IU/Crean get their first 2016 commit. Grant Gelon.

[HoosierfanJM]

I'm sure between 40 and 60 percent of this year's Starting Five has not been arrested while at Kentucky, or suspended for multiple failed drug tests. Too bad Indiana can't say the same. What is Crean running there, a circus with him as the head Clown? Dakich is right: "Indiana Basketball Stands For Nothing."

So there. Yogi Ferrell used a fake id at a bar two weeks before his 21st birthday, and was NOT dismissed from the program.
It wasn't publicized, but I believe you're right; Troy Williams tested for weed once, and was NOT dismissed from the program.

When you describe THAT as "40 and 60 percent of this year's (IU) Starting Five has ... been arrested ... or suspended for multiple failed drug tests" you lose credibility.

 

[Jkwo]

Wasn't trying to offer that article as conclusory evidence; only a quick taste of the environment. Said it was my firmly held opinion that many three and four year players learn to play for the university as a primary motivation, and that OADs overwhelmingly play for the coach.

I don't disagree with this in any major way - the issue is the faulty implication that the latter precludes loyalty to the school, school pride, likeliness to visit after leaving, etc, and it's based on absolutely nothing.

If you have a bunch of young NBAers who bust out their school gear in March and put their pictures on instagram, homerifically put UK through to the end on every bracket regardless of our seed, trash talk and make huge game bets with their NBA teammates, go out of their way to spend free time on the road with other UK players in the league, including those not from their team, come back every single summer to practice with the new team and to host summer camps for kids for cheap, most of which aren't affiliated with Cal in any way, what exactly is your point based on? That they didn't risk their future earnings as first round picks to play for free?

Sure, it would be nice to see them play longer, but it's a business decision for them.
Of course elite players come for the coach - it's impossible to deny that - because they're treating it like an investment in their future, because if they play their cards right, they'll be set for generations some day.

But you came in way over your head when you started acting like our guys just stop giving a damn after they leave. It sounds like wishful thinking, because it's sure not based on what we've witnessed so far. Some don't care much, just like some decorated 4 year players don't. We never see Daniel Orton around, but neither do we ever hear from Pat Riley. But whether you're comfortable with it or not, the percentage of those who show UK pride is not substantially different from OADs to normal players.

 

[WACB]

NCAA Tournament Wins in the last six seasons:

indiana = 4

Kentucky = 22

 

[HoosierfanJM]

I don't disagree with this in any major way - the issue is the faulty implication that the latter precludes loyalty to the school, school pride, likeliness to visit after leaving, etc, and it's based on absolutely nothing.

If you have a bunch of young NBAers who bust out their school gear in March and put their pictures on instagram, homerifically put UK through to the end on every bracket regardless of our seed, trash talk and make huge game bets with their NBA teammates, go out of their way to spend free time on the road with other UK players in the league, including those not from their team, come back every single summer to practice with the new team and to host summer camps for kids for cheap, most of which aren't affiliated with Cal in any way, what exactly is your point based on? That they didn't risk their future earnings as first round picks to play for free?

Sure, it would be nice to see them play longer, but it's a business decision for them.
Of course elite players come for the coach - it's impossible to deny that - because they're treating it like an investment in their future, because if they play their cards right, they'll be set for generations some day.

But you came in way over your head when you started acting like our guys just stop giving a damn after they leave. It sounds like wishful thinking, because it's sure not based on what we've witnessed so far. Some don't care much, just like some decorated 4 year players don't. We never see Daniel Orton around, but neither do we ever hear from Pat Riley. But whether you're comfortable with it or not, the percentage of those who show UK pride is not substantially different from OADs to normal players.

I think you've just put forward the strongest pro-OAD take yet, but I wonder if Cal left UK for a different college team (I know; that hasn't and isn't likely to happen), if those players would come back to UK or to wherever Cal was coaching. Maybe it's a knock on Crean, but if Crean left IU, I'm pretty sure Zeller, Hulls, Oladipo, etc would be coming back to Bloomington, not just to where Crean was like Wade does. I know that is true for five decades of IU players.

BTW; Pat Riley never comes around Lexington?

That sucks...he should!

 

[HoosierfanJM]

You are the one low-balling Indiana's off-court problems. Anybody interested can dig up the accounts of the misadventures of Indiana basketball players -- this in the era of cleaning up after the NCAA sanctions and probation.

Kentucky has had a clean basketball program with remarkably few problems for decades -- since roughly the moment in the distant past around 1987 when Indiana was last relevant on the court.

Forget the Grand Canyon-like gulf in success on the court between the two programs. Indiana has failed miserably off the court, as even stalwarts like Dan Dakich notes in that essay you keep ignoring about how "Indiana Basketball Stands For Nothing." Beginning with your coach who was fired for physically abusing players and verbally assaulting students, you've had an unbroken run of mediocrity, scandal and failure.

That's okay with us. We enjoy it. But keep your moralizing about how a program should be run to those doing it worse than Indiana -- if you can find anybody.

So, are you sticking with "40 and 60 percent of this year's (IU) Starting Five has ... been arrested ... or suspended for multiple failed drug tests"?

 

[BigKari]

Ummm...kicking kids off the team when they get caught doing bad things repeatedly is a GOOD idea.

Are you sure that Cal era UK players have not smoked weed? If they have and got caught, they weren't kicked off the team for it. No one was kicked off the team when Davis was tied up naked and spanked in the UK locker room. No one was even punished as far as I can tell.

See JM this is why I don't tolerate you. You come on a UK board and post this kind of bullcrap. No one was punished, because no one did anything wrong. The camera is not meant to see some of the hijinks that kids get up to in a locker room, I know it's seems abnormal for a non athlete like yourself, but it's not. It's goofy as hell for sure, sometimes the towel smacking and locker room horseplay made me a little uncomfortable back in the high school football days, but that stuff goes on everywhere. Did you notice the smile on his face, did you notice Davis was laughing? This is you being a douchebag, you can act like a little pusillanimous 6th grade candy ass panty waste all you want on this board, but don't be a little bitch when I call you out on it.

Also, guess what JM, it was pretty well known around campus that Wille Cauley-Stein was a drug user, psychedelics along with the bud. You know what though, that's also not abnormal for a college student and he was pretty responsible about it because he never got caught, by the NCAA or his coaches. He didn't flaunt it, it wasn't a distraction to the team, it didn't disrupt his academics, it was something he enjoyed on his own time. Darnell Dodson was dismissed from the team because he couldn't leave the bud alone, the difference is that Dodson was a distraction, he was a negative influence, he didn't keep that part of his life to himself. John Wall purportedly indulged while at UK. We are not saying that our players are perfect, but they are at least trained to be low key about their transgressions, since they are under such a microscope. I know you will perceive that as Coach Cal covering for his players, but you couldn't be more wrong, he holds these young men accountable for their actions.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

I'm sticking with Indiana has been a shoddy basketball program on and off the court for 30 years. And yes, if anything I understated the shambles of Indiana basketball:

Yogi Ferrell was arrested. Troy Williams was suspended for failed drug tests and according to ESPN and other sources that was plural -- tests. Hanner Mosquera-Perea, who was in line to start, was finally kicked off the team after being arrested AND separately suspended for drug use. Devin Davis, who I suppose was in the mix of potential starters when all his problems began was cited for drug use and kicked off the team. Of course that came AFTER Davis was run over by Emmit Holt in some bizarre episode, for which Holt was cited. Stanford Robinson was arrested twice by my count (it gets confusing) before he was forced off the team. I'm sure I missed a few arrests and suspensions. It'd be a full time job to chart them all.

Rumor has it that Tim Priller is an ISIS operative?
Rob Johnson is rob-bing banks?
If Thomas Bryant doesn't stay at IU, he's considering getting a mail order degree from UNC?

Oh, the humanity!

 

[HoosierfanJM]

See JM this is why I don't tolerate you. You come on a UK board and post this kind of bullcrap. No one was punished, because no one did anything wrong. The camera is not meant to see some of the hijinks that kids get up to in a locker room, I know it's seems abnormal for a non athlete like yourself, but it's not. It's goofy as hell for sure, sometimes the towel smacking and locker room horseplay made me a little uncomfortable back in the high school football days, but that stuff goes on everywhere. Did you notice the smile on his face, did you notice Davis was laughing? This is you being a douchebag, you can act like a little pusillanimous 6th grade candy ass panty waste all you want on this board, but don't be a little bitch when I call you out on it.

Also, guess what JM, it was pretty well known around campus that Wille Cauley-Stein was a drug user, psychedelics along with the bud. You know what though, that's also not abnormal for a college student and he was pretty responsible about it because he never got caught, by the NCAA or his coaches. He didn't flaunt it, it wasn't a distraction to the team, it didn't disrupt his academics, it was something he enjoyed on his own time. Darnell Dodson was dismissed from the team because he couldn't leave the bud alone, the difference is that Dodson was a distraction, he was a negative influence, he didn't keep that part of his life to himself. John Wall purportedly indulged while at UK. We are not saying that our players are perfect, but they are at least trained to be low key about their transgressions, since they are under such a microscope. I know you will perceive that as Coach Cal covering for his players, but you couldn't be more wrong, he holds these young men accountable for their actions.

I am NOT taking exception with how UK has handled issues; these are 18-22 year old kids. Things will happen. I just think it is a bit disingenuous when IU is called on the carpet like we are some sort of bad actor for handling issues by dismissing repeat violators.

 

[Jkwo]

I think you've just put forward the strongest pro-OAD take yet, but I wonder if Cal left UK for a different college team (I know; that hasn't and isn't likely to happen), if those players would come back to UK or to wherever Cal was coaching. Maybe it's a knock on Crean, but if Crean left IU, I'm pretty sure Zeller, Hulls, Oladipo, etc would be coming back to Bloomington, not just to where Crean was like Wade does. I know that is true for five decades of IU players.

BTW; Pat Riley never comes around Lexington?

That sucks...he should!

I presume that they'll do what our two and dones, etc did after they left another slick, charismatic, wildly successful Italian coach in the 90s - they'll come back to both the coach and the school.

In fact, that's how we've gotten some weird situations like individual guys who've been both Louisville and UK assistants within a couple years of each other.

I really love the Boogie example, though, because he went balls to the wall with the UK court at his house in Sacramento when he could've easily built a Kings themed court - called it "Kings court" or something - would've been similarly cool, but he chose not to.

And no, Pat visits like every other decade, sadly, and mentions UK about that often - in fact, it was kind of a big deal on UK boards when he brought up UK during this last draft. Some reporter was going on about Duke, asking if there was just something special about getting a "Duke guy" in the draft (Heat took Winslow at 10), and he said “I’m a Kentucky Wildcat, first of all.. same qualities, probably."

That's in contrast to, for example, Dan Issel, who also went on to great success in the NBA in various capacities, and became associated primarily by many people in the country as a Denver guy, but who showers praise on UK regularly.

 

[.S&C.]

Link?

Well actually the part about Rose is true. It's even rumored here in Memphis that he routinely helps cal recruit. We've actually seen this before with him so I believe it. Rose is most surely a Cal guy and even Memphis fans know it.

Lots of one and dones are coach guys. No use in denying that. But tell cousins and wall they aren't UK guys. Tell them they won't return to UK is Cal is gone. Complete bullshit. Depends on the player.

 

[.S&C.]

I presume that they'll do what our two and dones, etc did after they left another slick, charismatic, wildly successful Italian coach in the 90s - they'll come back to both the coach and the school.

In fact, that's how we've gotten some weird situations like individual guys who've been both Louisville and UK assistants within a couple years of each other.

I really love the Boogie example, though, because he went balls to the wall with the UK court at his house in Sacramento when he could've easily built a Kings themed court - called it "Kings court" or something - would've been similarly cool, but he chose not to.

And no, Pat visits like every other decade, sadly, and mentions UK about that often - in fact, it was kind of a big deal on UK boards when he brought up UK during this last draft. Some reporter was going on about Duke, asking if there was just something special about getting a "Duke guy" in the draft (Heat took Winslow at 10), and he said “I’m a Kentucky Wildcat, first of all.. same qualities, probably."

That's in contrast to, for example, Dan Issel, who also went on to great success in the NBA in various capacities, and became associated primarily by many people in the country as a Denver guy, but who showers praise on UK regularly.

True. But Riley has praised UK a ton through the years. He even strongly considered the job in the 80's. He's a business man and business men are a different breed. I think he's been overly bashed by our fans for things they should understand but don't.

Good comment on the two and dones. We've had lots of players leave after a year or 2 for decades. They've ways been cats regardless of coach.

Kansas and Indiana fans will never understand the family atmosphere and importance of calling yourself a wildcat in this state.

 

[Jkwo]

Well actually the part about Rose is true. It's even rumored here in Memphis that he routinely helps cal recruit. We've actually seen this before with him so I believe it. Rose is most surely a Cal guy and even Memphis fans know it.

Lots of one and dones are coach guys. No use in denying that. But tell cousins and wall they aren't UK guys. Tell them they won't return to UK is Cal is gone. Complete bullshit. Depends on the player.

Right. This was my point.

 

[.S&C.]

Hell that goes for 4 year guys as well. One and dones get the worst treatment in this category simply because they had to cut their career short be use they have the talent.

Indiana fans are pure haters. Nothing less.

 

[Jkwo]

True. But Riley has praised UK a ton through the years. He even strongly considered the job in the 80's. He's a business man and business men are a different breed. I think he's been overly bashed by our fans for things they should understand but don't.

Good comment on the two and dones. We've had lots of players leave after a year or 2 for decades. They've ways been cats regardless of coach.

Kansas and Indiana fans will never understand the family atmosphere and importance of calling yourself a wildcat in this state.

Yeah, I have no animosity towards Pat - he was just a good example of an old era player who was about iconic as could be who is way more associated with the NBA than UK now and doesn't come back to campus.

But hey, he's taking care of his business and has done incredibly well for himself, and like our current players, he doesn't owe me anything. Don't begrudge him one bit.

 

[ShadowFromHomewardBound]

My car is yellow

 

[UKrazycat2]

My car is yellow

Does the meter still work??

 

[ShadowFromHomewardBound]

Does the meter still work??

It's sporadic.

 

[WhiteCityCat1]

Cal and UK need to keep pace.

Here is his profile.

https://rivals.yahoo.com/kentucky/basketball/recruiting/player-Grant-Gelon-184275

Keep Pace ? Seriously ? With Crean ? Seriously ?

 

[CatEye2010]

Keep Pace ? Seriously ? With Crean ? Seriously ?

Sarcasm. Seriously.

 

[BigKari]

Sarcasm. Seriously.

Right...if you don't get that it was sarcasm, you're one of those people that will just never understand sarcasm.

 

[BigKari]

Candy + van = commit.

I just really noticed Crean's look in this photo. Not looking at the camera, creepy smirk, his mind is somewhere else, fingers creeping down into the back of the recruits waistband, "I've been thinking about you a lot Grant. A whole lot."

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Y'all think this kid won't make it at IU, but I bet he plays more games and scores more points as a Hoosier than Jamal Murray does for UK! (that oughta get the convo going).

 

[hotelblue]

i wouldn't bet against it. clappy is a genius at feeling his players.

 

[kentucky_wildcat_#1]

Why would you think this kid will play more games, never mind score more points than Murray? This kid is a low level talent that even you know will most likely get Creaned after his freshman season. Murray will no doubt be a one and done here at Kentucky. What this IU fan doesnt seem to understand is the fact that their elite level talents do more for our program in one year than your not even rated top 400 kids do in four years. Your newest recruit won't even last 2 years. If he plays any for IU in the next year or two, you guys are even more screwed than you already are while Crean is your head coach. To think our one and dones don't care about our school is just dumb. Watch how much our elite NBA players talk about Kentucky and always picking and placing money on UK to go far in the tourney every NCAA tourney. From what I can see, I feel these kids care just as much and promote our school better than the guys we have had to stay 3 or all 4 years. If you would never want a Anothony Davis pimping your school cause of only being there one year, you're really missing out. Guys like Wall, Cousins, Davis, Bledsoe, Jones are always coming back to school to help out. These guys are making millions and still make time to come back and give back. Cousins talks postive about UK any chance he gets and adores our fanbase more than any he has ever had cheering for him in his entire career. Even over his current fanbase that is paying him millions of dollars to play for. We Kentucky fans love our one and dones and they show the love back. You guys can keep on sucking and recruiting the way you are. When this kid gets Creaned next recruiting season, be sure to stop by and tell us we were right.

 

[Orange Soda King]

He's trolling at this point, guys.. Lol

 

[ArmyWildcat81]

Y'all think this kid won't make it at IU, but I bet he plays more games and scores more points as a Hoosier than Jamal Murray does for UK! (that oughta get the convo going).

Hahahahaha. He is a future Creaning Class member.

Ill take Murray for one season, over that kid for 5 years.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

He's trolling at this point, guys.. Lol

Sorry. A little bit true. FWIW, Gelon is also quite likely to have more points in his career than April or Priller!

 

[Clive Gollings]

Y'all think this kid won't make it at IU, but I bet he plays more games and scores more points as a Hoosier than Jamal Murray does for UK! (that oughta get the convo going).

I remember the time we used to defend our recruits.

Do you think Crean gets who he wants and then builds a team?

 

[HoosierfanJM]

I remember the time we used to defend our recruits.

Do you think Crean gets who he wants and then builds a team?

No team gets all of the recruits that they want. Some do better than others. IU has gotten a McDonald's All American 5 years in a row. The primary problem is sustained on court results, not recruiting.

 

[Clive Gollings]

No team gets all of the recruits that they want. Some do better than others. IU has gotten a McDonald's All American 5 years in a row. The primary problem is sustained on court results, not recruiting.

Sorry about that. *rub on the head*.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Sorry about that. *rub on the head*.

Apology accepted. (no rub on the head)

 

[Clive Gollings]

Too late squirt, I've already rubbed your head and gave you a little kick in the behind.

It's the price you pay when selling your team to a superior fan base.

 

[*CatinIL*]

Damn, another HOT recruit for Indiana Basketball. Every time I think Coach Crean is in over his head at IU he pulls out another recruiting miracle! There's a storm brewing in Bloomington...and it's called HOOSIER BASKETBALL!

 

[Da_Bull]

Considering the lack of shooters in the 2016 class, the fact that we're losing Yogi, Zeisloft, possibly JBJ, Crean had to bring in a deep threat. At 6'5 and a quick release, I'm not talking 15sec Rick quick, he'll be a good 4 year recruit. Needs strength, quickness, and defensive improvement but to bring in a 45% 3pt shooter with what we are losing, he fills a need. With it likely being a 6 person class, he has a few scholarships to go around.

 

[Smashcat]

Will Clappy keep one in state?
Chip Miller ‏@BLUEChip_Miller 29m29 minutes ago Sherwood, AR
The current 247Sports CrystalBall for Eron Gordon has Indiana as the decisive favorite with 92% of the total votes.

 

[Da_Bull]

Will Clappy keep one in state?
Chip Miller ‏@BLUEChip_Miller 29m29 minutes ago Sherwood, AR
The current 247Sports CrystalBall for Eron Gordon has Indiana as the decisive favorite with 92% of the total votes.

Butler or LSU.

 

[UKrazycat2]

Y'all think this kid won't make it at IU, but I bet he plays more games and scores more points as a Hoosier than Jamal Murray does for UK! (that oughta get the convo going).

Here's what I think.

Passed away 30 years ago. IU................sux.

 

[Mike-D]

Y'all think this kid won't make it at IU, but I bet he plays more games and scores more points as a Hoosier than Jamal Murray does for UK! (that oughta get the convo going).

No team gets all of the recruits that they want. Some do better than others. IU has gotten a McDonald's All American 5 years in a row. The primary problem is sustained on court results, not recruiting.

That doesn't even make sense. Wouldn't recruiting fix court results, or are you telling us that Clappy recruits fine, but he just sucks at coaching? It has to be one or the other.

 

[Da_Bull]

That doesn't even make sense. Wouldn't recruiting fix court results, or are you telling us that Clappy recruits fine, but he just sucks at coaching? It has to be one or the other.

You serious clark?

 

[Mike-D]

You serious clark?