KHSAA: Should Private Schools Get Their Own Division?

[HeismaNole]

I've seen this debate in the comment sections online after Sacred Heart won their fifth straight state championship in girls basketball.

In terms of boys basketball, a private school has only won it six times since 1962 with four of those six being from 2012-2019. The girls, however, have had a private school win it 15 times since 1999.

But some other sports are crazy. There has NEVER been a public school that has won a girls volleyball state championship. Swimming and diving is crazy too. St. X has won every single boys swimming and diving state title since 1988. The girls have had Sacred Heart win it every year since 2013. In boys tennis, a public school has only won it three times since 1982. Girls private schools dominate that too but to a lesser extent.

I NEVER want the boys basketball tournament to go away from one champ as it makes the tournament special. But it appears to be a real issue with some of the other sports.

 

[HeismaNole]

Sacred Heart's tuition is $17K a year. How many of these basketball players come from families who are paying that type of money? Or is this like what Lex Cath used to do where the star players get their tuition paid for by someone else or they get such a financial break that it's peanuts?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

In NY, the private and prep schools are definitely recruiting and offering some form of financial aid to poach the areas best athletes. I would think a place like Sacred Heart is doing something similar.

I feel like for my state, it doesn't matter. The private schools seem to have the edge, but if some of the local high schools actually put the effort in, they do well.. if they don't care about sports, then they don't.

And it's not like the public schools don't have some advantages also. Free school and trying to build a basketball team, is a heck of a lot easier than if you're charging some form of tuition (even if at times it gets covered). Private schools also have some form of standards. Remember the infamous Cinci/Xavier fight back in like 2010? Mark Lyons was apart of that and he went to Schenectady Highschool near me.. basically a shitty inner city school. He would not have lasted in private school.

 

[bthaunert]

I haven’t lived in Kentucky since 1981 ( I was 5), so take this with a grain of salt. I looked at volleyball, softball and girls soccer. IMO, they should move to multiple divisions by school size.. I get keeping 1 single division in basketball based on tradition in a basketball crazy state, but what’s the reason for that in other sports? Why are there 6 divisions in football but only 1 in volleyball, softball, soccer, etc (I think)?

 

[Wildcats1st]

NO! I ran a public program in KHSAA and we had a couple private schools in our league. They only raised the bar and it was a tough league public/private lex catholic was always beatable. A lot of coaches in our school bitched about the private schools but in soccer we went out and kicked butt!

 

[HeismaNole]

Why are there 6 divisions in football but only 1 in volleyball, softball, soccer, etc (I think)?

Great point.

 

[cbrwalt]

Absolutely, 1,000,000 % yes

Public schools and private schools are on 2 completely different playing fields in many different ways

You could have the public school champ play the private school champ.


Or just put all the private schools in one district. That is 100 percent what Jefferson Co needs to do


Only people in private schools will vote no, for the most part

 

[Deli owl]

If they play and recruit by the same rules it wouldn't matter.

 

[HeismaNole]

Absolutely, 1,000,000 % yes

Public schools and private schools are on 2 completely different playing fields in many different ways

You could have the public school champ play the private school champ.


Or just put all the private schools in one district. That is 100 percent what Jefferson Co needs to do


Only people in private schools will vote no, for the most part

I see this on a lesser level in youth sports. We always coach youth basketball and flag football and you'll get just random kids assigned to you but maybe one buddy request fulfilled but then there's always a team in the league that stacks their team and the leagues just allow it and they always win. That's because every other team has a few kids who are good and a chunk of who are just learning or what not compared to some douche that stacks a travel team. What does anyone gain from that, ya know?

I can't explain why private schools haven't dominated boys basketball but there's just such a huge advantage for being able to ignore district lines and get a kid free/discounted private school compared to "I have to field a competitive team in this specific zoned area."

If we had school choice, this would help even things out yet the state shot that down.

 

[Nuke99m]

Not in basketball. Football is another story. I looked and in 107 years, Trinity has won 3 state titles. Saint Xavier has won 5.

 

[HeismaNole]

Not in basketball. Football is another story. I looked and in 107 years, Trinity has won 3 state titles. Saint Xavier has won 5.

It's not a boys basketball issue. It's overwhelmingly a girls athletics issue and an issue in boys swimming, tennis, and soccer, I believe.


Boys basketball
Private schools who won it all (some schools on the champs list don't exist anymore so not sure if there's a private one I'm missing)

1926 St. X
1935 St. X
1958 St. X
1960 Flaget (I think this was private)
1962 St. X
1992 University Heights
2002 Lexington Catholic
2012 Trinity
2014 Cov Cath
2018 Cov Cath
2019 Trinity

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Sacred Heart's tuition is $17K a year. How many of these basketball players come from families who are paying that type of money? Or is this like what Lex Cath used to do where the star players get their tuition paid for by someone else or they get such a financial break that it's peanuts?

G-School players get their full tuition paid for by me, you, the tax payers. Free tuition is a great recruiting tool so I'd say that the pubs have a huge advantage. You actually have to PAY for a G-School kid PLUS tuition to a private school for your own kid. Public schools must REALLY suck for parents to pay essentially double tuition. That is the real question that should be asked. Why would parents avoid G-Schools like a plague? Answer that and then maybe you don't have to worry about getting beaten on the sports floor.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

NO! I ran a public program in KHSAA and we had a couple private schools in our league. They only raised the bar and it was a tough league public/private lex catholic was always beatable. A lot of coaches in our school bitched about the private schools but in soccer we went out and kicked butt!

Soccer? We are talking about actual sports here.

 

[EliteBlue]

I haven’t lived in Kentucky since 1981 ( I was 5), so take this with a grain of salt. I looked at volleyball, softball and girls soccer. IMO, they should move to multiple divisions by school size.. I get keeping 1 single division in basketball based on tradition in a basketball crazy state, but what’s the reason for that in other sports? Why are there 6 divisions in football but only 1 in volleyball, softball, soccer, etc (I think)?

Agree with this.

Also on board with turning the girls State tournament into private vs public.

Could also do it in both men’s and women’s and then have the private vs public champs play each other for an “overall division”….

Or… you go class system like football but make basketball a 4 class system. So you have a 1A state champ, 2A, 3A, 4A. And then you have the “overall tournament” play in a state Final 4. (Allows multiple state champs while still keeping the tradition of crowing the overall champ)

 

[DrH. Lecter]

I see this on a lesser level in youth sports. We always coach youth basketball and flag football and you'll get just random kids assigned to you but maybe one buddy request fulfilled but then there's always a team in the league that stacks their team and the leagues just allow it and they always win. That's because every other team has a few kids who are good and a chunk of who are just learning or what not compared to some douche that stacks a travel team. What does anyone gain from that, ya know?

I can't explain why private schools haven't dominated boys basketball but there's just such a huge advantage for being able to ignore district lines and get a kid free/discounted private school compared to "I have to field a competitive team in this specific zoned area."

If we had school choice, this would help even things out yet the state shot that down.

Private schools do not dominate in basketball because they do not get the best athletes for that sport. Certainly it is easier by getting 1 outstanding player to make an impact (see Evangel Christian 24 vs 25). St. X this year. X has made it a concerted effort to recruit players and pay the full boat. They got tired of losing to Trinity...who does NOT pay full tuition and what they do is a blind merit based application.
My feelings on the X basketball recruits. Good for them. Better for them and their future families that they go to X than it is to get stuck in their s-hole G-school in their neighborhood. THAT is much more important than wins and losses.

 

[trueblujr2]

Absolutely, 1,000,000 % yes

Public schools and private schools are on 2 completely different playing fields in many different ways

You could have the public school champ play the private school champ.


Or just put all the private schools in one district. That is 100 percent what Jefferson Co needs to do


Only people in private schools will vote no, for the most part

in terms of football alone, I wouldn't mind seeing the private schools doing some sort of regional league of their own with Trinity and X joining some Lexington teams, Northern KY/Cincy area teams, Indianapolis, Nashville possibly as well. Trinity already plays teams from those areas, wouldn't be a stretch for them all to form their own division of sorts and have their own Championship.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Sacred Heart's tuition is $17K a year. How many of these basketball players come from families who are paying that type of money? Or is this like what Lex Cath used to do where the star players get their tuition paid for by someone else or they get such a financial break that it's peanuts?

I’m from a surrounding county of Lexington. Lex Cath used to come pilfer our best athletes under the guise of scholarships. This was 30 years ago so I don’t know if much has changed.

I’m all for separating private schools from most sports because they have a competitive advantage in being able to recruit and students not having to live in a certain area to attend the school.

I agree with you about keeping boys’ basketball winner take all, no classes.

 

[fatguy87]

No

 

[saxonburgcat]

If they play and recruit by the same rules it wouldn't matter.

Fairness and equality in sports is an illusion as it is in the world of business and politics and everywhere else. When my kids said to me, "That's not fair!" I replied, "Life is not fair. Get used to it."

About all we can do is make it more fair than it is.

 

[saxonburgcat]

I’m from a surrounding county of Lexington. Lex Cath used to come pilfer our best athletes under the guise of scholarships. This was 30 years ago so I don’t know if much has changed.

I’m all for separating private schools from most sports because they have a competitive advantage in being able to recruit and students not having to live in a certain area to attend the school.

I agree with you about keeping boys’ basketball winner take all, no classes.

UNC and Bubba Cunningham completely agree with how you ended your post..."no classes."

 

[HeismaNole]

I’m from a surrounding county of Lexington. Lex Cath used to come pilfer our best athletes under the guise of scholarships. This was 30 years ago so I don’t know if much has changed.

I’m all for separating private schools from most sports because they have a competitive advantage in being able to recruit and students not having to live in a certain area to attend the school.

I agree with you about keeping boys’ basketball winner take all, no classes.

Catholic was notorious for it. Scott County was notorious for it from the public side. Hey, whatdya know? This good basketball player's parent just got a job at Toyota (Euton, Jackson, and maybe even Rick Jones). Haha

Catholic got Nathan Popp, Scott Hundley, Vee Sanford, Will Graham, I'm sure all of their major talent from the 90s and 2000s came from another school as opposed to the feeder system.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

in terms of football alone, I wouldn't mind seeing the private schools doing some sort of regional league of their own with Trinity and X joining some Lexington teams, Northern KY/Cincy area teams, Indianapolis, Nashville possibly as well. Trinity already plays teams from those areas, wouldn't be a stretch for them all to form their own division of sorts and have their own Championship.

As a Trinity alumnus, I can say that it does Trinity no real good to play any Pub in KY with a few exceptions. They should be pulled into an OPEN classification that a school can opt into or out of depending on what they have in their system at the time.

Boyle County had a really good team last year and it would have been a year where they should have played up. Male is always good and should be in it. My partial list of the open class would be:

Trinity
X
Male
Fred Douglass
Scott Cty
Cooper
Ryle
BG


Even with this, it is better for Trinity FB and KY FB in general to schedule the Cinci teams, Indy teams and Nashville teams. The level of competition. I'll never forget watching Trinity play Ft. Thomas Highlands when whatshisface was their QB. He'd signed with UK and was all the rage. Trinity killed them and he ran for his life the whole game. I knew then that he was not an SEC QB. In fact, it is nearly impossible NEARLY, for the level of competition here to the level to get them ready for the SEC. Maybe if we have an open class and the ability to play the regional schedule Trinity plays...then maybe we can develop some real KY talent.

 

[TucsonCat]

Football I understand. Maybe volleyball or soccer. Because of the quantity of players and quantity available to play a team sport. Based on school size.

But everything else, just keep it all together. Especially things like swimming, diving, tennis, track, wrestling, golf Those are all individual sports. And at the end of the day they add up points and give a team award. You can tell yourself your collection was best of public schools if you need to.

 

[runt#69]

In NY, the private and prep schools are definitely recruiting and offering some form of financial aid to poach the areas best athletes. I would think a place like Sacred Heart is doing something similar.

I feel like for my state, it doesn't matter. The private schools seem to have the edge, but if some of the local high schools actually put the effort in, they do well.. if they don't care about sports, then they don't.

And it's not like the public schools don't have some advantages also. Free school and trying to build a basketball team, is a heck of a lot easier than if you're charging some form of tuition (even if at times it gets covered). Private schools also have some form of standards. Remember the infamous Cinci/Xavier fight back in like 2010? Mark Lyons was apart of that and he went to Schenectady Highschool near me.. basically a shitty inner city school. He would not have lasted in private school.

Can't believe I had almost forgotten about that.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Football I understand. Maybe volleyball or soccer. Because of the quantity of players and quantity available to play a team sport. Based on school size.

But everything else, just keep it all together. Especially things like swimming, diving, tennis, track, wrestling, golf Those are all individual sports. And at the end of the day they add up points and give a team award. You can tell yourself your collection was best of public schools if you need to.

X has a pool on campus. Big advantage. Plus a bunch of kids that are members at a country club. They have the market cornered for the "club" sports.

 

[BluestBlood]

No and my take solely is for basketball during this argument but it hurts beyond the sweet 16 and just the champion.
Look at DCA now, importing players in both boys and girls and eliminating rural home grown talent amongst the whole region.
It affects all the schools in their own regions

 

[Wildcats1st]

Soccer? We are talking about actual sports here.

Yeah well youth soccer is the biggest sport in America and high school soccer draws more fans than baseball. I always laugh at anyone to say soccer isn’t a sport. Generally they are people who can’t run continuously for 90 min having to sprint at times. It is the most popular sport in the world AND it’s far more dangerous than any sport other than hockey. I don’t know anyone who played at a high level I mean like on a top 10 high school program on up who hasn’t had serious injury at some point or lingering injuried that cause problem later in life . The risk factor is so high, you have to have skills, speed, endurance and most of all keeping score qualifies it as a sport. Lol

 

[jeffky]

I know public schools recruit now too but private schools have so much more advantage monetarily than a public institution . If you're private ,than you should stay private ,and be in a league of your own.