nd leading scorer on the team, 3rd in minutes per game. We depended on him heavily. Kyle Wiltjer was a role player on that team.
Derek Fisher scored multiple 20 point games, hit game winners in the playoffs, buzzer beaters, etc.
Still a role player.
Role player=non-star. I think Davis/MKG were the only "stars" on that team.
I don't really want to have an elaborate debate about whether or not Lamb should be defined as a role player. He was integral to that team. He started. If you feel that a role player can't be a starter, ok. He was a great player for us, but he wasn't the star.
I never said a role player couldn't be a starter. Keith Bogans started numerous games for the Bulls/Nets, but was never depended on to be a major contributor. I'm just saying you don't depend or rely on role players to be a major contributor. Doron Lamb was expected to be a major contributor and we relied on him in many ways and he delivered. Doron did not have the star power of those guys because he wasn't projected as a top pick in the draft, didn't have as much pro potential and wasn't as flashy or have an exciting-type game.
Id choose Murray if I needed someone to carry a team offensively. In all other situations, Id choose Lamb. Much more efficient, much better shooter, much better shot selection, better finisher, much better defender, much safer with the ball.
Exactly. He played within the system perfectly. Everytime UK needed a crucial bucket, they ran a set for Lamb and he drilled a 3 or finished a drive. He was lethal.
I think he lead the team in scoring in 2012 too. Some role player.
Exactly. He played within the system perfectly. Everytime UK needed a crucial bucket, they ran a set for Lamb and he drilled a 3 or finished a drive. He was lethal.
I think he lead the team in scoring in 2012 too. Some role player.
Lol @ people saying he's not a role player because we depended on him a lot . When Dallas beat the Heat in the finals Jason Terry was a huge reason and he is a role player . Jamal Crawford is capable of 20 in any game and he is a role player . Being a role player isn't a bad thing
People ALWAYS defend UK players unless your post is "ZOMG HE'S AWESOME!!!"
IDK why the role player distinction comes across as an attack though.
Totally disagree. Lamb was a spot up shooter. Murray is shooting 40% and shoots a ton more and can shoot them in every way possible.
Only edge Lamb has at all is on the defensive end.
Is that what you call a thread when everybody doesn't agree with you? A strange thread. Most here know what Doron did for us and how important he was to winning our championship and the FF run the year before. Murray is just way more talented and if you put him on the 12 team we may have that 40-0 or it may change the dynamic the other way.Totally hypothetical. I understood the question to be who would you take between the players. Murray has been pretty consistent and that's getting better as we go too. He's made a 3 in every game and is the 4th leading frosh scorer in the country, not to mention he's a lottery pick with a long NBA career in front of him while DL is a journeyman at best who's out of the league. It's not like Doron would be a bad pick unless you took him over Murray. No comparison.
Lol Lamb a role player? He was the second leading scorer from one of the best Kentucky teams ever who won a championship.
We absolutely don't win without him.
We also don't win without Teague or Miller.
The Lakers don't win some of their titles without Robert Horry or Derek Fisher or Rick Fox.
with all due respect to the OP - but, seems like all of his posts are variations of this.
this is what I was thinking
If you think of each of Cal's teams - what name do think you think first on each of those?
2010 - you think Wall and Boogie -
2011 - Knight
2012 - AD and MKG
2013 - Noel
2014 - Randle and the Harrisons
2015 - KAT and the Harrisons
being a "role" player on these teams didn't make any player unimportant - they just simply weren't the "star" of the team
I really liked ole Ernest T and his rock throwing...but Barney didn't
I get your point, but (I think) Doron was a singular player: perimeter shooter. Murray is multi-dimensional.
Doron Lamb was probably the most efficient player I can remember. He was also a good defender, despite what I've read in this thread. You would want Lamb on just about any UK team ever.
Jamal Murray is a super star scorer and might make a run at an 800 point season. He is not a plus defender yet, but he's getting better. In four weeks he might be the best player in the country. It's no shame to pick Murray over Lamb.
Jamal Murray is a super star scorer and might make a run at an 800 point season. He is not a plus defender yet, but he's getting better. In four weeks he might be the best player in the country. It's no shame to pick Murray over Lamb.
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