Is Pope the best x and o's coach we have had?
- Thread starter uk78
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Tubby had a winning record ever place he coached except his last stop at High Point,he did win before here and after.
Tubby coached 6 seasons before he took the UK gig and was only 46. During that 6 year time period he made it to three Sweet Sixteens in lowly Tulsa and Georgia. The guy was trending in the right direction.
Ball Line Defense! To quote Tubby " I learned it from JD Barnett at Virginia Commonwealth University" It was designed to stop penetration to the basket and was very affective, but.. It opened up the perimeter which was Tubby's achilles heel. In the age of modern basketball, ball line defense is obsolete. Respectfully.
I thought Tubby did a really good job at UK and he's a true class act, just a different time and a much changed sport.
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That is a good question. The first three, UK came back to win and those teams had some great coaches/talent in their own right. I think USC just got hot at the right time. Marquette was the unfortunate injury to Bogans. Kansas did have more talent, I'll admit that. Michigan State that year was one of the best teams in the nation, which UK came back to nearly pull that one off too.
Tubby's body of work was good before and after. He was at programs that didn't have much history and he did elevate them. For a long while Tulsa was one of the premier mid majors after Tubby built them up. Georgia was a 3 seed in 97, which they fell to Chattanooga that year in the tournament. He also did well at Minnesota and Texas Tech. Won the first NCAA Tournament game at Minnesota for the first time in 16 years or so, and got Texas Tech back in the tournament and left them in great hands. Memphis was foolish for firing him.
Tubby was the best on the fly-in game adjustments coach, it's how he won the '98 NC.
Tubby has taken 5 teams to the NCAAT. Only three other coaches have done so (Steve Alford, Lon Kruger and of course Ricky P).
The man could coach. Game just go the point it passed him by for the most part. Doesn't mean he was never good.
Same thing has happened to Cal. Cal will probably have FOUR schools he took to the NCAAT unless he hangs it up before he gets Arky there. And we all know how bad Cal has been lately. But he took 3 schools to the FF.
It's just a lot of coaches just refuse to adjust their styles and it costs them.
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For the most part, ball line is dead. But it comes in handy when you face a team that's not a great perimeter shooting team. It's a neat tool to keep around to mix it up.
That Marquette team was pretty damn good too. And what a weird tournament. ALL the one seeds made the E8. ONE of them made the FF.
And guess where we'd be with Cal? I don't think we can truly answer this until sometime next sesaon
Yeah 98 you just chalked it up to the personality of that team and the quality of opponent. But the Jeff Boschee Kansas team? USC? UAB? Marquette? Those last three got smoked in their next game. As did Michigan State in 05.
For whatever reason we never seemed to be ready at the start of all those games. We came roaring back in all of them, but used up all our energy in doing so and petered out at the end.
No. In fact I’ve been a bit disappointed with his x/o’s given what was said about him being basically a basketball savant.
I’d say the best is Pitino, possibly Tubby.
The worst is a fight between Cal and Billy. I’d lean towards Billy being better though.
I’d say the best is Pitino, possibly Tubby.
The worst is a fight between Cal and Billy. I’d lean towards Billy being better though.
Joe B's teams were as good on day 1 of the season as they were on the last day of the season
If the NCAAT had been played in December he would have won 4 or 5 championships. His game
planning was good as long as things went like he thought they would. In game adjustments
were not his strong suit. Sitting the starting 5 at the beginning of the 2nd half of the game
vs Michigan St (and Magic) was his greatest move ever.
Sutton also took 5 schools back when everyone didn't get in. But that's a nonsense argument anyway.
Tubby never sniffed an E8 before UK nor even a S16 after UK. He never built even one program. His best year at every school he's ever coached was his first year with the previous coaches players. At Tulsa he followed Nolan. At UGA he followed Hugh Durham, here he was handed a title ready team that had already been to previous FF's. At Minn he followed Monson and so on. He never had a winning record in any conference after leaving UK until his last season at Memphis. in which he was 1 game over 500. And got fired.
He is a world class grifter. But he is not a basketball coach.
The two teams that lost to Michigan State in the Elite Eight were certainly good enough to make the Final Four, as was the team that lost to Marquette. It takes some luck, and Tubby kind of used up all his luck in Year 1. The "Flintstones" were better than UK, but that game in Austin against MSU with the Sparks shot was tough. We just couldn't get that one rebound to close it out. I don't even want to rehash the Marquette DWade game.
The thing about Tubby's X's and O's is that we had a really high percentage of scoring out of time outs, at least it seemed to me that we did. Pope is good at that too.
Let me clarify that preparation IS a part of “Xs and Os”. Scouting opponents and coming up the the right game plan definitely, and Pitino is/was a master of that. At least at Kentucky he was not as good at in game adjustments as he was at pre-game planning, certainly not the equal of Tubby or Pope.
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Pitino has adapted to the game as well. Not many have done what he has in that area. He was one of the first to realize the benefit of "bombing" threes. He also understood that over time, players have gotten to be better ball handlers. Now he doesn't press as much as he did 30 years ago. Still has a pretty nasty defense. Just knocked UConn out of the 25.
Great discussion!
Coach Pope - I think the original poster, uk78, summed him up very well. What he did assembling an entire roster just before the season is remarkable and I think he has done well with in-game adjustments.
CCC - not an X and O guy at all - Cannot forget coming out of the huddle last year with a shout of "Go make a play!" However his Gooo and Runnn offenses are so unique as no one in any division of college basketball runs these 2 complicated offenses!!
Tubby - Obviously he was fantastic taking over the 98 team that had lost a lot of talent the year before. A trait that I will always remember is coming out of a timeout and, if we had the ball, Tubby drew up a play that most of the time led to a score.
Pitino - Successful everywhere and with any style roster. Won big at Providence with average talent, at Louisville with good talent, at UK with talent and depth with most of his teams, and now at St John's bringing them back from oblivion. Been doing this for 40 years also. A definite innovator and adjusted to the talent he had on the team. The Unforgetables were under talented in most of the games they played, but they won. The 96 and 97 teams were monsters and would have been back-to-back without the injuries to Derek Anderson. Believe Pitino was the greatest in preparing his team to play the opponent. My most vivid memory was playing Tim Duncan and Wake Forest and Pitino schemed to double him and take him out of the game. Brilliant coaching!
Sutton - Lost much of his luster because of the scandal but he was a coach that excelled with the talent he had on hand. He was a great X and O guy. I believe he would have gone down as a great at UK without his personal problems and the eventual probation from the scandal
Joe B - the 78 team against Fla State in the 1st round when he jerked several starters to begin the 2nd half to wake them up worked. Also the regional final against Magic and Michigan State at Dayton. I was in attendance and witnessed the most stressful game along with the 92 Duke game. State played that 2-3 zone and there were few openings. Joe had Mike Phillips set a pick at the foul line extended for Kyle Macy and we don't win that game without that adjustment. Then he put the ball in Macy's hands after we got ahead and Kyle was the best free throw shooter in the country that year.
Adolph - I only witnessed him at the end of his career. But he "invented" basketball at UK. Won with talented and not so talented teams. Without him, the SEC would not have become the basketball power that it is today. He demanded perfection from his teams and was not satisfied unless he got it!
Coach Pope - I think the original poster, uk78, summed him up very well. What he did assembling an entire roster just before the season is remarkable and I think he has done well with in-game adjustments.
CCC - not an X and O guy at all - Cannot forget coming out of the huddle last year with a shout of "Go make a play!" However his Gooo and Runnn offenses are so unique as no one in any division of college basketball runs these 2 complicated offenses!!
Tubby - Obviously he was fantastic taking over the 98 team that had lost a lot of talent the year before. A trait that I will always remember is coming out of a timeout and, if we had the ball, Tubby drew up a play that most of the time led to a score.
Pitino - Successful everywhere and with any style roster. Won big at Providence with average talent, at Louisville with good talent, at UK with talent and depth with most of his teams, and now at St John's bringing them back from oblivion. Been doing this for 40 years also. A definite innovator and adjusted to the talent he had on the team. The Unforgetables were under talented in most of the games they played, but they won. The 96 and 97 teams were monsters and would have been back-to-back without the injuries to Derek Anderson. Believe Pitino was the greatest in preparing his team to play the opponent. My most vivid memory was playing Tim Duncan and Wake Forest and Pitino schemed to double him and take him out of the game. Brilliant coaching!
Sutton - Lost much of his luster because of the scandal but he was a coach that excelled with the talent he had on hand. He was a great X and O guy. I believe he would have gone down as a great at UK without his personal problems and the eventual probation from the scandal
Joe B - the 78 team against Fla State in the 1st round when he jerked several starters to begin the 2nd half to wake them up worked. Also the regional final against Magic and Michigan State at Dayton. I was in attendance and witnessed the most stressful game along with the 92 Duke game. State played that 2-3 zone and there were few openings. Joe had Mike Phillips set a pick at the foul line extended for Kyle Macy and we don't win that game without that adjustment. Then he put the ball in Macy's hands after we got ahead and Kyle was the best free throw shooter in the country that year.
Adolph - I only witnessed him at the end of his career. But he "invented" basketball at UK. Won with talented and not so talented teams. Without him, the SEC would not have become the basketball power that it is today. He demanded perfection from his teams and was not satisfied unless he got it!
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You hit the nail on the head regarding scoring out of timeouts with Tubby. I always was happy when we called a time out with the ball.
Basically agree as far as Tubby’s coaching goes although I think he was fine man. Nolan Richardson succeeded Eddie Sutton at Arkansas. I forget who Tubby followed at Tulsa but it wasn’t Nolan.
Pope definitely is the coach that talks the most about tactics, using the new language for same old tactics like , zoom action, etc so that makes him look cool. Is that making him the best ever at Kentucky outside Rupp at tactics? I would say let not rush to judgment.
The game of basketball has evolved. We had 4 other coaches that won a title at Kentucky besides Rupp. Each of them looked pretty good when they come on board. Each of them brought something new., which looked great for the period they coached in.
Pope has the potential and he clearly demonstrated in few games that knows how to prepare a game and even make games adjustments. There were couple games where things clearly didn’t work out from coaching side. He is smart guy, extra positive and good communicator which goes well with current generation mentality, but let’s wait for him to bring number 9 to be at the same level with the other 4 coaches.
And if he wins number ten to say it’s better than the other 4.
And if he wins 4 titles or more then yes we can even bring Rupp into discussion, though he is my favorite.
The game of basketball has evolved. We had 4 other coaches that won a title at Kentucky besides Rupp. Each of them looked pretty good when they come on board. Each of them brought something new., which looked great for the period they coached in.
Pope has the potential and he clearly demonstrated in few games that knows how to prepare a game and even make games adjustments. There were couple games where things clearly didn’t work out from coaching side. He is smart guy, extra positive and good communicator which goes well with current generation mentality, but let’s wait for him to bring number 9 to be at the same level with the other 4 coaches.
And if he wins number ten to say it’s better than the other 4.
And if he wins 4 titles or more then yes we can even bring Rupp into discussion, though he is my favorite.
The hate some people have for Tubby Smith is just unbelievable. Back in the day while Smith was here, I took on the role here in defending Smith against all the untrue factual statements posted in the Rafters. It was a full time job then and has never really died out.
“ His best year at every school he's ever coached was his first year with the previous coaches players. At Tulsa he followed Nolan.”
Two falsehoods. Smith followed JD Barnett, not Nolan Richardson, and Tubby’s first two years - with “the previous coaches players” - were his worst at Tulsa with a records of 17-13 and 15-14, both seasons finishing 4th in the MVC. His next two years, with his own players, teams he built, he went 23-8 and 24-8, winning the MVC both seasons as well as MVC Coach of the Year honors.
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Sutton doesn’t get enough credit especially in late game situations but Pitino was the absolute best and still is.
Bcg may have been better X’s and O’s. Let’s wait and see bc there is alot to be considered positive and negative results. Popes defensive X’s and O’s is pretty sorry. The best game coach x and o guy was tubby by far pitino second idk where pope ranks. He’s gotta win in the tourney to get consideration that’s when you will really know. Can he run his plays under pressure? So far no he can’t win 🥇 n March but now he has what was the best program and a top tier team. Can he coach the team to a win they shouldn’t?
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