If this kid is smart he'll live out of a suitcase while at I.U. Borrowed time buddy, borrowed time.
IU/Crean get their first 2016 commit. Grant Gelon.
- Thread starter Robcatt24
- Start date
Typical Indiana nonsense. You pretend like creating means players are transferring on their own accord. Wrong – Creanhas over recruited every year he's been there and decided to cut players like it's a high school try out. The fact that you even try to defend this is laughable and not worth anyone's time to even comment
OK so Zeller, Etherington, and Marlin got degrees out of all the guys I asked about, still not looking good for your argument. So tell me, out of Hulls, Watford, Sheehey, Pritchard, Elston, Roth, Moore and Creek, how many minutes have they played in the NBA combined?
What you aren't getting about the argument is that our players leave to go make millions of dollars, your players get cut to make room for scholarships, there couldn't be a bigger difference. If we had players that didn't go pro and also not get degrees then you could talk. I'm pretty sure I can compile a list of non pro graduates from UK just like you did with the IU grads. So lets see... Malone, Long, Lanter, Hood, Polson, and Beckham for starters. Then you can add Harrellson, Miller and Poythress to that list as players with a degree that have played or will play in the NBA. Oh and I somehow forgot, Patrick Patterson.
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Hulls, Sheehey, et al were never going to be NBA level talents. Some of them were quite good as college players.
As for the poster who asked about Grant Gelon? Glad you asked!. He's a reasonable get as part of a six man class; he is the catch and shoot local kid. If we get a few from Bruce Brown, Curtis Jones, Deron Davis, etc he'll be a nice addition. If we don't? Uh-oh.
Gelon was previously unknown but had an excellent summer in high level AAU; 12+ppg and 49% from 3pt range as Kyle Guy's running mate. Was starting to get attention from numerous B1G schools. He's about 6'5", and his defense will have to improve to become a viable 20+mpg player. He's an Indiana kid who has always dreamed of playing for IU. I'm rooting for him, and I'll feel really good about adding him to a class that also includes one or two players who are ready to play real minutes as freshmen or sophomores.
Cheers
Wow that was basically a checklist of all the characteristics it takes to get Creaned. Bottom of the class player, low ceiling, dreamed of playing for IU as a kid, and needs to develop defensively to justify playing time. There has been a revolving door of this type of player since Crean has arrived.
Cool story Bro. I'm so glad you're the ones stuck with Crean, LOL.
Now would be a great time to post the spreadsheet someone ( and they did a great job ) with all the players from the past 4-5 years which included if they either ended up in the NBA ( UK Players and 2 IU ), who graduated, and who got Creaned, or transfered as some IU fans call it. It was Griffin hilarious seem all the players who got Creaned, or " transfered ". If creaning was not a problem, then look up Creaned in wickapedia and get back to me LOL!
Oh yeah, great post Kari, you later it out, it's still funny seeing it later out like the one guy did.
Oh yeah, great post Kari, you later it out, it's still funny seeing it later out like the one guy did.
Pathetic, you are hanging your hat on the argument that we graduate more players shows how mediocre IU is, this is like convincing someone to go out with an ugly person because they have a good personality. Fact is IU is recruiting division 2 players, and when they actually get division 1 recruits, Crean convinces his division 2 recruits to transfer. Crean is a consistent 10 loss coach, that pulls off a good season every once in a while, just look up his Marquette resume.
Good lord people lay the hell off.
You go Hoosier"academicadvisor"jim. Explain away all those transfer. Explain away the humiliation. We both know how awesome the cream dream is. Here's to a long and wonderful partnership between rivals fans and IU. We all agree on something finally.
You go Hoosier"academicadvisor"jim. Explain away all those transfer. Explain away the humiliation. We both know how awesome the cream dream is. Here's to a long and wonderful partnership between rivals fans and IU. We all agree on something finally.
BOOM.
Bottom line: what Indiana does to so many of these kids who get Creaned is far more destructive to far more people than Cal sending kids to the NBA (everyone else graduates).
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
1, 0...
Bet he's got a better chance at an IU degree than any '16 UK recruit has at a UK degree.
Gotcha covered, Md!
You put on a good front, I know you act like this doesn't bother you but I know it does. Real talk, no bashing... Your team has been relatively irrelevant for 25 years sans a good run to the title game over a decade ago.
Look at your recruits... Your new commitment. Priller?? Really?? Lol
I know IU fans love basketball and it eats away at you that the last 2 decades have been bad and the future looks grim. It sucks huh?
Yeah this dude is terrible and he's mad that IU has sucked for the last 25 years and there is no end in sight....
But why lie? You were NOT on the floor laughing. Seriously it makes you look weird to lie like that.
How many championships does Wisconsin have? @HoosierfanJM They had a good two year run with some good players. What will happen to them this year? Probably nothing. What will happen to us this year? Probably another final four.
But I understand Indiana fans seeking mediocrity
But I understand Indiana fans seeking mediocrity
You guys are all missing the very fundamental, basic problem that many COLLEGE basketball fans have with the whole OAD model. It is allowed, but it is not what many college basketball fans have in mind, no matter how much winning a team does on the court.
You keep taking your 4 year player's with the occasional Sweet-16 every 10 years, and we'll recruit talent and enjoy a Final-4 run every season. And then when you're laying down at night you'll sleep better knowing that although your program sucks, Crean did it the "right" way. Minus the Spring Creanings of course. I must say, it must really suck to live on fantasy island.
Yes! That is an excellent point. I guess the pressure to win at all costs necessitates taking (or desperately trying to get) the occasional OAD. Look what happened to Duke last year, the need to compete with the OAD teams has brought Coach K squarely into the OAD dominant era. I guess the occasional OAD like Vonleh or Maker is better for me than a team full of them, but in my opinion college basketball needs to be completely refocused.
IMO?
Student athletes that play for the university, not solely the coach or the pro contract.
Then maybe the Dean should go recruit these players instead of the head basketball coach? How many of these kids come to college with a dream of having a degree from Kentucky or Indiana? These kids want to play ball in the NBA and make millions of dollars playing a game they love and to take care of their families. Lets be real. We are fans of the schools, the players rarely are.
I can't believe you are still here JM. You're a glutton for punishment, you really bring it upon yourself. This is a very stupid take, you are just clearly lying to yourself, that's not a good thing to do man. The colleges have nothing to do with the OAD "model", the NCAA has zero say in the matter, I don't understand how you don't know this. There are essentially 4 teams (KU, Duke, UK, Arizona) that get 12 out of the top 25 players each year. You very rarely see a one and done that wasn't ranked as a top 25 five star. That means that almost half of the elite recruits every year are split up between the rest of the schools. Schools like IU, Michigan, UCLA, Ohio State, and Texas are programs that are in regular contention for 5 star players, but don't sign at least one every year like the 4 schools mentioned above. Those are the second tier recruiting schools who are ALWAYS after the same prospects as the top tier recruiting programs. So that's why I say you are lying to yourself. The top tier is so dominant in recruiting that there just isn't enough left over to guarantee that a school like IU will get a top 25 guy, but they are always at least involved with a handful of them. Now say in 2 years Coach K is gone, Crean is gone at IU and someone legitimate gets hired to resurrect IU and supplants Duke in that top tier and you're getting 2-3 top recruits every season, with 1-2 OADs, not only will IU have better teams, but you will be giddy seeing all the talent come through. Fact is, you're jealous and you are not at all good at hiding it.
True far more often these days, but I firmly believe that Mashburn, Chapman, Macy, Issel, Givens, Pelphrey, Anderson, Delk, etc. etc. are far more tied into the university than the coach. Same goes for Zeller, Hulls, Watford, etc.
Derrick Rose is not going to back to bond with Memphis; he's a Coach Cal guy. Okafor is a K guy more than a Dukie. Kaminsky will be visiting Madison whether Bo is retired or not.
Coach Cal is doing what we are paying him to do. Win games the right way, without cheating. When Bobby Knight was choking players and throwing chairs at people did you not think that wasn't the right way? You didn't care because he won games.
It is a lot easier to interact here if one chooses to ignore responses to statements purportedly by me that I have never made. For instance, you seem to think I said that the colleges HAVE something to do wth the OAD model. Never said that. In fact I just said it's squarely within the four corners of the "allowed" page. I realize that it's primarily an NBA rule, with the tacit approval of the NCAA.
I also choose to ignore the gratuitous insults. I attribute that to messgae board nastiness. In my mind, that DOES NOT represent the vast majority of UK's (or any team's) fanbase.
ThroughBlue made a very solid point; much respect to him for doing so. Also, I think you have pretty accurately laid out the college basketball landscape with four or five teams grabbing most of the OADs. However, IU seems to only try for one or two a year (this coming year it's Maker and Alkins).
To answer your last point; if a high-end guy like Stevens came to IU, I'd be thrilled. If he then proceeded to build teams dominated by players who only played 750 total career minutes in candystripes?
I'd be very, very disappointed.
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
Not stating that as a scientific fact. My opinion.
However, if you want a link that describes the lack of attachment OAD's have to a university?
Try this:
http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83215234/
Ummm...kicking kids off the team when they get caught doing bad things repeatedly is a GOOD idea.
Are you sure that Cal era UK players have not smoked weed? If they have and got caught, they weren't kicked off the team for it. No one was kicked off the team when Davis was tied up naked and spanked in the UK locker room. No one was even punished as far as I can tell.
If watching your kids graduate is more exciting than seeing your team be successful, more power to you. Everyone has there own reasons for watching a sport. I just happen to think yours is lame.
First of all, that's a high school kid talking, which has nothing at all to do with whether or not the student who goes to campus for his freshman year develops an attachment or not - which is what your contention centered around.
Not one person here claimed that they came out of high school knowing the fight song. Again, your contention was about whether they get attached in their time here - Frank will be back on Wisconsin campus, etc.
And furthermore, the case is made even weaker when you realize that you're really criticizing, above everything, an 11 year old child's perception of chronological events. And trying to tie misunderstandings derived therefrom to whether or not a college kid gets attached to his surroundings.
It's a really, criminally bad argument.
He said that he was impressed by what Cal did with Tyreke Evans at Memphis and Derrick Rose at Kentucky.
The problem? Derrick Rose played the year before Tyreke.
Does this bizarre interpretation of the events demonstrate that current Isaiah has no respect for the space time continuum (like he disregards UK basketball)?
Or is it more likely that little nose-picking, cooties-avoiding Isaiah was only half paying attention during those years, didn't remember exactly when in his pre-pubescence Cal arrived at the new school, or even in what order those early seasons occurred - i.e. his 10 year old memory was just unreliable as a whole - meaning interpreting his foggy details as "he will never get attached to a school" is a big, unwarranted leap taken by someone with confirmation bias?
I could sit here and hit you with more of the stuff that Wall, Bledsoe, Boogie, MKG, Davis, Nerlens, etc have posted/done since they left, but you didn't even comment on my last thing, and there is a (distant) limit to how much time I'm willing to dig around for an internet debate. I understand - you have your narrative and you're comfortable with it.
If it makes you feel better to think that our guys don't care about UK after they leave, that's fine. I'm inclined to believe you wouldn't spend any energy on that point if IU were doing well, but that's JMO.
Keeping pumping out the unsubstantiated and assertions about who cares and who doesn't without having any insider knowledge - that's fine. It's a message board.
But don't bring garbage arguments like the one above.
Wasn't trying to offer that article as conclusory evidence; only a quick taste of the environment. Said it was my firmly held opinion that many three and four year players learn to play for the university as a primary motivation, and that OADs overwhelmingly play for the coach.
