Is 2015 the year we find out....

[UKWinsAgainYep]

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:

Originally posted by UKWinsAgainYep:

Originally posted by STEVE!:
Stoops and his staff will have to prove they are great coaches, starting immediately. I hate to be a Debbie Downer since I like Stoops and believe he knows what he is doing, but to believe we are going to strongly compete in the SEC with 30th-ranked recruiting classes (11th to 13th in the SEC) is extremely optimistic. Everyone that talks about how great our underclassmen are and that we will be great when they become Juniors and Seniors should look at the 2014 All-SEC and All-Freshman teams. There are 24 Freshmen and Sophomores named All-SEC. The only one from UK was our Kicker. Ramsey Meyers was our only player on the All-Freshman team. Granted, Stoops young players are the best ones on our team, but they still don't compare with the rest of the SEC.

Exactly. This is reality. So basically, the only other way to rise in the SEC is to literally OUTCOACH most coaches in the SEC and do more with less. Do you think Stoops is capable of outcoaching most of the SEC? If not, then UK is still way behind.

Missouri has back to back SECE titles with recruiting classes ranked in that range.

Yes, and I believe that happened because Mizzou outcoached most other teams. Are we capable of outcoaching most of the SEC? The jury is still out on that. I do believe Stoops is a good coach from what i've seen. I just don't know if he's in same league with Mizzou's coach.

 

[Blue Decade]

Originally posted by gamecockcat:
if Stoops and his staff are good coaches in addition to being good/great recruiters? If, as Vince Marrow has stated, UK 'finishes strong' recruiting this year, that will mean a 3rd straight strong recruiting class for UK. That means we should have a majority of players that were recruited by this staff and many who will be in their 3rd year in the program.

Should we expect a noticeable improvement in all areas in 2015? If we don't, will it still be too early to question the effectiveness of the staff at actually coaching? Personally, I think it will still be just a bit early but can see where others might not agree.

Well said. In 2015, the bulk of Stoops own recruits will be sophomores and freshmen, with a sprinkling of 5 true juniors Ryan Timmons, Jo Jo Kemp, Marcus McWilson, Jason Hatcher, Blake McClain. Maybe Jaleel Hytchye too, not sure yet about his status. The sophomore class will be the strongest class on our roster this year, but several redshirt freshmen should make an impact. We still don't have strong junior and senior classes, that takes more time to develop. So I expect progress, with noticeable improvement on the defense. Let's see what the coordinator change means for the offense, that's hard to predict. Without knowing yet about injuries and other issues, I figure the outcome of the Kentucky-Louisville game in Lexington on Nov. 28 will determine whether we win 6 or 7 games. If Stoops threads the needle, we could win 8 but he would need everything to fall into place just right. In 2016, 8 wins should be more doable.

 

[WildcatDJ]

Originally posted by UKWinsAgainYep:

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:

Originally posted by UKWinsAgainYep:

Originally posted by STEVE!:
Stoops and his staff will have to prove they are great coaches, starting immediately. I hate to be a Debbie Downer since I like Stoops and believe he knows what he is doing, but to believe we are going to strongly compete in the SEC with 30th-ranked recruiting classes (11th to 13th in the SEC) is extremely optimistic. Everyone that talks about how great our underclassmen are and that we will be great when they become Juniors and Seniors should look at the 2014 All-SEC and All-Freshman teams. There are 24 Freshmen and Sophomores named All-SEC. The only one from UK was our Kicker. Ramsey Meyers was our only player on the All-Freshman team. Granted, Stoops young players are the best ones on our team, but they still don't compare with the rest of the SEC.

Exactly. This is reality. So basically, the only other way to rise in the SEC is to literally OUTCOACH most coaches in the SEC and do more with less. Do you think Stoops is capable of outcoaching most of the SEC? If not, then UK is still way behind.

Missouri has back to back SECE titles with recruiting classes ranked in that range.

Yes, and I believe that happened because Mizzou outcoached most other teams. Are we capable of outcoaching most of the SEC? The jury is still out on that. I do believe Stoops is a good coach from what i've seen. I just don't know if he's in same league with Mizzou's coach.

Gary Pinkel's record at Mizzou:

BIG12:

2001 4-7 (3-5)
2002 5-7 (2-6)
2003 8-5 (4-4)
2004 5-6 (3-5)
2005 7-5 (4-4)
2006 8-5 (40-4)
2007 12-2 (7-1)
2008 10-4 (5-3)
2009 8-5 (4-4)
2010 10-3 (6-2)
2011 8-5 (5-4)

SEC:

2012 5-7 (2-6)
2013 12-2 (7-2)
2014 10-2 (7-1)

Looks like Pinkel had time to build his program, and it has definitely paid off. But it didn't happen in year 3, or even year 4 or 5 for that matter.

All of that said, I think all of the freshman we were able to redshirt this past season will really pay off this year for us. We just have to be reasonable.

 

[UKWinsAgainYep]

Originally posted by WildcatDJ:

Originally posted by UKWinsAgainYep:

Originally posted by CatsFanGG24:

Originally posted by UKWinsAgainYep:

Originally posted by STEVE!:
Stoops and his staff will have to prove they are great coaches, starting immediately. I hate to be a Debbie Downer since I like Stoops and believe he knows what he is doing, but to believe we are going to strongly compete in the SEC with 30th-ranked recruiting classes (11th to 13th in the SEC) is extremely optimistic. Everyone that talks about how great our underclassmen are and that we will be great when they become Juniors and Seniors should look at the 2014 All-SEC and All-Freshman teams. There are 24 Freshmen and Sophomores named All-SEC. The only one from UK was our Kicker. Ramsey Meyers was our only player on the All-Freshman team. Granted, Stoops young players are the best ones on our team, but they still don't compare with the rest of the SEC.

Exactly. This is reality. So basically, the only other way to rise in the SEC is to literally OUTCOACH most coaches in the SEC and do more with less. Do you think Stoops is capable of outcoaching most of the SEC? If not, then UK is still way behind.

Missouri has back to back SECE titles with recruiting classes ranked in that range.

Yes, and I believe that happened because Mizzou outcoached most other teams. Are we capable of outcoaching most of the SEC? The jury is still out on that. I do believe Stoops is a good coach from what i've seen. I just don't know if he's in same league with Mizzou's coach.

Gary Pinkel's record at Mizzou:

BIG12:

2001 4-7 (3-5)
2002 5-7 (2-6)
2003 8-5 (4-4)
2004 5-6 (3-5)
2005 7-5 (4-4)
2006 8-5 (40-4)
2007 12-2 (7-1)
2008 10-4 (5-3)
2009 8-5 (4-4)
2010 10-3 (6-2)
2011 8-5 (5-4)

SEC:

2012 5-7 (2-6)
2013 12-2 (7-2)
2014 10-2 (7-1)

Looks like Pinkel had time to build his program, and it has definitely paid off. But it didn't happen in year 3, or even year 4 or 5 for that matter.

All of that said, I think all of the freshman we were able to redshirt this past season will really pay off this year for us. We just have to be reasonable.

thanks for posting that. It takes time to build a football program in the SEC. Especially coming from doormat status.

What Pinkel has done is nothing short of amazing.

 

[BlueRaider22]

It's important to also state what each person defines as "competitive." We've got posters in this thread who say that UK wont be competitive in 2015.....well what do they define as competitive. Do they feel that UK has to be capable of winning 9-10 games in order to be competitive or winning 6-7 wins?

My feeling is that if you are a team that's capable of winning half the conference games you play then you are competitive in my eyes. So, I do think we will be fairly competitive in the SEC next yr. In the end I think we will go 3-5 in conference play but 4-4 is possible.

 

[martycat1]

I have read every post and agree with just about everybody. When I sit in my new seats next year and if a QB draw is the first play that comes up, then I will be worried. If that doesn't happen, I will believe still in Stoops.

 

[Poetax]

Originally posted by martycat1:
I have read every post and agree with just about everybody. When I sit in my new seats next year and if a QB draw is the first play that comes up, then I will be worried. If that doesn't happen, I will believe still in Stoops.

Unless it goes for an 80 yard touchdown and then the worry is objective.

 

[jauk11]

Originally posted by Deeeefense:
Very good post BlueRaider22. It amazes me how people mistakenly think the recruiting rankings are like grading meat. Recruiting rankings are nothing more than the opinions of analysts on how a player projects at the next level based on what they have seen at camps and on film, and as you point out it's a matter of probabilities.

One other point I would make which for most part is totally ignored is attrition. For instance last year our class was ranked virtually even with South Carolina, but when all was said and done the Cocks had 8 commits that for one reason or another never made it to campus, whereas we kept all but one. If you reranked all the classes from 2014 AFTER attrition I'm willing to bet Kentucky would move up several notches from the already respectable 17.

Lastly analyst bias is a reality. Analysts want to be right more than anything else. Therefore evaluating two players that appear to be equal, but one has offers from tOSU, Georgia and Texas and the other has a top three of PSU, MSU and Wisconsin, there is a bias to rank the first player above the second. We have already seen that this staff has done a remarkable job of finding the sleepers. In fact now it seems that every time we jump on an apparent sleeper, a few days later the same guy that had nothing but sunbelt or MAC offers all of sudden gets an offer from a Michigan State or an Auburn.

Bottom line is classes ranked about 3.0 are excellent classes and if you are at 3.2 which is where we are that is a class that is potentially competitive in this league or any league. There are many other factors that will eventually determine how well a team does on the field, but to think you can predict future performance based on some numbers at a website is beyond absurd.

I hate to quibble with one of our very best posters but I don't see why anyone sticks with the "star" system when the much more accurate numerical system has been available for more than a decade. For instance, a lot of fans insist Brooks left Joker with a lot more talent than Joker left Stoops, when the seniors Joker inherited from the 07 class were about a 2.30 "star" rating (even if you promote the ONE 5.4 of the NINETEEN two stars in the class to a three star because of the upgrade in 09, although Lentz was injured and didn't play in 10) and the 11 class Joker left for the seniors on the Stoops 14 team averaged a 2..96 "star" average, awfully close to that 3.0 that is an excellent class. Good lord, what a sacrilege that would be. Of course one of the problems with Joker's classes (and Brooks last one) was the tremendous attrition rate, we are doing unbelievably better there now.

MOST of our commits are three stars now, no two stars in this class (our two star safety a great example of how the system breaks down at times) but there would be a tremendous difference in the talent level of a class with all 5.5 commits and one with all 5.7 commits, but both would be 3.00 "star" averages.

 

[BlueRaider22]

I use "star ratings" as one piece of the puzzle. When I look to evaluate a recruit from a fan's perspective I look at what his rating is across all sites.....Rivals, 247, ESPN, Scout, etc. Then I look at his offers and often highlight videos. It's still not incredibly accurate overall but logic would tell you that it's likely more accurate than looking at only one piece of the puzzle.