Kentucky's recent history with Portal Players...

[MdWIldcat55]

No one can say how Mark Pope's hastily assembled Portal Paladins (that's for the old folks -- "Have Gun Will Travel") will fare. But one criticism I'm seeing that it's a patchwork, or ragtag bunch who were not highly recruited out of high school seems to imply those kind of players are inherently less effective than the dazzling 5-stars to which Kentucky fans have grown accustomed.

But even under Calipari, who clearly could not let go of his model of a half dozen high school NBA products a year, haven't we seen that the older, more experienced portal players are -- recruiting star-for-star superior?

It is a small sample. But think back to that period in 2021-2022 when Kentucky looked like world beaters, crushing eventual NCAA Tourney finalists North Carolina on a neutral court, Kansas at home and Tennessee when the Vols were Top Five. Wheeler and Kellan Grady -- along with transfer Oscar Tschiebwe-- were arguably the stars of the team during that run. Grady got hurt. Wheeler started trying to do too much. But for a useful sample of the season they were terrific.

Then you have the past two years. Who was the best player, despite rosters that included Top Ten high school recruits on both teams? The Southern Illinois transfer Antonio Reeves (and until he was hurt Mitchell.) And the year before Oscar and Jacob Toppin, the Rhode Island transfer, were hardly overmatched in the SEC.

Obviously, Kentucky wants better results than the past three NCAA tournaments. But everyone was satisfied that those teams had enough TALENT to get the job done -- with the right COACHING and the right offensive scheme.

So why couldn't Brea, Butler, Carr, Oweh, Williams, Garrison, Kriisa, perform as well as Reeves, Grady, Toppin, Wheeler, Oscar and Mitchell?

Some of us may still be prejudiced in favor of guys loaded with gaudy rankings coming out of high school.

 

[CatsnRoses]

There's a reason these kids have been in college so long. They're limited athletically which caps the upside/ceiling. We'll have a representative team, maybe even middle of the pack in the SEC, but if fans are expecting a top-4 seed in the NCAAT they're going to be disappointed.

 

[Smashcat]

but if fans are expecting a top-4 seed in the NCAAT they're going to be disappointed.

lol Nobody realistically thinks that. That said BYU was picked 13th in the Big 12 and finished 5th. I think Pope can give us a top 30 team next year if everything falls together and we avoid injuries.

 

[bookerfan66]

There's a reason these kids have been in college so long. They're limited athletically which caps the upside/ceiling. We'll have a representative team, maybe even middle of the pack in the SEC, but if fans are expecting a top-4 seed in the NCAAT they're going to be disappointed.

I don't agree with that at all because the NBA drafts so much on potential and not really what they do in one season.

 

[CatsnRoses]

lol Nobody realistically thinks that.

So that's a problem in itself. Even the optimists who are high on Pope can't paint a picture of Kentucky finishing as a top-16 team in the country in year one.

Just shows why this hire was so questionable to begin with.

 

[chroix]

Give me solid and fundamentally sound over athletic and low BB IQ all day long.

 

[CatsnRoses]

I don't agree with that at all because the NBA drafts so much on potential and not really what they do in one season.

And potential is based on what? Athleticism and upside. This team will lack that. That was my main point.

 

[CatsnRoses]

Give me solid and fundamentally sound over athletic and low BB IQ all day long.

There's a lot of solid and fundamentally sound teams in college basketball every year. Most miss the NCAAT.

 

[CatsnRoses]

Amazing how quickly the standards have dipped around here. Maybe by 2030 we'll be competing for Final Fours again! The excitement is palpable.

 

[lazycat75]

2021-2022 team run out of gas IMHO Grady was gassed out by the time the NCAA rolled around Both was battling injury's. TyTy Oscar Toppin I watched about 6 home games that yr most ever Got to set next to Shep and Stacy very cool people great times!

 

[chroix]

There's a lot of solid and fundamentally sound teams in college basketball every year. Most miss the NCAAT.

We’re not missing the tournament broseph.

 

[ThrowBackCat9]

So that's a problem in itself. Even the optimists who are high on Pope can't paint a picture of Kentucky finishing as a top-16 team in the country in year one.

Just shows why this hire was so questionable to begin with.

You at the beach? Because you’re awfully salty if not.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

So, you'd have said the same of Oscar, Mitchell, Toppin, Grady, Reeves and Wheeler? Those were arguably the best players on Kentucky's past three teams, all who'd started college down the food chain, in some cases outside the Power 5.

Shep, Dilly, Wallace and tyty say hi.

And we had some of our worst seasons under cal with more transfer heavy teams.

 

[lazycat75]

Amazing how quickly the standards have dipped around here. Maybe by 2030 we'll be competing for Final Fours again! The excitement is palpable.

I expect final 4s in yr 2 and 3 456 so on but all us fans will never think the same. That's asking the impossible Lol Some say next yr it could happen it damn well could also we never know.

 

[lazycat75]

2021-2022 team run out of gas IMHO Grady was gassed out by the time the NCAA rolled around Both was battling injury's. TyTy Oscar Toppin I watched about 6 home games that yr most ever Got to set next to Shep and Stacy very cool people great time

 

[MdWIldcat55]

Shep, Dilly, Wallace and tyty say hi.

And we had some of our worst seasons under cal with more transfer heavy teams.

Some of the worst results. But 2022 was a #2 seed, 2023 a #6 seed, and 2024 a #3 seed. Not great by Kentucky standards. But not historically terrible. And only one out of four of the players you listed performed worth a damn in the NCAA tournament, as I recall, so that's hardly an endorsement of "high ceiling potential."

 

[BlueRunner11]

So that's a problem in itself. Even the optimists who are high on Pope can't paint a picture of Kentucky finishing as a top-16 team in the country in year one.

Just shows why this hire was so questionable to begin with.

I can picture it. Think it has the potential to go a lot of different ways. Too much unknown still at the moment.

 

[Elliott Tim]

No one can say how Mark Pope's hastily assembled Portal Paladins (that's for the old folks -- "Have Gun Will Travel") will fare. But one criticism I'm seeing that it's a patchwork, or ragtag bunch who were not highly recruited out of high school seems to imply those kind of players are inherently less effective than the dazzling 5-stars to which Kentucky fans have grown accustomed.

But even under Calipari, who clearly could not let go of his model of a half dozen high school NBA products a year, haven't we seen that the older, more experienced portal players are -- recruiting star-for-star superior?

It is a small sample. But think back to that period in 2021-2022 when Kentucky looked like world beaters, crushing eventual NCAA Tourney finalists North Carolina on a neutral court, Kansas at home and Tennessee when the Vols were Top Five. Wheeler and Kellan Grady -- along with transfer Oscar Tschiebwe-- were arguably the stars of the team during that run. Grady got hurt. Wheeler started trying to do too much. But for a useful sample of the season they were terrific.

Then you have the past two years. Who was the best player, despite rosters that included Top Ten high school recruits on both teams? The Southern Illinois transfer Antonio Reeves, and until he was hurt Mitchell. And the year before Oscar and Jacob Toppin, the Rhode Island transfer, were hardly overmatched in the SEC.

Obviously, Kentucky wants better results than the past three NCAA tournaments. But everyone was satisfied that those teams had enough TALENT to get the job done -- with the right COACHING and the right offensive scheme.

So why couldn't Brea, Butler, Carr, Oweh, Williams, Garrison, Kriisa, perform as well as Reeves, Grady, Toppin, Wheeler, Oscar and Mitchell?

Some of us may still be prejudiced in favor of guys loaded with gaudy rankings coming out of high school.

Or not trusting the process.

 

[1STSergeant]

Top 20 team all year? Top 10 in Feb. 3 seed. Go Cats.

 

[BradleyCrawford08]

Shit Wallace too! Team was damn good

Wallace was on the 2022-23 team.

 

[billoliver40]

So that's a problem in itself. Even the optimists who are high on Pope can't paint a picture of Kentucky finishing as a top-16 team in the country in year one.

Just shows why this hire was so questionable to begin with.

No one in their right mind was predicting a final four run after every player and all recruits but one left.

Man being a fan is great, but just a teaspoon of reality is needed.

 

[CatFanInIlliniLand]

Amazing how quickly the standards have dipped around here. Maybe by 2030 we'll be competing for Final Fours again! The excitement is palpable.

2030 is 6 years away (5 by the end of next season).

Remind me again, when was the last time we went to a final four under Cal? How many years ago was that?

 

[lazycat75]

Wallace was on the 2022-23 team.

Right Right my bad

 

[HagginHall1999]

lol Nobody realistically thinks that. That said BYU was picked 13th in the Big 12 and finished 5th. I think Pope can give us a top 30 team next year if everything falls together and we avoid injuries.

I do and doubt I will be disappointed. I think a bunch of folks are about to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Jack2936]

Amazing how quickly the standards have dipped around here. Maybe by 2030 we'll be competing for Final Fours again! The excitement is palpable.

 

[ib4ky]

I don't give two flying ***** what their evaluated ceiling or NBA potential is or could be!!!!
ALL that I'm concerned about is the product on the floor as a TEAM, NOT individualism that translates into a draft pick come June!!!
There are so many people who think they already know what tomorrow brings and guess what, they DON'T!!!!

The talent in UK's 2023/24 freshman class was their best since probably 2017 and what were the results, a meh year, sucked in SEC tourney, REALLY sucked in NCAA!!!! NO ONE WOULD HAVE EXPECTED EITHER OF THOSE PITIFUL RESULTS, based on having a HOF coach and the perceived talent on last years team!!!

WEIRD FACTS:
In 2024, 1st Team All-SEC had SIX out of the eight players were previous portal transfers, 3-Juniors, 2-Seniors, 3-5th/year Seniors........

These transfers were from powerhouse blue-bloods like Ohio, Morehead St, U C Riverside, Illinois St, Western Ky, Northern Colorado.​

In 2024, 1st Team All American had two out five players were previous portal transfers, 1-Junior, 1-5th/year Senior.......

One of these transfers, at their previous school (Overall W-L 15-15/ League 6-11) averaged:
17.7-ppg/ 4.8-rbpg /5.0-astpg/ 3.5-topg/ 43.5% fg/ 33.3% 3-pt (48-144)/ 87.9% ft.
He will leave his 5th year of college as a 1st team All American with TWO NCAA Championships and get drafted somewhere possibly in 2nd round, Tristen Newton.............
NO ONE can determine what the future holds!!!!
😉😉😉

 

[DreadLox]

Amazing how quickly the standards have dipped around here. Maybe by 2030 we'll be competing for Final Fours again! The excitement is palpable.

What kind of expectations do you think appropriate? Pitino went 13-13. And he had players returning. Calipari brought his Memphis recruiting class with him. That seemed a bit skeevy to me and isn't really possible these days.

Do you imagine there's some kind of Kentucky Pixie Dust to sprinkle on players that turns them into All Americas? Or that the allure of fans dissecting/dissing every gesture is just too strong for high school athletes to resist?

Pope's a fantastic coach and we're lucky to have him. His tenure here will be full of enjoyable basketball.

 

[DDMatUK=NBA]

There's a reason these kids have been in college so long. They're limited athletically which caps the upside/ceiling. We'll have a representative team, maybe even middle of the pack in the SEC, but if fans are expecting a top-4 seed in the NCAAT they're going to be disappointed.

Are you old enough to remember Pitino's early teams? It's a simple yes or no question and doesn't require any elaboration whatsoever.

 

[kennyskywalker34]

There's a reason these kids have been in college so long. They're limited athletically which caps the upside/ceiling. We'll have a representative team, maybe even middle of the pack in the SEC, but if fans are expecting a top-4 seed in the NCAAT they're going to be disappointed.

You have no clue how UK will do next year. No one does. NC State was just loaded with 5 star players (Not) There are a handful of teams every year that get hot in March and make runs.
UK has a good coach. He won at Byu if you can do that you can coach.
UK has expirenced players. Players that have actually won games with their previous schools in the NCAAT.
UK has good defensive players. UK has some good shooters.
There will likely be a period early where they play some bad games. None of these guys have played together.
UK will have a team more than capable of making a run in March.
I'll be very surprised if they don't win some games in March. How many? No idea. Tournament is about who's hot who's not and the right matchups and a lot of luck.
Very few years do you see one team dominate like UCONN has the past couple years.
It's usually 10 or so teams that have a legitimate shot at winning it plus a 2-3 more teams that get hot at the right time like NC State this past year.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Some of the worst results. But 2022 was a #2 seed, 2023 a #6 seed, and 2024 a #3 seed. Not great by Kentucky standards. But not historically terrible. And only one out of four of the players you listed performed worth a damn in the NCAA tournament, as I recall, so that's hardly an endorsement of "high ceiling potential."

Wheeler was dog crap in the ncaa tourney. He quit like a female dog his 2nd year here.

Grady didn't play well against st Peter's either. Toppin didn't do a ton in his appearances either.

Oscar was amazing in all his games. He was player of the year though so not a surprise.

Reeves had an all time awful game against ksu. He did play well against Oakland and providence.

 

[blue cincy]

Amazing how quickly the standards have dipped around here. Maybe by 2030 we'll be competing for Final Fours again! The excitement is palpable.

Most pathetic thing I have seen. I am guessing UK was nothing before CAL. Get out of here with this crap. Just plain idiotic.

There have been teams since our last Championship that won at the highest level and not have one decent NBA level player. College players (with Experience) that are good level talent can and will continue to win. This might not be our year, then again it might be a great year.

We all need to quit acting like we are experts when it comes to college athletics. This is not the NBA and heck the NBA is not the NBA any longer. Most pathetic excuse for basketball I have ever witnessed. I will never watch an NBA game again including the finals. That is not basketball. That is And one tour crap. walks every play, crap play, carries on ever dribble. Problem has been with CAL that he has been bringing in that crap level attitude of the NBA. Wins do not matter, get me to the league and i get a big contract, blah blah blah.

Just plain CRAP!!!!

 

[Elliott Tim]

No one in their right mind was predicting a final four run after every player and all recruits but one left.

Man being a fan is great, but just a teaspoon of reality is needed.

I won't be surprised if some of the fans change speed once the season starts.

 

[KyCatFan]

For the past 15 years we've recruited mostly 5/4 star athletes who only care about the name on the back of the jersey. It worked when Cal got the elite of the elite. Since 2016 though, it just stopped working. It came close a couple of times but we never could regain the success from the first 6 years.

It's been especially bad the last 4 years. We've been an average of about 6th in the recruiting rankings (Rivals) and we've only won 1 SEC Tournament game and 1 NCAA Tournament game in that time. It clearly stopped working with the caliber of players we've been getting. Those being 5/4 star athletes who have their foot out the door before even getting here.

No one is winning with loaded freshmen classes anymore. The teams with the most success are doing it with rosters full of experienced players. That is the route Coach Pope is taking. It has worked for him at places that are hard to excel at. We will have a team full of experienced basketball players instead of highly ranked freshmen athletes.

I bet we see much greater success in the next 4 years than the previous 4. It will be interesting to watch how our new version of team building does in comparison to Cal trying to keep his freshman dominated system going in Arkansas. I have a feeling he will be forced to adapt or he will be gone in a few years (3 or 4).

 

[cats2010]

Amazing how quickly the standards have dipped around here. Maybe by 2030 we'll be competing for Final Fours again! The excitement is palpable.

How have the standards dipped? Pope is less than a month into his tenure, still an incomplete roster and not a game to be played for 5 1/2 months. This is a new era and it will be an exciting one. From the sound of it I’m guessing you are about to witness what actual coaching looks like for the first time in your life. Far inferior teams (talent wise) have been beating us regularly the past 8-9 seasons because of coaching, Yes pope will get somewhat of a pass season 1 as he should but expectations will only grow with each season. With the portal and NIL it’s not unreasonable to think by year 3 or 4 we will in fact be competing for final fours. With a strong 1st season and getting himself on the map at UK with his coaching and style of play could even be year 2. This is going to be a process that I think UK fans will actually enjoy unlike the previous regime.