GSW -10,000Jason Logan@CoversJLo 11h11 hours ago
Timberwolves went from +20,000 to +5,000 to win NBA title when they added Jimmy Butler. Now T-Wolves have Jeff Teague. Man, love this team.
Kyle Lowry Timberwolves Talk....
- Thread starter UPSCat4080
- Start date
It's the Western Conference, Wiggins is a one trick pony, Butler the only one if their starting five that plays good defense. Towns is passable on defense, the rest are trash. Wiggins is easily one of the worst defenders in the NBA. Their bench is trash. Signing Taj Gibson will help depth and defense some, but they are still woefully lacking in depth and defense outside of Butler and Gibson.
Yea I think the top 5 in the west is pretty easy to pick.
GS
SA
Okc
Houston
Utah(if Hayward stays)
More like fact since it's all true.
Who on that team plays legitimately good defense that can be backed up with statistical data other than Butler and Gibson? Gorgui Dieng might have a case given his defensive real plus-minus of 3.52, but his defensive rating was just 110, which is awful.
Only other player on the team that played at least 10 minutes a game that ranked in the top 130 of defensive real plus-minus was Bjelica and he only got 18 minutes a game.
You have to go all the way down to 133 to find their second core player to be ranked in defensive real plus-minus in Ricky Rubio at a measly 0.76. The team not even a whole point better over 100 defensive possessions with him on the court.
Literally, every other player on the team that played double-digit minutes per game has a negative defensive real plus-minus.
Who on that bench other than Gibson (assuming Dieng still starts) is even as much as an average NBA player? Shabazz Muhammad maybe? He had a 15.00 PER, which is the league average, but is also one of the worst defenders in the league, which PER can't really account for.
Their bench is currently:
- Cole Aldrich - career nobody, averaged only 8.6 minutes a game last season
- Nemanja Bjelica - 29 years old and just played his second season in the league last year where he performed even worse than the year before when he sported an 11.23 PER as a rookie
- Omri Casspi - Career role player that can make some shots and get some boards but does literally nothing else. Only scored 3.5 points a game in his injury shortened 13-game stint with the Twolves last season
- Taj Gibson - Solid role player, nothing special, but his defensive abilities are nowhere near what they were in his first five years in the league
- Tyus Jones - Improved statistically on a per-minute basis peafter his rookie season but saw even less playing time, playing just 12.9 minutes as a PG on a team that was actively looking to get rid of their starting PG for much of the season. Not exactly a glowing endorsement for Tyus Jones
- Shabazz Muhammad - He's fine if you're OK with a guy who had the mindset of a scorer but can't shoot or do anything else
- Cameron Oliver - rookie
- Justin Patton - rookie
- Adreian Payne - Has been an also ran and often injured player for the Twolves, never playing more than 52 games in a season. Effectively lost his job as a starter and relegated to a nobody after the Twolves got Dieng and Bejlica
- Brandon Rush - career three and D role player off the bench, doesn't really do anything else, and he's not even that good at defense these days with a ghastly 115 defensive rating this past season.
And Denver is going to be better than them now with the addition of Paul Millsap while giving up nothing to get him.
The Thunder were better last year and just added Paul George while getting rid of nothing of any significance.
The Trail Blazers were pretty damn good once they added Jusuf Nurkic. Went 14-3 in March and April in games he played, with wins over Houston, Denver, Miami (one of the hottest teams in the league after the All-Star break), Atlanta, San Antonio, and OKC 2x.
If Utah keeps Hayward, in my eyes, that's 8 teams that are definitively better. I think he bolts though, so 7 teams that are for sure better. Clippers will probably suck and not make the playoffs now, so the TWolves at least have that going for them. Memphis is a big ? mark for me. I've never liked their style but it seems to work. They barely made the playoffs as it is, hard to see them fighting off a whole season of the Nurkic Blazers and the Millsap Nuggets though.
Have to remember, the TWolves that played last year had absolutely no clue how to win games, finishing like 10+ wins worse than projected while being a complete disaster on defense and late in the game. That stuff doesn't just improve overnight, especially the whole learning how to win NBA games thing. Adding Butler and Teague while getting rid of who they did will improve them a lot, but they are going to have to be well over 10 games better than they were this past season, and the West has gotten considerably tougher this offseason. Butler and Teague are pretty good, and Butler is awesome, but I'm not sure they are THAT good. Teague not even a top 5 PG in the West now, maybe cracks in the list at like 8th. If they were in the East they are the 2nd or 3rd best team in that conference though.
I said terrible take, not true/false. Just because you spout stats doesn't mean those things remains identical next year.
You are confused about what stat means...hence, the terrible take.
We know LAST year they were terrible team defensively.
We know Last year Wiggins were terrible defensive player.... BTW, if you know my stance in regards to Wiggins, i 100% agree with you in terms of one trick pony...
We know last year KAT was a mediocre defensive player....
All of things you said, is about LAST year.
You forget to mentioned that they also were one of the YOUNGEST team LAST year. You also forgot to mention you added insanely talented player in Butler, who is great on both end of the court. Which should allow Wiggins/KAT to further develop their defensive capabilities. (not to mention, in better position because of it)
also, in terms of bad defensive players, you can name bunch on a play off team like Lillard, McCollum, Thomas, and Irving....Not to mention, Wiggins has potential to improve defensively, he just need a defensive minded culture to help him grow in that area. BTW Lillard/McCollum is on playoff team in west....on a same team....
Well, the Wolves have rescinded Shabazz Muhammad's qualifying offer. So now they will lose their best returning bench player from last season, even further weakening the bench. They need to make a play for someone decent to add to that bench. They can't afford to play their top five all 35+ minutes a game the whole season.
A statement not backed up by any statistical data.
lol
He passes the eye test and get some awesome blocks, but a lot the advanced defensive metrics have him as a minus defender. Bottom third of the league for C. I haven't done my own research, but that's what the stats say.
Yeah, its more accurate to say KAT is terrible defender than it is to say he is good defender.
However, there is a lot of positive moving forward.
1. He is trying to do too much and he struggle defensively late in the game. His 4th Quarter defensive ratings are atrocious.
2. Other great player makes defense easier. Adding Butler's biggest benefit is he can both help team defensively, and ease the effort needed to succeed. (this is true on both side of the court).
3. He just finished second year...i mean... he's super young and still super raw. He can only go upwards in terms of defensive and offensive effectiveness.
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