Kenyon Martin - "Rick Pitino went to the Celtics, so I went to UC...."

[TankedCat]

From KSR.....

.

his comments following the game may force UK fans to wonder what could have been.

“As a kid, you idolize Kentucky basketball,” Martin said. “Rick Pitino was an iconic figure here, that’s who I wanted to play for then. He left and went to the Celtics, and then they brought in Tubby, so I decided to go to the University of Cincinnati.

 

[buckkiller]

Let's see throw him In the list of players we Lost cause of Tubby Hire!

 

[Smashcat]

From KSR.....

.

his comments following the game may force UK fans to wonder what could have been.

“As a kid, you idolize Kentucky basketball,” Martin said. “Rick Pitino was an iconic figure here, that’s who I wanted to play for then. He left and went to the Celtics, and then they brought in Tubby, so I decided to go to the University of Cincinnati.

He wanted to go to a school with players who punched police horses.

 

[ohiodon]

Bearcat fans will melt down over this!

 

[~Keyser Soze~]

Let's see throw him In the list of players we Lost cause of Tubby Hire!

Kenyon Martin was a freshman at Cincinnati in 96-97, the same year that Pitino was at UK and Tubby was at UGA. Cool story tho, dude knows his audience I guess, so far Tubby for losing Kenyon Martin for UK while being the coach at UGA.

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite]

Yeah, Martin now has UK envy, after the fact. What evs dude was a beast and i liked it when UC was making noise. Good for the fandom in the Tristate area regardless if UK and UC play regularly.

 

[JohnBlue_]

Why would someone make up something so stupid and try to pass it off on to this fan base as being true?

On a ironic note... Tubby's Wildcats defeated Huggins Bearcats in what would be he last game coaching there.

 

[gossie21]

That's why you can never trust players who say 2, 5, 10 years later on which school they "would" have gone to.

 

[KopiKat]

Kenyon Martin was a freshman at Cincinnati in 96-97, the same year that Pitino was at UK and Tubby was at UGA. Cool story tho, dude knows his audience I guess, so far Tubby for losing Kenyon Martin for UK while being the coach at UGA.

It does sound revisionist on Martin's part. Although it could make perfect sense if he had said "went back" to Cincy, as his problems there his freshman year are well documented. Homesick. Left the program. Took a bus home. It's a stretch but maybe he is implying he was considering a transfer after his freshman year.

 

[UK90]

From KSR....
his comments following the game may force UK fans to wonder what could have been.

“As a kid, you idolize Kentucky basketball,” Martin said. “Rick Pitino was an iconic figure here, that’s who I wanted to play for then. He left and went to the Celtics, and then they brought in Tubby, so I decided to go to the University of Cincinnati.

This story is total bullshit, and Martin has just been caught lying his ass off. He began his UC career in 1996, long before Pitino left UK, so this story can't possibly be true.

And, you know, when a story is this easily disprovable, you'd think a source like KSR might point out the blatantly obvious discrepancy instead of just reporting it as if true.

 

[Kuhldaddy]

Martin was a thug. UC was a perfect fit for him.

 

[UKWildcatT]

Good. Not a guy you want to see at UK

 

[morgousky]

The only thing I can figure is Martin is confusing when Pitino left and why he chose UC.

People have to rememeber that Pitino rumors after 96 were intense. Dirty recruiting was going on all over the place by coaches telling recruits Pitino was leaving. I remember fans actually not caring that he left because it became exausting dealing with the speculation. Way worse than what we've dealt with under Cal.

So Martin remembers not picking UK because everyone was telling him Pitino was leaving for the NBA, which he did one year later, and 20+ years later it's conflated a bit in his mind. I could easily understand that.

Imo calling him a liar over it is a bit much. Why would be knowingly lie about something t is sure to be understood, rather immediately?

To me is just sounds like he's remembering the circumstances incorrectly. Lots of players would have played at UK under Pitino that didn't under Tubby. I'm not sure Cal could have matched Pitino at UK had he stayed. I've always maintained Pitino and coach K would be battling each other for modern Goat right now.

 

[bigc45157]

Martin was a thug. UC was a perfect fit for him.

Wow.

 

[musrat59]

I had never heard of him until he came to UC.

 

[~Keyser Soze~]

The only thing I can figure is Martin is confusing when Pitino left and why he chose UC.

People have to rememeber that Pitino rumors after 96 were intense. Dirty recruiting was going on all over the place by coaches telling recruits Pitino was leaving. I remember fans actually not caring that he left because it became exausting dealing with the speculation. Way worse than what we've dealt with under Cal.

So Martin remembers not picking UK because everyone was telling him Pitino was leaving for the NBA, which he did one year later, and 20+ years later it's conflated a bit in his mind. I could easily understand that.

Imo calling him a liar over it is a bit much. Why would be knowingly lie about something t is sure to be understood, rather immediately?

To me is just sounds like he's remembering the circumstances incorrectly. Lots of players would have played at UK under Pitino that didn't under Tubby. I'm not sure Cal could have matched Pitino at UK had he stayed. I've always maintained Pitino and coach K would be battling each other for modern Goat right now.

Maybe if Pitino found another recruiter. After Billy D left recruiting went downhill. We lost Delk, Walker, McCarty, and Pope in 96 and replaced them with Jamaal Magliore. The next year we lost Mercer, Anderson, Epps, and Prickett, and replaced them with Michael Bradley, Myron Anthony, and Ryan Hogan. That's a huge drop off in talent so the theory that his next 4-5 years would have been the same as his previous 4-5 is seriously flawed IMO.

 

[Ineverplayedthegame]

Maybe if Pitino found another recruiter. After Billy D left recruiting went downhill. We lost Delk, Walker, McCarty, and Pope in 96 and replaced them with Jamaal Magliore. The next year we lost Mercer, Anderson, Epps, and Prickett, and replaced them with Michael Bradley, Myron Anthony, and Ryan Hogan. That's a huge drop off in talent so the theory that his next 4-5 years would have been the same as his previous 4-5 is seriously flawed IMO.

But could Dell, Walker, McCarty, or Pope ever gave us this?

 

[JohnBlue_]

The only thing I can figure is Martin is confusing when Pitino left and why he chose UC.

People have to rememeber that Pitino rumors after 96 were intense. Dirty recruiting was going on all over the place by coaches telling recruits Pitino was leaving. I remember fans actually not caring that he left because it became exausting dealing with the speculation. Way worse than what we've dealt with under Cal.

So Martin remembers not picking UK because everyone was telling him Pitino was leaving for the NBA, which he did one year later, and 20+ years later it's conflated a bit in his mind. I could easily understand that.

Imo calling him a liar over it is a bit much. Why would be knowingly lie about something t is sure to be understood, rather immediately?

To me is just sounds like he's remembering the circumstances incorrectly. Lots of players would have played at UK under Pitino that didn't under Tubby. I'm not sure Cal could have matched Pitino at UK had he stayed. I've always maintained Pitino and coach K would be battling each other for modern Goat right now.

Honestly, that's a pathetic attempt of trying to excuse a blatant lie. pitino rumors in 96 would have been AFTER he already chose to join Cinncy too btw. Rumors aside there absolutely no way he knew years in advance that Tubby was going to be the next head coach. The guy is an idiot and a liar, don't try to dream some lame excuse for that.

In reality he chose Cincinnati because they recruited him the hardest (his own words before this bs fwiw)

 

[sefus12]

Whether it's true or not, Martin was one of the most dominant college players of the 90s. The guy was an absolute blast to watch his last season at UC before the freak injury.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

This story is total bullshit, and Martin has just been caught lying his ass off. He began his UC career in 1996, long before Pitino left UK, so this story can't possibly be true.

And, you know, when a story is this easily disprovable, you'd think a source like KSR might point out the blatantly obvious discrepancy instead of just reporting it as if true.

That is too far back for the children at KSR to know anything about. They are the first to admit they can't remember past the Tubby Smith era. They do not have anyone to research the facts for them and it shows.

 

[JonathanW]

Let's see throw him In the list of players we Lost cause of Tubby Hire!

Stupid post ^^^. I'm sure Martin had nothing against Tubby, but he didn't have a relationship with Tubby. This is ALL on Pitino, just like the fact that we couldn't get a PG and were study with Saul as PG is on Pitino. Pitino left without having a backup PG in place for Turner. Someone had to back up Turner. Saul just happened to be an adequate (mid-major level) combo guard that could backup Turner. Recruiting season was already over, so it was Saul or no one. Then other teams used his presence against us the next 3 years. That is ALL on Pitino!

 

[morgousky]

Honestly, that's a pathetic attempt of trying to excuse a blatant lie. pitino rumors in 96 would have been AFTER he already chose to join Cinncy too btw. Rumors aside there absolutely no way he knew years in advance that Tubby was going to be the next head coach. The guy is an idiot and a liar, don't try to dream some lame excuse for that.

In reality he chose Cincinnati because they recruited him the hardest (his own words before this bs fwiw)

Pitino rumors to the NBA started being used as ammo against UK around that time. I wasnt saying he didn't pick UK because of Tubby himself. I was suggesting maybe he remembers picking away from UK because he thought Rick was on his way out the door and 20 years later he's simply conflating the issue.

To the above poster who said recruiting dipped, yes it did. But Billy Donovan wasn't some powerhouse name at that time. Those players committed to Pitino. And the reason his recruiting took a hit was because of his constant flirtation with the NBA that had been going on for several years. What I was saying is had Pitino squashed the rumors like Cal has or coach k did when he turned down the Lakers, Pitino wouldn't have slipped at all.

 

[morgousky]

Stupid post ^^^. I'm sure Martin had nothing against Tubby, but he didn't have a relationship with Tubby. This is ALL on Pitino, just like the fact that we couldn't get a PG and were study with Saul as PG is on Pitino. Pitino left without having a backup PG in place for Turner. Someone had to back up Turner. Saul just happened to be an adequate (mid-major level) combo guard that could backup Turner. Recruiting season was already over, so it was Saul or no one. Then other teams used his presence against us the next 3 years. That is ALL on Pitino!

This is totally false. Now we're blaming Pitino for Tubby's inability to recruit a point guard because of Saul? I'm no Pitino fan but that's a stretch. Pitino left a national championship team on the table with several NBA caliber guys. It was Tubby's job to recruit his own players once he took the job. Players did not want to play for Tubby, and the only reason he got most of the good ones he did was because of the program or a miss from other programs. Hayes and Prince immediately come to mind.

Tubby is already in hot water in memphis because he's promoting saul over more qualified hires. He got himself in trouble at UK for the very same thing. The guy puts his friends and family over his duties as a coach. Always has.

I could be totally wrong about Martin, that's fine. But if Cal were gearing brad up for major minutes, you'd see chaotic recruiting just like you saw then.

 

[JC CATS]

Let's see throw him In the list of players we Lost cause of Tubby Hire!

Let's just blame Tubby for all the players we lost. That would fit our agenda. You do realize that Rick Pitino was the coach at UK when Martin was a freshman at UC? Nah that wouldn't fit the agenda

 

[JC CATS]

The only thing I can figure is Martin is confusing when Pitino left and why he chose UC.

People have to rememeber that Pitino rumors after 96 were intense. Dirty recruiting was going on all over the place by coaches telling recruits Pitino was leaving. I remember fans actually not caring that he left because it became exausting dealing with the speculation. Way worse than what we've dealt with under Cal.

So Martin remembers not picking UK because everyone was telling him Pitino was leaving for the NBA, which he did one year later, and 20+ years later it's conflated a bit in his mind. I could easily understand that.

Imo calling him a liar over it is a bit much. Why would be knowingly lie about something t is sure to be understood, rather immediately?

To me is just sounds like he's remembering the circumstances incorrectly. Lots of players would have played at UK under Pitino that didn't under Tubby. I'm not sure Cal could have matched Pitino at UK had he stayed. I've always maintained Pitino and coach K would be battling each other for modern Goat right now.

I have heard that in between the years 2011 and 2017 Cal has left for every NBA opening available. Hasn't hurt his recruiting much. Well there was that 1 year when they only got the #2 class

 

[morgousky]

I have heard that in between the years 2011 and 2017 Cal has left for every NBA opening available. Hasn't hurt his recruiting much. Well there was that 1 year when they only got the #2 class

The difference is Cal closes the door. And today there is social media that allows him the ability to speak directly to recruits immediately to calm the flames. During the Pitino era, not only did Rick hurt himself by not closing the door (becase he wanted back in the NBA), but there was no real way to combat the situation. Back then is not now.

Also the OAD allows Cal the ability.to recruit on a year to year basis. A lot of his guys only expect to be at UK for one season, even the Briscoes and Lambs of the world. That gives him a great advantage on the rumors. He only has to squash them for the season. Pitino's recruits, even aspiring NBA guys, were looking at 3-4 years in most cases.

Not a good comparison at all imo.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Those 96 and 97 squads with a freak like Kenyon Martin would have been bananas. Or more accurately, more bananas than they already were.

Maybe he was playing to the crowd. Maybe it's been 20 years and he's lived a memorable life and he forgot. It's clearly made up but I don't see that it does any harm, and if he's purposely lying at least he spoke about our program with that kind of respect. No harm done.

Stuff like this is also the reason I don't believe Wilt Chamberlain had a 50 inch vertical leap, bench pressed a thousand pounds, etc., by the way. People mix tidbits of information, vague timelines of events, nostalgic feelings and the benefit of hindsight and suddenly things in the past were much different than reality.

 

[JonathanW]

This is totally false. Now we're blaming Pitino for Tubby's inability to recruit a point guard because of Saul? I'm no Pitino fan but that's a stretch. Pitino left a national championship team on the table with several NBA caliber guys. It was Tubby's job to recruit his own players once he took the job. Players did not want to play for Tubby, and the only reason he got most of the good ones he did was because of the program or a miss from other programs. Hayes and Prince immediately come to mind.

Tubby is already in hot water in memphis because he's promoting saul over more qualified hires. He got himself in trouble at UK for the very same thing. The guy puts his friends and family over his duties as a coach. Always has.

I could be totally wrong about Martin, that's fine. But if Cal were gearing brad up for major minutes, you'd see chaotic recruiting just like you saw then.

Exactly what part is false?
The returning players from the 97 team (or redshirting) were: Mohammad, Magloire, Padgett, Evans, Edwards, Sheppard, Turner and some walkons (Mills & Masiello).
That is 2 C's, 2 F's, 1 Wing, 1 SG, and 1 PG.
Pitino has also brought in the following FR: Bradley, Anthony, & Hogan (a PF/C, F, and 2G).
The only PG Pitino had scheduled to be on the team was the SR Turner. And this was in an era when you rarely started a FR PG.
So Pitino had planned no backup for Turner in 98, and had no plan to start an experienced PG in 99.
There is NO DISPUTING these FACTS.

Now I will admit the rest is speculation, but reasonable speculation.
1) Tubby saw the gap in the 98 team (no backup for Turner)
2) There were no "good" uncommitted PGs (I'm not looking that up for you, but in 1998 top players didn't wait until May to commit.)
3) Tubby had a son that was a decent combo-guard, 3* mid-major prospect.
4) Realized his son (Saul) could fill the void that Pitino had left for the 98 team.
5) Once on the team, and getting backup minutes to Turner, other coaches used that as a way to tell PG recruits "you'll sit behind the coach's son at UK".
6) So having Saul on the team cost us being able to get a good PG for the 99-01 teams. The best Tubby was able to convince was Hawkins to come in Saul's SR year. Now you can put that partly on Tubby (certainly), but Pitino gets part of the blame as well.

Brad isn't nearly as good as Saul was, and Saul was just a mid-major caliber player. But Brad is a D-II caliber player at best. And Brad did play last year over other guys. He played only 9 less minutes than Wynyard, and played 5-7 times as much as other walkons David & Pulliam. But we are ok with that, because we won 32 games, and those guys are at the end of the bench.

Tubby did not recruit good enough for UK. I think all of us will agree to that! But he didn't miss on all the good players he targeted. Prince, Stone, Bogans, Camara, Hayes, Carruth, Rondo, Morris, Crawford, Meeks, Jasper, Patterson, Draymond Green. That doesn't include the good players he brought in that weren't high recruits (Fitch, Estill, Daniels, Azubuike, Bradley). I think the problem with Tubby's recruiting, isn't even that he was lazy. I think he was overly selective, trying to pick guys that "he liked" as people, and not appreciating that young kids in 2000 are different than they were even 10 years earlier, but that doesn't make them bad kids. So he passed on good players that he shouldn't have.

 

[morgousky]

Exactly what part is false?
The returning players from the 97 team (or redshirting) were: Mohammad, Magloire, Padgett, Evans, Edwards, Sheppard, Turner and some walkons (Mills & Masiello).
That is 2 C's, 2 F's, 1 Wing, 1 SG, and 1 PG.
Pitino has also brought in the following FR: Bradley, Anthony, & Hogan (a PF/C, F, and 2G).
The only PG Pitino had scheduled to be on the team was the SR Turner. And this was in an era when you rarely started a FR PG.
So Pitino had planned no backup for Turner in 98, and had no plan to start an experienced PG in 99.
There is NO DISPUTING these FACTS.

Now I will admit the rest is speculation, but reasonable speculation.
1) Tubby saw the gap in the 98 team (no backup for Turner)
2) There were no "good" uncommitted PGs (I'm not looking that up for you, but in 1998 top players didn't wait until May to commit.)
3) Tubby had a son that was a decent combo-guard, 3* mid-major prospect.
4) Realized his son (Saul) could fill the void that Pitino had left for the 98 team.
5) Once on the team, and getting backup minutes to Turner, other coaches used that as a way to tell PG recruits "you'll sit behind the coach's son at UK".
6) So having Saul on the team cost us being able to get a good PG for the 99-01 teams. The best Tubby was able to convince was Hawkins to come in Saul's SR year. Now you can put that partly on Tubby (certainly), but Pitino gets part of the blame as well.

I just didn't agree with the premise becsuse it was false.

Saul was going to be Tubby's PG at UK. As I said, he's still doing it today. Using his position to promote his son. Nothing has changed.

You blamed Pitino for Tubby's failures in recruiting. Even 3 years later. Imo that's a large stretch. Believing Pitino didn't leave a backup point guard at UK is fine, but it was Tubby's job to pick that slack up. Better call Saul. Unless you believe tubby was ACTIVELY recruiting OVER his son, and you might be one of a handful who actually believe that. His history in this arena is well documented, even today.

Tubby never could recruit. His best years were at UK in that field, because UK recruits itself in some ways and he had trouble here as well. 2 of our best players under tubby might not have even been here had their top choice offered. I believe Hayes has admitted this and the speculation with Prince to UCLA seemed to be pretty well known.

Pitino was leaving for the pros and everyone knew it. In the time before the OAD, it was devastating to his efforts. 4 year guys were not going to risk a hot aspiring coach on his way out. He left a great roster behind and Tubby couldn't keep up.

 

[morgousky]

Umm ...except that he didn't commit to UC "after 96." Most likely he committed the prior year in late 95 (as most recruits did then) or at the very latest early 96. I don't recall there being any rumors of real substance during that time period.

And, frankly, I've grown weary of this sort of weaselly excuse-making to cover for lies. I think people should tell the truth, and if one's long-term memory skills are this bad then perhaps that person shouldn't be stating his supposed memories in absolute terms.

Hell, I have no interest in Martin at all, yet even I saw the glaring flaw in his story the moment I read the quote. Pretty sad if random message board posters remember his life better than he does.

Pitino rumors to the NBA started well before 96/97. I didn't word that right.

I just figured it made sense because of how crazy it was getting around UK at that time. I don't know one way or the other though.

Everyone is so quick to point to others perceived motives and call someone a liar today. I think that's getting worse than the liars themselves tbh.

 

[UK90]

BTW, did we even recruit Martin? I followed our recruiting mighty closely back then, and I don't remember his name ever coming up as someone we were even interested in.

This entire story is just a laughable fabrication he made up. Guess he figured we'd all be too dumb to remember or know the difference.

.

 

[morgousky]

BTW, did we even recruit Martin? I followed our recruiting mighty closely back then, and I don't remember his name ever coming up as someone we were even interested in, much less offered.

This entire story is just a laughable fabrication he made up. Guess he figured we'd all be too dumb to remember or know the difference.

.

I honestly don't rememeber.

 

[JC CATS]

Those 96 and 97 squads with a freak like Kenyon Martin would have been bananas. Or more accurately, more bananas than they already were.

Maybe he was playing to the crowd. Maybe it's been 20 years and he's lived a memorable life and he forgot. It's clearly made up but I don't see that it does any harm, and if he's purposely lying at least he spoke about our program with that kind of respect. No harm done.

Stuff like this is also the reason I don't believe Wilt Chamberlain had a 50 inch vertical leap, bench pressed a thousand pounds, etc., by the way. People mix tidbits of information, vague timelines of events, nostalgic feelings and the benefit of hindsight and suddenly things in the past were much different than reality.

How about Wilt and 10,000 women, wonder if that is true?

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite]

So besides being Black....and playing for UC what were the thuggish actions Martin did?

 

[420grover]

So besides being Black....and playing for UC what were the thuggish actions Martin did?

I think he's Jamaal Magloire with more skills, athleticism, and tattoos

 

[Ugoff]

So besides being Black....and playing for UC what were the thuggish actions Martin did?

He murdered the Birdman...

 

[irishcat1965]

The difference is Cal closes the door. And today there is social media that allows him the ability to speak directly to recruits immediately to calm the flames. During the Pitino era, not only did Rick hurt himself by not closing the door (becase he wanted back in the NBA), but there was no real way to combat the situation. Back then is not now.

Also the OAD allows Cal the ability.to recruit on a year to year basis. A lot of his guys only expect to be at UK for one season, even the Briscoes and Lambs of the world. That gives him a great advantage on the rumors. He only has to squash them for the season. Pitino's recruits, even aspiring NBA guys, were looking at 3-4 years in most cases.

Not a good comparison at all imo.

Plus the fact that Pimptino is a pathological liar. It didn't matter what the POS said- it couldn't be believed.

 

[morgousky]

So besides being Black....and playing for UC what were the thuggish actions Martin did?

You seriously don't know why Martin was seen as thugish?

Was kind if a concensus back then.

Probably a little to do with UC as well. Very arrogant and rough/flamboyant teams, and not to mention their own coach was coined Bob "thuggins" for his teams strategies.

I'll ignore the black comment. Tired of arguing everything through an obsessive racial lens. It's making a minority of people deranged and parandoid.

Not helpful in any context.

 

[morgousky]

Plus the fact that Pimptino is a pathological liar. It didn't matter what the POS said- it couldn't be believed.

Appreciate that finish off.

 

[irishcat1965]

You seriously don't know why Martin was seen as thugish?

Was kind if a concensus back then.

Probably a little to do with UC as well. Very arrogant and rough/flamboyant teams, and not to mention their own coach was coined Bob "thuggins" for his teams strategies.

I'll ignore the black comment. Tired of arguing everything through an obsessive racial lens. It's making a minority of people deranged and parandoid.

Not helpful in any context.

I agree. I don't remember him doing anything that would label him thuggish. Unless you consider being black and being tatted up as thuggish. In which case, you show how ignorant you are.