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If Kentucky was to win the Championship
- Thread starter LXWildcat
- Start date
Truth. Look at some of the talent Joe Hall and Dean Smith had before we had all these recruiting rankings. Smith won only 3 titles in 36 years at UNC***. As I recall, they seemed to consistently have the most talent of anyone, year after year.
Pitino had a chance if he hadn't went to Boston more than likely (IMO)
which to me is a good thing… having hype almost every season seems to be good. Cal has once again proven he can recruit with the best (he probably is the best recruiter still) and he’s showing that he can change the way he runs his teams, it took awhile but these are all positive. To me it seems Cal has that fire back in him, something we haven’t seen in quite awhile. We will see where he can take this team, been awhile since a lot of people felt this good about a Kentucky team. The pieces are there for a deep run, now it’s Cals job to make sure they all fit into place.
If we go by titles, it's hard to say Cals 2 wouldn't put him #2 and firmly ahead of Pitino.
Asked different, what does Cal have to do, aside from a title, to pass Pitino? Example being, does he need another Final4? Does he need several?
Asked different, what does Cal have to do, aside from a title, to pass Pitino? Example being, does he need another Final4? Does he need several?
To you it can be whatever you want but hype without results is failure. I remember a couple years ago when we beat KU on the road “cal has the fire back”. Then out first rd as a 2 seed. Let’s see. We have a game where he had no fire and that cal is capable to be back so let’s see.
This is definitely the truth. I know people hate hearing this, but the line between winning a title and "underachieving" by losing in the FF or title game is so incredibly thin. The end result between winning a title and just hanging a FF banner is huge, but the actual in game coaching differences between those two end results can be so incredibly thin you're almost splitting hairs.
Just look at Duke's 2010 title. If Hayward hits that half court shot that basically rimmed out Duke loses and K and Cal have the same number of titles since Cal got here. K would have the same exact narrative about "underachieving" at Duke with all that talent when in reality he's probably the best college coach of all time.
I know the "what if" game isn't reality, but I find it hard to get on Cal for underachieving when the difference between him having one or possibly three or so titles is just a handful of shots going in or not or a few awful officiating decisions (e.g the missed shot clock violation against Wisconsin that would have completely stopped their momentum and was so bad it prompted a rule change).
I think the difference is those guys had talent that had enough time to hone skills and ripen into actual consistently good basketball players. So lack of development was more on them (maybe not always fairly). Smith was always dinged for not winning more with not only the most supposed "talent," but also the best players.
Talent portends future potential, but the best CBB players in the OAD era are generally not the most talented nor freshmen.
Give Cal Phil Jackson’s talent and yeah well you get the point.
There’s a reason that talent came to play for Cal instead of Pitino and it’s more than UK and UL. Pitino was tired of players like M. Teague spurning UL and choosing UK, so he started hiring walking STD’s for the underage kids when they came on visits.
It’s like it’s held against Cal because the good players wanted to play for him instead of Pitino….
Rick didn’t have the talent because the talent didn’t want to play for him, not because he was at UL. UL is a bigger city, bigger and nicer arena, top 10 program of all time. If he couldn’t recruit there, that says more about him than anything else.
I swear you've got 5 or 6 accounts going right now. This is just cartoonishly hilarious stuff from you.
I have one account but you’re more than welcome to list actual facts on how Pitino is better in any way, shape or form. Not personal thoughts or hypotheticals, prove me wrong with Pitino’s resume??? I’ll hear 🦗, I’m sure….. 😁
I had wondered where your negativity had been. glad your back I needed a good laugh
Ah hell no. Rupp. Then Cal and Pitino together. Although Cal would have 2 titles, Rick took over at a low point and took them to the top.
If we're measuring just by their time at UK:
Pitino: 3/6 in getting to Final Fours in the years where his team was eligible. 50%
1/6 in titles: 17%
5/6 in Elite Eights: 83%
81% winning percentage in total.
86% winning percentage in post-probation seasons.
-----
Calipari: 4/13 in getting to the Final Four in years in years where his team was eligible. 31%
1/13 in titles: 8%
7/13 in Elite Eights: 54%
77% winning percentage.
You lose in every meaningful measurable.
Your argument is logically emaciated and reasonably bankrupt.
Try again.
That’s about right. A big number 2. Like when I dropped a Cal at about 730 this morning.
4 final fours to 3 and a championship a piece. Pitino doesn’t get to benefit for leaving after a few years, your percentages are garbage and will always benefit the smaller sample size.
If I only shoot 10 shots and make them all, that doesn’t make me a better shooter than someone who shot 100 and made 75. Although my percentage would be better.
Go back and watch Uk and UL games from Pitino’s era at UL and you will see Cal coach circles around Pitino. It’s obvious Cal is head and shoulders better X and O coach in those games.
Saul you will never get through to that dude whoever it is.
Your first paragraph discredits the rest of your argument. I didn't read past the first paragraph because the rest likely wasn't worth the time either.
I'll file you under the Kybassfan and Leadbelly camp from now on. Good to know so I won't hoist another meaningful thought your way.
If we win it all, the response from some will be that he should have more. They won't be and can't be happy. Those people want to bring other down to their level and can only be laughed at.
Cal is clearly #2 atm . You can't completely own another guy's ass regardless or spot and not be ahead of him. Just flat out it would make zero sense. Also whoever said Pitino was a better game coach is hitting that rock too hard. Pitino is horrible in any close game. As someone else said his talent lied back in the day in finding ways so the game can't be screwed by his coaching choices. I fully expect Cal to win at least one more in the next 5 years and I honestly would be surprised if he coached say 7 more years and won 2 more.
This order... Cal would need to get 3 Chips to move up. He's underachieved so bad that I don't care if he gets another one it isn't enough to move him past Pitino.
Rupp
Pitino
Cal
Joe B Hall
Tubby
Rupp
Pitino
Cal
Joe B Hall
Tubby
There has been way too much slobbering over RatFace. He was not playing by the same rules as almost everyone else was. If you ignore unfair advantages then Wooden should be recognized as well above him.
Ahead of Rupp? Seriously?
He’d be the undisputed #2 but he’d have to win 4 more titles to be in the conversation for #1.
15 seasons to 8 though. Not so simple. Sorry but for cal to get #2 for me hes got to get back to his early days of UK and finish it off at least two more times. One more time with how much he has shit the bed just won’t cut it at this stage for me.
There are a lot of bad ones floating around but this guy is a lone wolf, Saul. His m.o. is different than the others. Have a gander at his post history, even after mods have cleaned up some of the worst of his unprovoked vicious personal attacks. Some kind of screw loose in a special way with this one, even in the context of the worst types we generally have here. I’m sure hoping it doesn’t happen, but someday if I read this guy is behind some kind of future Sandy Hook I can’t say I’ll actually be surprised.
Until somebody gets 5 here nobody is above Rupp. If Cal gets number two he will be the second greatest UK coach in history.
If he closed all those he’d be the greatest coach in modern history. Period.
Another title and he is easily #2. Anyone who disagrees is doing so due to agenda.
Also, where does this 'Pitino is a great in game coach' come from?
His teams won by 10-20 or they lost usually. He was good in keeping the pressure up and keeping team down, but when it got close?
No one in front of Laettner when the whole world knew he was getting the ball??? Even 12 year old AGEE11 was yelling to put a 7 footer in front of him like a safety.
Didn't play a healthy AA who was cleared in a championship game, that we lost in OT and he would have been worth another 10+ points.
Kept a bad FT shooter in the same championship game even though AZ kept sending him to the line to miss?
Pitino wasn't a bad coach and I can't imagine what he could have done had he stayed here, but he's not some in game coaching mastermind. He was a good game planner and got a lot out of his players.
Also, where does this 'Pitino is a great in game coach' come from?
His teams won by 10-20 or they lost usually. He was good in keeping the pressure up and keeping team down, but when it got close?
No one in front of Laettner when the whole world knew he was getting the ball??? Even 12 year old AGEE11 was yelling to put a 7 footer in front of him like a safety.
Didn't play a healthy AA who was cleared in a championship game, that we lost in OT and he would have been worth another 10+ points.
Kept a bad FT shooter in the same championship game even though AZ kept sending him to the line to miss?
Pitino wasn't a bad coach and I can't imagine what he could have done had he stayed here, but he's not some in game coaching mastermind. He was a good game planner and got a lot out of his players.
Let's be clear. Cal is the sole reason we've had all that talent. Enough already
Your first line is your opinion and you know what they say about that? I’m not giving the edge to cal as #2 simply because he spent twice the time at UK as did Pitino. I’ll agree with your last paragraph however.
After Pitinos first year his last 7 years was an amazing fun run of UK basketball. We lost a grand total of 36 games in 7 seasons and only missed the tourney one year due to finishing probation but we were still 22-6. Other 6 years , 3 final fours (1 title), 2 EE’s and a 2nd rd exit.
Cals best 7 year run was his first 7 and we lost 47 games, missed the tournament 1 time due to not qualifying. 5 final fours (1 title), 1 EE.
Cal got 2 more final fours during that stretch which is a great accomplishment but not the end all be all as the regular season has to be taken into consideration as well at least from my perspective. They were both great runs but for me my edge goes to Pitino, his teams and style was fun to watch and we didn’t have to endure a season like 2013 in the middle of it. Cal getting another title this year, next year or anytime down the road is not changing that for me. The 2016-current run has not been fun basketball except for a few years sprinkled in including this year. Very doubtful we would have ever endured under Pitino what we have gone through with Cal during this stretch had he stayed longer. Obviously we will never know for certain but UK was on top of college basketball (despite the finals loss) when he bolted for Boston. No signs indicating we would have fallen off.
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