Kentucky football’s chances of breaking through in the East all comes down to very good quarterback play. This is if everything else remains strong.

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

How did mack look the last time he faced Saban? Kirby isnt perfect by any stretch. But we were ahead of UF when our QB was slammed on his shoulder last fall and led Bama at halftime last season with 2 starting defenders out. Vol fans think the same, yet he is 4-1 against then, UF fans th he same, yet he is 3-2 against UF and 3-1 against Mullen. The eventual national champion has ended our chance to win it 3 times in Kirbys time at UGA, 4 if 20 is counted, without the loss to Bama we win the East last year.

So saying Kirby cant coach himself out of a phone booth sounds like sour grapes, did UNC try to hire him when he was at Bama?

Kirby has more talent than Saban. Great recruiter, average coach. He's like Mark Richt with slightly better players. Don't believe me, look at their numbers. Kirby's first 4 years almost identical to Richt's first 4 years...hell last four years too. Like I said, great recruiter, average coach.

 

[Samurai Cat]

. Like I said, great recruiter, average coach.

Pretty much sums up Mack Brown as well.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

DYK....Hartline is the last UK QB to throw for 3000+ yards in a season? The same Hartline some here loved to hate.

Easily the most slept on uk player of the last twenty years.

Second? Aj rose. Sandwiched between two of the best running backs in school history made it easy for fans to overlook what he did here.

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

Pretty much sums up Mack Brown as well.

Mack Brown has his faults. He's lost to FSU (most of the time with less talent) and UVA. But he also has a national championship, another national championship appearance, 2 BIG12 titles. That was before the playoffs, so finishing third or fourth meant you were shit out of luck. And TX hasn't been back in the nearly 10 years since he left.

We were 2-9 before he took over. So in two years he took us to a NY6 bowl. If that's average or underachieving then I'll happily take it. Kirby is batting an 0-fer against teams with equal or more talent. And he isn't doing much better than Richt did against teams with less talent.

 

[mrschwump]

Easily the most slept on uk player of the last twenty years.

Second? Aj rose. Sandwiched between two of the best running backs in school history made it easy for fans to overlook what he did here.

Agree and re Rose... concern I have is who gets Rose's 10-15 carries as CRod's backup? Common sense tells us Smoke but Smoke has been erratic and injury prone in his career. Next in line I guess are McClain/Tisdale but they're pretty small for carries inside the tackles. Guy I'm anxious to see is Torrance Davis. He's a big guy with decent speed.

 

[Samurai Cat]

Mack Brown has his faults. He's lost to FSU (most of the time with less talent) and UVA. But he also has a national championship, another national championship appearance, 2 BIG12 titles and won the division just about every year at TX. He was there seven years and that was before the playoffs, so finishing third or fourth meant you were shit out of luck. And TX hasn't been back in the nearly 10 years since he left.

We were 2-9 before he took over. So in two years he took us to a NY6 bowl. If that's underachieving then I'll happily take it. Kirby is batting an 0-fer against teams with equal or more talent. And he isn't doing much better than Richt did against teams with less talent.

If you think Kirby has more talent then Saban does, you're quite mistaken. Maybe close, but not quite.

Brown won 2 big 12 titles and 1 NC in 16 years at a school with more resources than prolly 99.9% of that conference. Not exactly impressive.

Additionally he's been in the coaching business since 1973, whereas Kirby started in 1999.

Not trying to bust your chops but for somebody to judge Kirby as underwhelming compared to the HC of your current team seems quite odd. Especially when Kirby has to compete in the "NFL developmental league"

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

If you think Kirby has more talent then Saban does, you're quite mistaken. Maybe close, but not quite.

Brown won 2 big 12 titles and 1 NC in 16 years at a school with more resources than prolly 99.9% of that conference. Not exactly impressive.

Additionally he's been in the coaching business since 1973, whereas Kirby started in 1999.

Not trying to bust your chops but for somebody to judge Kirby as underwhelming compared to the HC of your current team seems quite odd. Especially when Kirby has to compete in the "NFL developmental league"

TOS has an overall talent ranking. You can check it out whenever you'd like. And nice hedge on "resources." I guess Bob Stoops was an ok resource for Oklahoma.

 

[Samurai Cat]

TOS has an overall talent ranking. You can check it out whenever you'd like. And nice hedge on "resources." I guess Bob Stoops was an ok resource for Oklahoma.

Yeah, but we all know the accuracy of those "ranking" services. More often then not they're garbage.

If you think Bob Stoops at OU had more resources than UT, then I've got oceanfront property in Nebraska Id love to offer you. 😆

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

Yeah, but we all know the accuracy of those "ranking" services. More often then not they're garbage.

If you think Bob Stoops at OU had more resources than UT, then I've got oceanfront property in Nebraska Id love to offer you. 😆

I mean, that's the composite, so all three ranking services? They might be off by a little bit one direction or the other but what else are you going to use? They damn sure have more talent than Vandy, South Carolina and Florida.

Point being that Bob Stoops and Oklahoma during that time period were a national power. The BIG12 was a lot better. So, the insinution that TX stood head-and-shouders above everyone, while Kirby has to go through the NFL (with a more talented roster than anyone) doesn't carry a lot of water. TX at least makes a couple more NC appearances had there been a playoff system as well.

I'm not the one that brought up the comparison. Frankly, I think it's pretty dumb given the context. But fact is Mack has the hardware. Kirby doesn't.

Better comparison for the coversation would be Kirby Smart v Dan Mullen. Haven't looked it up, but I'd bet there's an argument for Mullen, an average recruiter, being a better coach, despite the head-to-head. Or, like I said, look at Mark Richt.

 

[Samurai Cat]

I mean, that's the composite, so all three ranking services? They might be off by a little bit one direction or the other but what else are you going to use?

Point being that Bob Stoops and Oklahoma during that time period were a national power. The BIG12 was a lot better. So, the insinution that TX stood head-and-shouders above everyone, while Kirby has to go through the NFL (with a more talented roster than anyone) doesn't carry a lot of water. TX at least makes a couple more NC appearances had there been a playoff system as well.

I'm not the one that brought up the comparison. Frankly, I think it's pretty dumb given the context. But Mack has the hardware. Kirby doesn't.

Better comparison for the coversation would be Kirby Smart v Dan Mullen. Haven't looked it up, but I'd bet there's an argument for Mullen, an average recruiter, being a better coach, despite the head-to-head

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

No text after your quotes. Not sure what that's supposed to mean.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Kirby has more talent than Saban. Great recruiter, average coach. He's like Mark Richt with slightly better players. Don't believe me, look at their numbers. Kirby's first 4 years almost identical to Richt's first 4 years...hell last four years too. Like I said, great recruiter, average coach.

Richt didnt have the current Saban in the league like Kitby had when he arrived. The entire SEC was a different beast. The funny think is, just like kirby Mack's strength is his recruiting, but in Kirby you see it as a weakness that he is a great recruiter, but not with Mack. The only coach in the Sec he doesnt have a winning record against is Saban, who in the last 10 years does? I haven't checked or done the math, but he probably has the highest winning percentage in the SEC next to Saban, but cant coach? Give me a break.

No idea where you came up with UGA has more talent than Bama, we had to start a former walkon QB the first half of the season, Defense is a thing of the past Bama had 5 offensive guys taken in the first round. We beat them for the NC if not for a blown call, and a no call by the same official on a motion call on their tying TD, on a 4th down. If mack and Kirby were fired, kirby would be UNC's first call.

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

Richt didnt have the current Saban in the league like Kitby had when he arrived. The entire SEC was a different beast. The funny think is, just like kirby Mack's strength is his recruiting, but in Kirby you see it as a weakness that he is a great recruiter, but not with Mack. The only coach in the Sec he doesnt have a winning record against is Saban, who in the last 10 years does? I haven't checked or done the math, but he probably has the highest winning percentage in the SEC next to Saban, but cant coach? Give me a break.

I don't think it's a weakness at all. But let's be honest, the talent flowing through Athens doesn't translate the same as it does at Alabama. That's the knock on Kirby. At what point do you say, we're the most talented team in cfb, we should not lose to Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Florida and badly to Alabama after leading at halftime. Those are bad losses with that much talent. And until you prove otherwise, you are what your record says you are...Right now, Kirby is Mark Richt 2.0.

 

[Samurai Cat]

No text after your quotes. Not sure what that's supposed to mean.

Since 2018, Saban had 39 draft picks enter the league, Kirby 29. Advantage: Saban. To say Kirby has more talent than anybody is just false

Brown has the hardware, 1 title in 16 years. Kirby has only been at UGa 6. It's a dumb argument in that Kirby still has 10 years to go to do a fair comparison.

And sure the BIG 12 was tough then...but not like the SEC has been in Kirbys tenure

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

Since 2018, Saban had 39 draft picks enter the league, Kirby 29. Advantage: Saban. To say Kirby has more talent than anybody is just false

Brown has the hardware, 1 title in 16 years. Kirby has only been at UGa 6. It's a dumb argument in that Kirby still has 10 years to go to do a fair comparison.

And sure the BIG 12 was tough then...but not like the SEC has been in Kirbys tenure

Wrong. Talent =/= draft picks. Talent that's developed into production leads to draft picks. You should know that as a UK fan.

It's dumb not just because the difference in careers, but also because they've coached in different eras - BCS v CFP. But, again, I'm not the one that brought it up. That was you. I've given you better comparisons, but for whatever reason you keep making the same one. Unfortunately, it's not going to do anything to improve Kirby's record.

 

[Samurai Cat]

Wrong. Talent =/= draft picks. Talent that's developed into production leads to draft picks. You should know that as a UK fan.

It's dumb not just because the difference in careers, but also because they've coached in different eras. I've given you better comparisons, but for whatever reason you keep making the same one. Unfortunately, it's not going to do anything to improve Kirby's record.

Fair point. I do like what stoops has done with development..in all areas sans QB/WR positions. Additionally, he just can't seem to get elite talent in those areas.

Still don't buy he's had more talent than Bama... Recruiting services be dammed. I think he's been somewhat snakebit too (lost players to other schools, blown calls, key injuries etc) but that's football.

Bottom line: my opinion is that jury is still out on Smart. If he loses to anybody not named Alabama or not make the playoff this season or the next , you may be on to something.

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

Fair point. I do like what stoops has done with development..in all areas sans QB/WR positions. Additionally, he just can't seem to get elite talent in those areas.

Still don't buy he's had more talent than Bama... Recruiting services be dammed. I think he's been somewhat snakebit too (lost players to other schools, blown calls, key injuries etc) but that's football.

Bottom line: my opinion is that jury is still out on Smart. If he loses to anybody not named Alabama or not make the playoff this season or the next , you may be on to something.

UGA has a shit ton of talent. If it's not more then Alabama it's pretty close. And I definitely agree the jury is still out on Smart. He could certainly help his case by winning a big game or two. But until he does, I'm going to give Grumpy a hard time.

 

[Samurai Cat]

UGA has a shit ton of talent. If it's not more then Alabama it's pretty close. And I definitely agree the jury is still out on Smart. He could certainly help his case by winning a big game or two. But until he does, I'm going to give Grumpy a hard time.

Fair enough. Grumpy's good people. Take it easy on him

 

[wildcat_bigd]

Great game manager, great at reading the defense and changing the play, rarely made negative plays. That'll make up for physical limitations.

Had a backwards pass at crucial time against Alabama

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Agree and re Rose... concern I have is who gets Rose's 10-15 carries as CRod's backup? Common sense tells us Smoke but Smoke has been erratic and injury prone in his career. Next in line I guess are McClain/Tisdale but they're pretty small for carries inside the tackles. Guy I'm anxious to see is Torrance Davis. He's a big guy with decent speed.

We need it or be smoke but I think it will be McClain. Smoke is yet to show the patience or vision for zones. Tisdale seems to be getting moved to slot to give him a chance at seeing the field.

Best case scenario is smoke learns patience and vision which puts him in position to be the top back next season. Imo a longshot because I don't think vision can be taught

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

Fair enough. Grumpy's good people. Take it easy on him

He knows I'm just messing with him or at least I hope he does. Except about how Kirby got his last name. I really think he was switched at birth and his parents got the wrong baby. Wouldn't you agree @Grumpyolddawg ?

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I don't think it's a weakness at all. But let's be honest, the talent flowing through Athens doesn't translate the same as it does at Alabama. That's the knock on Kirby. At what point do you say, we're the most talented team in cfb, we should not lose to Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Florida and badly to Alabama after leading at halftime. Those are bad losses with that much talent. And until you prove otherwise, you are what your record says you are...Right now, Kirby is Mark Richt 2.0.

Mark Richt never played for a NC. Kirby has played for 1 his 2nd year. The team that beat us his third year for the SEC championship, won the NC, same for his 4th year, 5th year was the 2 teams that played for the SEC championship and won the NC gave us our w losses. If we fired Kirby tonight he would have his choice of about 125 jobs including UNC.

Its damn amazing that it took Saban 9 years to win his first championship and Dabo was about to be fired after his 5th season while Kirby has a higher winning percentage and more conference championships after 5 years than either one, yet he cant coach, you sounding like a vol fan, who Kirby owns.

 

[Greasy Creak Mafia]

I am true blue all day but watching that game slip away in the new Mercedes Benz Bowl stadium in their back yard and Saban pulled the most wildcard decision ever with a true freshman and pulled out a win with no dog in the fight at all I truly felt for their team and fans when it slipped away. The Badgers 🦡 still badgers me today so I know that sting. We been jerked from Wins to many times to mention at Kentucky with bad calls or no calls you name it the zebras Chris Coyoted us for years. Blatant bad calls with no shame or remorse and the world sees they’re wrong. Coyote should never work the profession again to pull that stunt.

Hershell Walker in 81 was my first NC I watched on a wood grained Zenith that had a half a mile a tv wire ran up the mountain to pick up CJ. 6 & 10 and I remember them playing Penn St. I don’t hate their fans at our games like Florida & Louisville and Tennessee fans. But I thought about our 38-1 season and the bad calls we got through the years etc. and just felt bad for their fans because that opportunity may never come again in ATL like that. It’s a gut punch.

I’m ready for pig epidermis.

 

[The-Hack]

after 5 years than either one, yet he cant coach, you sounding like a vol fan, who Kirby owns.

Grumpy, all you say is true in comparison to Saban and Dabo, but his essential comparison is to Mark Richt’s first 5/6 seasons, and they are pretty close. Richt would have had a playoff appearance or two under the 4 team scenario of today, including 2007, LSU’s title year when Geogia finished a solid Third in the nation.

I will not say Kirby can’t coach, as he has owned the East since 2017, but the comparison to Richt at similar junctures is apt.

 

[23jumpboy]

We could potentially beat anybody or get beat by anybody. Like living and dying by the 3 pointer, you have an off day and get beat by Akron. When the QB graduated we were somewhat atrocious. Those offenses were fun but it makes you appreciate the strong foundation Stoops has built in OL, defense, and RB. Now throw in a 3k passing offense and we’re top 10 in the country.

Actually, the offense under Joker was very explosive and very balanced behind a solid offensive line. 09 and 10 was some very good offense. 06 and 07 were scary good.

 

[Deeeefense]

Actually, the offense under Joker was very explosive and very balanced behind a solid offensive line. 09 and 10 was some very good offense. 06 and 07 were scary good.

The Brooks/Joker defense/offense combo was pretty darn good. Good enough to upset #1 LSU. What they lacked was recruiting and player development and that kept them from getting past 7 win type seasons.

 

[matt_man]

Actually, the offense under Joker was very explosive and very balanced behind a solid offensive line. 09 and 10 was some very good offense. 06 and 07 were scary good.

And like I said, when the QB graduated our offense was atrocious. 2008, Cobb was our best QB trying to replace Woodson, and defense carried us. 2011 Newton tried to replace Hartline. Also, like I compared it to living and dying by the 3, look who we beat and look who beat us. Our line was good but not like today’s.

 

[23jumpboy]

And like I said, when the QB graduated our offense was atrocious. 2008, Cobb was our best QB trying to replace Woodson, and defense carried us. 2011 Newton tried to replace Hartline. Also, like I compared it to living and dying by the 3, look who we beat and look who beat us. Our line was good but not like today’s.

Who was the offensive line coach under Brooks/Joker?

 

[The-Hack]

And like I said, when the QB graduated our offense was atrocious.

Your analysis is pretty darn solid.

For the better part of two decades, our only success came by winging the ball, occasionally upsetting a power by doing so and winning our OOC games.

These times are different. The team is built from the lines out, with strong defenses and secondaries.

In an odd way, we have become what for many seasons was LSU (not all seasons, FreeTaxReturn). Many years I watched LSU win 7/8 or 9 games and wondered what they could have done with a real quarterback. They always had big lines and talented position players, but QB was their most frequent weak spot.

 

[The-Hack]

Our line was good but not like today’s.

I thought we had a real good O-line in 2006/2008 era, but it took until Larry Warford in ‘10 or ‘11 to break our drought of no O-linemen drafted, since the 90’s.

Look at our 9 deep on O-line and tell me a name that you feel confident will not get drafted. Some won’t, but I would have a hard time picking, as folks like Cole Cubelic have picked them No. 1 in the SEC.

 

[The-Hack]

The Brooks/Joker defense/offense combo was pretty darn good. Good enough to upset #1 LSU.

I have to lean to the emphasis on the quality of QB play for the ‘07
season when we upset LSU. That season we ranked 81st in scoring defense.

Then in ‘08, we ranked 35th, our first Top 50 finish since Jerry Claiborne.

 

[matt_man]

Who was the offensive line coach under Brooks/Joker?

Steve “Turd” Brown - DC
Sanders- OC/QB
Ortmeyer - ST
Joker - WR

It’s actually kinda tough to find with a quick google search.

 

[23jumpboy]

Steve “Turd” Brown - DC
Sanders- OC/QB
Ortmeyer - ST
Joker - WR

It’s actually kinda tough to find with a quick google search.

Thats why we have guys like you

 

[23jumpboy]

Mike Summers, wow, found him on Yahoo

 

[RoosterBooster1]

I will give him this: Kirby is pretty good at winning recruiting titles and with premature Heisman favorite QBs. Truthfully, I feel like he doesn't get enough credit as a QB whisperer. Simply amazing what he did with Justin Fields.

It’s fair to say he has been one game away from glory most of his tenure, but winning the conference and playing in the NC game are solid achievements and he has had a stranglehold on the East most years so it’s not like he is a clown as some like to say. One game a year away from greatness? Yes, but he has been knocking on the door a bunch, he is close. His winning% has to be really high vs even some of the all time greats.

 

[rye48]

I think we need Hartline’s 2010 numbers or better to break through Georgia’s and Florida’s death grip on the East. We have the running game, strong offensive line, strong depth returning on the defense. Now the next step is quarterback play.

Woodson's maybe but hardine's won't cut it

 

[BC_Wader]

Easily the most slept on uk player of the last twenty years.

Second? Aj rose. Sandwiched between two of the best running backs in school history made it easy for fans to overlook what he did here.

Add a few more years on there

Easily the most slept on uk player of the last twenty years.

Second? Aj rose. Sandwiched between two of the best running backs in school history made it easy for fans to overlook what he did here.

Twenty years or not, the most slept on player in the history of UK football is Anthony White. Absolutely loved that dude. He got zero pub and is quite often forgotten.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Add a few more years on there

Twenty years or not, the most slept on player in the history of UK football is Anthony White. Absolutely loved that dude. He got zero pub and is quite often forgotten.

I remember pretty clearly that he got tons of credit back then, and deservedly so. Over time his memory was overshadowed by the QB.

Neither Hartline nor rose were appreciated even in their time in uniform. Fans even legit booed Hartline. It was embarrassing.

 

[BC_Wader]

I remember pretty clearly that he got tons of credit back then, and deservedly so. Over time his memory was overshadowed by the QB.

Neither Hartline nor rose were appreciated even in their time in uniform. Fans even legit booed Hartline. It was embarrassing.

I remember the booing. It was uncalled for. I will never boo one of our guys. He had a rocky career here, but made amends eventually with his play. He turned into a pretty good qb for us when it was all said and done. Some guys just take a while to get it. Thanks for all you did Hartline.

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

Oops, my bad, got a little long winded in my thoughts. Hehehehe

Actually I liked your post. The long title was icing 😅