Joker Phillips as OC

[FtWorthCat]

Before anyone starts bashing me, I don't want to bring him back. But I was thinking, Joker may have been the best OC (it's him or Mike Leach) we've had in my lifetime. Probably the second worst head coach (ahead of John Ray), but that is beside the point. Joker saved Rich Brooks' job. The offense took off when Brooks replaced Ron Hudson with Joker. The 2007 is the best all-around, gimmick-free, offense we've ever had, 36.5 points and 450 yards per game.

2007 Kentucky Wildcats Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

2007 Kentucky Wildcats Stats

www.sports-reference.com

 

[yoshukai]

Before anyone starts bashing me, I don't want to bring him back. But I was thinking, Joker may have been the best OC we've had in my lifetime. Probably the second worst head coach (ahead of John Ray), but that is beside the point. Joker saved Rich Brooks' job. The offense took off when Brooks replaced Ron Hudson with Joker. The 2007 is the best all-around, gimmick-free, offense we've ever had, 36.5 points and 450 yards per game.

2007 Kentucky Wildcats Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

2007 Kentucky Wildcats Stats

www.sports-reference.com

Joker did a fine job as OC .

 

[phunterd]

Joker was solid as OC. Would have no complaints if that ever happened again. Both 2006 and 2007 had very good offenses.

 

[bthaunert]

Problem is this isn't 2007. The last time Joker was an OC (Maryland in 2019 and 2020), they were 95th and 98th in the nation in points per game. He was great for us back then, but not sure 61 year old Joker Phillips is the answer now.

 

[Boz]

you got to be on some serious drugs. I don't want the Joker anywhere near this program.

 

[FtWorthCat]

I'm not saying I want him back at UK at all. Nobody runs the old "pro style" offense anymore. But I liked that offense because it utilized all of the weapons. We were strong at RB, WR and TE with that offense. We even had one of the last great college fullbacks.

 

[jeffky]

Before anyone starts bashing me, I don't want to bring him back. But I was thinking, Joker may have been the best OC (it's him or Mike Leach) we've had in my lifetime. Probably the second worst head coach (ahead of John Ray), but that is beside the point. Joker saved Rich Brooks' job. The offense took off when Brooks replaced Ron Hudson with Joker. The 2007 is the best all-around, gimmick-free, offense we've ever had, 36.5 points and 450 yards per game.

2007 Kentucky Wildcats Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

2007 Kentucky Wildcats Stats

www.sports-reference.com

 

[bigblueinsanity]

He was fine. Gran is the best since Leach because of both ability and fit.

In terms of just pure talent, its coen. But coen couldn't adapt like Gran. Thats fine because not many can. The only other knock was complexity which made it tough with practice limitations.

I know people hated him, but scang was really underrated. He had a crap OL with a mediocre guard trying to play tackle and much younger versions of cox and jager. Still won in the swamp and had ole miss beat but for the mental lapse by both levis and brown of not getting set.

 

[entropy13]

He was fine. Gran is the best since Leach because of both ability and fit.

In terms of just pure talent, its coen. But coen couldn't adapt like Gran. Thats fine because not many can. The only other knock was complexity which made it tough with practice limitations.

I know people hated him, but scang was really underrated. He had a crap OL with a mediocre guard trying to play tackle and much younger versions of cox and jager. Still won in the swamp and had ole miss beat but for the mental lapse by both levis and brown of not getting set.

Strongly agree with your first two paragraphs but disagree with the last. Scang ran an overly complicated scheme that didn't translate well from the NFL to college, so he also failed to adapt. This also caused our offense to run excruciatingly slowly. Wasn't it the slowest or second slowest among FBS teams?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Strongly agree with your first two paragraphs but disagree with the last. Scang ran an overly complicated scheme that didn't translate well from the NFL to college, so he also failed to adapt. This also caused our offense to run excruciatingly slowly. Wasn't it the slowest or second slowest among FBS teams?

He had no OL. Freshman wrs. Without crod 4 games. Had tayvion quit about midway through. An inconsistent levis (which is just how levis is without wandale).

I thought he did well. It was just a big step down from coen which 1) isnt a fair comparison generally and 2) had way less talent and experience on O.

 

[gamecockcat]

Hell no.

My biggest problem with Joker's offense is that year after year we needed a QB in the program for 3+ years before they could run the dang thing. The excuse was always, 'Well, it takes few years in the program to really understand the offense.' My contention then and now is that means the system was WAY too complicated. In today's CFB, no way you'd keep a QB 2 or more years without significant playing time to absorb the 'system'.

As OC with Woodson, Stevie, et al, yes, Joker looked like a good OC. His recruiting was laughably bad and bad offenses followed the precipitous drop in quality players (just like everyone else, honestly). No thank you. And, I don't believe he was all that good overall as an OC. We had one really good year with a lot of quality players. Other than that, we didn't exactly set the world on fire.

 

[truebluewildcat]

I’d take him and Randy Sanders back today to run offense!

40ish tuds with Andre Woodson. More impressive few turnovers…he broke a record for passes without an int during that stretch.

They didn’t have the depth/talent on D stoops does, but he doesn’t have the offense coaching, scheme, development of talent within said offense, that they did.

Combine the best of both worlds.

Those two could coach offensive circles around everyone stoops has had combined!

 

[The-Hack]

Before anyone starts bashing me, I don't want to bring him back.

you got to be on some serious drugs. I don't want the Joker anywhere near this program.

Who’s on drugs?

 

[entropy13]

He had no OL. Freshman wrs. Without crod 4 games. Had tayvion quit about midway through. An inconsistent levis (which is just how levis is without wandale).

I thought he did well. It was just a big step down from coen which 1) isnt a fair comparison generally and 2) had way less talent and experience on O.

Agreed that a bad OL undermined a lot of things, but a good, or even above average, OC can overcome at least some of that with scheme, tempo, etc. Scang did the opposite and exacerbated that fundamental problem. The stats speak for themselves.

Points/Game 19.1 (#111)
Yards/Game 307.9 (#114)
Points/Play 0.294 (#109)
Yards/Play 4.7 (#113)

Scang was a terrible fit. He was one of many problems we had on O that year. Probably not the main one, but definitely a part of it. We won the 4 games C-Rod missed, 3 of which were cupcakes, Florida being the exception.

 

[23jumpboy]

I’d take him and Randy Sanders back today to run offense!

40ish tuds with Andre Woodson. More impressive few turnovers…he broke a record for passes without an int during that stretch.

They didn’t have the depth/talent on D stoops does, but he doesn’t have the offense coaching, scheme, development of talent within said offense, that they did.

Combine the best of both worlds.

Those two could coach offensive circles around everyone stoops has had combined!

Probably get both of them for a song now too.

 

[ncaaky]

Problem is this isn't 2007. The last time Joker was an OC (Maryland in 2019 and 2020), they were 95th and 98th in the nation in points per game. He was great for us back then, but not sure 61 year old Joker Phillips is the answer now.

Joker was the assistant OC at Maryland. He was not in charge of the offense there.

 

[bthaunert]

Joker was the assistant OC at Maryland. He was not in charge of the offense there.

Thanks….he’s listed as the Co-Offensive Coordinator so assumed he had some part in developing that offense and belong with the play calling. Looks like I was wrong.

 

[Boz]

Who’s on drugs?

Drugs or not? This isn't going to happen. This seems like desperation and we aren't desperate.

 

[robo222]

Someone said when making a comment about a UK HC of years ago… “you gotta stand for something”…. I am afraid same applies to CMS… Maybe he stands for defense? In which case he should be a Coordinator not a HC.

 

[gamecockcat]

How far has our program fallen when we look back longingly to the Joker as OC era?

 

[Supafuzz75]

There's been 4 times in 12 years a QB has gotten at least 300 yds passing,, all by different QBs..

 

[Boz]

There's been 4 times in 12 years a QB has gotten at least 300 yds passing,, all by different QBs..

not true. Check the records.

 

[truebluewildcat]

How far has our program fallen when we look back longingly to the Joker as OC era?

Quite a bit.

Joker OC era was about 7.5 give or take wins a year. CMS averages about 6.

offensively it’s not even close. I remember Andre tossing for about 45 one year…I’m not sure stoops will sniff 45 scores total passing/rushing this year.

Also joker did all that with way less talent and depth. Didn’t have the resources, facilities, nor the million dollar recruiter extraordinaire

 

[BlueBallz]

not true. Check the records.

I just looked, Leary, Levis, Johnson and Towles all had at least one game with 300+ yards passing.

 

[UKnCincy]

Quite a bit.

Joker OC era was about 7.5 give or take wins a year. CMS averages about 6.

offensively it’s not even close. I remember Andre tossing for about 45 one year…I’m not sure stoops will sniff 45 scores total passing/rushing this year.

Also joker did all that with way less talent and depth. Didn’t have the resources, facilities, nor the million dollar recruiter extraordinaire

Here’s how many passing TDs we had during each of Joker’s 5 seasons as OC:

• 2005: 6
• 2006: 31
• 2007: 40
• 2008: 11
• 2009: 13

Notice the trend there?

The 2007 offense was the result of having a skilled, experienced QB capable of making reads and who rarely made big mistakes, and also having a loaded group of talented and experienced WR/TE (Johnson, Tamme, Burton and Lyons).

Stoops has never had an offense that comes close to the 2007 team in terms of that level of combined QB and WR/TE talent and experience.

 

[Boz]

I just looked, Leary, Levis, Johnson and Towles all had at least one game with 300+ yards passing.

add Barker, Maxwell Smith

 

[Supafuzz75]

add Barker, Maxwell Smith

So,, 6.. Not much better than 4.. Pretty much just once every 2 years.. Pretty amazing how they get any decent players at QB,, WR or TE to come here..

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Also joker did all that with way less talent

That is definitely not true. It really isnt even close. Raphael Little was better than every skill player we have combined.

 

[BlueBallz]

add Barker, Maxwell Smith

I got tired of going through the stats and seeing “well there’s a 300 yard game, there’s another, there’s another”. I’m not sure what narrative he was trying to present.

 

[Supafuzz75]

I got tired of going through the stats and seeing “well there’s a 300 yard game, there’s another, there’s another”. I’m not sure what narrative he was trying to present.

None.. I can only remember Levis doing it..

Actually its not even Levis I remember,, was Leary.. Points in the last post.. Only been 6 QBs to do it here..

 

[truebluewildcat]

Here’s how many passing TDs we had during each of Joker’s 5 seasons as OC:

• 2005: 6
• 2006: 31
• 2007: 40
• 2008: 11
• 2009: 13

Notice the trend there?

The 2007 offense was the result of having a skilled, experienced QB capable of making reads and who rarely made big mistakes, and also having a loaded group of talented and experienced WR/TE (Johnson, Tamme, Burton and Lyons).

Stoops has never had an offense that comes close to the 2007 team in terms of that level of combined QB and WR/TE talent and experience.

Talent is debatable. I’d say it’s more coaching and development as well as deciding to let it rip.

If Joker Phillips with less money, resources, no new facilities collected more talent than what we’re seeing now after 12 years, then we need to revisit what Marrow is doing and getting paid.

Stoops has had a lot better ground games, OLs, and defenses to get the O more opportunities.

I mean joker did all that basically a few years removed from a program falling into the abyss. With a TE from Danville, QB from Radcliff.

 

[Boz]

I got tired of going through the stats and seeing “well there’s a 300 yard game, there’s another, there’s another”. I’m not sure what narrative he was trying to pre

I have no real point. No getting around it in 12 years the passing game should be much more productive and generate lots more yards.

 

[UKnCincy]

Talent is debatable. I’d say it’s more coaching and development as well as deciding to let it rip.

If Joker Phillips with less money, resources, no new facilities collected more talent than what we’re seeing now after 12 years, then we need to revisit what Marrow is doing and getting paid.

Stoops has had a lot better ground games, OLs, and defenses to get the O more opportunities.

I mean joker did all that basically a few years removed from a program falling into the abyss. With a TE from Danville, QB from Radcliff.

That TE from Danville hung around the NFL for 9 years. He’s the most talented TE we’ve had. And Burton, Johnson, Woodson and Tamme were all NFL draft picks that year.

Which of Stoops’ teams has come close to the 2007 team’s level of combined talent and experience across the QB, WR and TE positions?

 

[BlueBallz]

I have no real point. No getting around it in 12 years the passing game should be much more productive and generate lots more yards.

I don’t get too hung up on passing yards, especially 300, as the marker of success. Michigan won the NC last year with only one game over 300. Mumme put up all kinds of yards and it got him so far. It has to be a balance. 200-250, with some games over, seems to show some success seems to be where a team can be and win, BUT a strong running game has to be there, and a solid defense as well. Stoops seems to have neither this year. Although he’s had some success in the past when he did, but the rails are falling off. I’m certainly not going to be dying on the hill defending him, I think it’s time to move on.

 

[BlueBallz]

That TE from Danville hung around the NFL for 9 years. He’s the most talented TE we’ve had. And Burton, Johnson, Woodson and Tamme were all NFL draft picks that year.

Which of Stoops’ teams has come close to the 2007 team’s level of combined talent and experience across the QB, WR and TE positions?

Those particular positions, all in one year? Not so much, but he’s had success in those positions going to the NFL and has by far been the most successful in getting players on the both side of the ball to the pros.

 

[truebluewildcat]

That TE from Danville hung around the NFL for 9 years. He’s the most talented TE we’ve had. And Burton, Johnson, Woodson and Tamme were all NFL draft picks that year.

Which of Stoops’ teams has come close to the 2007 team’s level of combined talent and experience across the QB, WR and TE positions?

I think the overall recruiting rankings favor Stoops era by a wide margin.

Papaw, Joker, and sanders were probably better developers, teachers, and getting more production out of overall less talented and deep teams.

I’m not saying those players weren’t great. I argue for Joker Phillips era offense, development, play calling, execution every chance I get.

Im more or less asking what are we paying stoops and specifically Marrow for if they can’t find better talent nor develop it to produce at a higher level, in an era in which UK football was in abysmal shape with less resources/money spent on everything from facilities to staff?

 

[Supafuzz75]

I have no real point. No getting around it in 12 years the passing game should be much more productive and generate lots more yards.

Me neither,, just rambling on,, lol.. Just a low number I thought..

Leary 2 games ('23),, Levis 6 games ('21-'22),, Johnson 3 games ('16),, Towles 5 games ('14-'15),, Smith 3 games ('12-'13).. So 19 total games between 5 QBs in 12 years.. I can't find a game with Barker getting 300?

 

[BlueBallz]

Me neither,, just rambling on,, lol.. Just a low number I thought..

Leary 2 games ('23),, Levis 6 games ('21-'22),, Johnson 3 games ('16),, Towles 5 games ('14-'15),, Smith 3 games ('12-'13).. So 19 total games between 5 QBs in 12 years.. I can't find a game with Barker getting 300?

Barker got 323 against Southern Miss in a loss.

 

[Supafuzz75]

Barker got 323 against Southern Miss in a loss.

I added one too many to Johnson then.. 19 games with 6 QBs then..

 

[UKnCincy]

I think the overall recruiting rankings favor Stoops era by a wide margin.

Papaw, Joker, and sanders were probably better developers, teachers, and getting more production out of overall less talented and deep teams.

I’m not saying those players weren’t great. I argue for Joker Phillips era offense, development, play calling, execution every chance I get.

Im more or less asking what are we paying stoops and specifically Marrow for if they can’t find better talent nor develop it to produce at a higher level, in an era in which UK football was in abysmal shape with less resources/money spent on everything from facilities to staff?

Specifically, which of Stoops’ offenses have come close to the 2007 team’s level of combined talent and experience across the QB, WR and TE positions?

When you look at the makeup of the various rosters we’ve had, as well as Joker’s performance after the 2007 team, it’s pretty clear that Joker benefited from a perfect storm of talent and experience.

It wasn’t Joker’s abilities as an OC that were responsible for the 2007 team’s output. It was a special collection of skill position players with lots of experience running the same system. That’ll make any OC look good.