I can easily say that UK will also be there in the end. Guess what? Neither prediction means crap, but based on past performance, my prediction has a much better chance of being correct than yours.
I think our fans are too focused on the recruits and not the team
- Thread starter Samwise Ganjee
- Start date
if Pitino does not win it this year will you be happy with his 1 title in 13 years at UL?
People were also saying the 2011 team would go nowhere with 8 losses and they made it to the FF......And the '14 team had 10 losses and played in the National Championship game!
To say this year is over is WAY premature
I see your point, Sam. There's a lot of talk about recruits, and for good reason. Cal has made recruiting our fourth favorite pastime, just behind getting players drafted, cutting nets and pooping ice cream.
I personally don't have a problem with it. It's ok to be excited about the future while we enjoy (or hate on) the current ride.....
I personally don't have a problem with it. It's ok to be excited about the future while we enjoy (or hate on) the current ride.....
Who brought UL into this? Get off his nuts. Go root for those Cards. Maybe you can get a guest pass to next hooker show
Every now and then I hit "show ignored content" to see what he wrote and it's the same clueless garbage as the last time. He would seriously be happier if we were wallowing in the mediocrity of the Tubby days. He has no idea how to fix this imaginary problem he sees. He just wants to bitch incessantly to everyone about it.
I'm saying just because we have the best class doesn't mean that we'll win it all.. Pretty sure I've seen you on here bitching about recruits being overrated too..
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True, having the best recruits doesn't mean you're going to win it all, but again it gives you the best possible shot. On the other hand, having teams full of 3 and 4 star recruits gets you what Tubby Smith had. No disrespect to the man, but after his first year, he never made another final 4. Other than cut-nets, is that what any of us want?
Are people seriously asking CutNets (Zipp) why he would invoke Louisville?
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
Wait....is he really Zipp in disguise or are you just being facetious? That would explain SO much.Are people seriously asking CutNets (Zipp) why he would invoke Louisville?
If I had the time, I would create a Rivals account called "net–cutters" and troll the UL board.
Strange thread to introduce. As has been stated several times already, I have never seen a UK fan saying to forget about this year and concentrate on next year's recruiting class. That is just an idiotic statement and, frankly, something that routinely gets posted on rival message boards. It is a made up argument that UL fans in particular like to throw out there. It does not have to be one or the other. You can temper your expectations based on performance so far for this year while also looking forward to what promises to be a potentially incredible recruiting class and season next year.
Also, if you are truly dense enough to believe that John Calipari is more interested in getting kids drafted than winning a National Championship, then I don't know what to tell you--there is just not much hope for you. As has been stated ad nauseam on this site, it is coach speak to help in recruiting. Just like Pitino says every new SG recruit is the best shooter he has ever seen, Cal, as he always does, plays the long game. He tells kids we are a "player's first" program. We put getting you drafted above everything else, even a National Championship. It is not really being misleading, because he does put a ton of emphasis on getting players to their lifelong dream of playing in the NBA. And he can back that up with real results. It is simply recruiting. And it is why Cal is the best recruiter ever to walk the sidelines IMO. It is also why Ricky P cannot recruit at a consistently elite level. He cannot get over himself long enough to truly put a players interests even close to the top of the list of priorities. To be fair, a lot of the old school coaches are selfish like that as well and they do not look at the big picture.
As far as this season goes for UK, personally I have certainly tempered and readjusted my original expectations for this team based on the first 1/3 of the season. That doesn't mean I am any less of a fan for doing so, it just means I am practical. We are just not an elite team at this point. Doesn't mean we cant get there. Just means I can see that we just don't have that "it" factor that separates us from the pack so far. I will still root like hell for these guys as I think they do play hard most of the time. At least at this point they do not appear to be championship caliber. For any so-called "UK fan" to use that as an excuse for Calipari being a failure is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard on the message boards. And that is really saying something, because there are some real morons on the message boards.
Also, if you are truly dense enough to believe that John Calipari is more interested in getting kids drafted than winning a National Championship, then I don't know what to tell you--there is just not much hope for you. As has been stated ad nauseam on this site, it is coach speak to help in recruiting. Just like Pitino says every new SG recruit is the best shooter he has ever seen, Cal, as he always does, plays the long game. He tells kids we are a "player's first" program. We put getting you drafted above everything else, even a National Championship. It is not really being misleading, because he does put a ton of emphasis on getting players to their lifelong dream of playing in the NBA. And he can back that up with real results. It is simply recruiting. And it is why Cal is the best recruiter ever to walk the sidelines IMO. It is also why Ricky P cannot recruit at a consistently elite level. He cannot get over himself long enough to truly put a players interests even close to the top of the list of priorities. To be fair, a lot of the old school coaches are selfish like that as well and they do not look at the big picture.
As far as this season goes for UK, personally I have certainly tempered and readjusted my original expectations for this team based on the first 1/3 of the season. That doesn't mean I am any less of a fan for doing so, it just means I am practical. We are just not an elite team at this point. Doesn't mean we cant get there. Just means I can see that we just don't have that "it" factor that separates us from the pack so far. I will still root like hell for these guys as I think they do play hard most of the time. At least at this point they do not appear to be championship caliber. For any so-called "UK fan" to use that as an excuse for Calipari being a failure is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard on the message boards. And that is really saying something, because there are some real morons on the message boards.
I agree with the sentiment OP...
I know that's blasphemy to some...especially now days in this modern era of "recruits first"...and the arms race there is to snag the very elite...
the game has truly changed...
now it's almost shame on any coach who may pitch program and long term over signing bonus as soon as possible...even K has had to sell out...and shame on any fans who may like to see some guys stick around a few years...
there is no arguing that it works...and has worked particularly well here at UK with coach Cal...I fully understand how truly wonderful it has been...I love Cal and the success he has had...
i'm not criticizing so much as stating that these are different times...
the best talent is great and a must have...but freshmen aren't going to win a title...freshmen with sophomores and juniors who could've left earlier but stayed, can...
getting the best talent is a priority...but retaining the best talent is just as important...
we're a Dakari Johnson away from being a legit contender...he needed another year...and he would have cleaned up this year...would be the man...the perfect thunder to Ulis and Murray's lightening...no doubt he plays his way into a first rounder...
I know that's blasphemy to some...especially now days in this modern era of "recruits first"...and the arms race there is to snag the very elite...
the game has truly changed...
now it's almost shame on any coach who may pitch program and long term over signing bonus as soon as possible...even K has had to sell out...and shame on any fans who may like to see some guys stick around a few years...
there is no arguing that it works...and has worked particularly well here at UK with coach Cal...I fully understand how truly wonderful it has been...I love Cal and the success he has had...
i'm not criticizing so much as stating that these are different times...
the best talent is great and a must have...but freshmen aren't going to win a title...freshmen with sophomores and juniors who could've left earlier but stayed, can...
getting the best talent is a priority...but retaining the best talent is just as important...
we're a Dakari Johnson away from being a legit contender...he needed another year...and he would have cleaned up this year...would be the man...the perfect thunder to Ulis and Murray's lightening...no doubt he plays his way into a first rounder...
I understand your premise and I agree to an extent that times certainly have changed. But, that is kind of the thing--times always change. It changed in the 60's when Dean Smith went to the 4 corners, then in the 70's & 80's when Phi Slamma Jamma and those incredibly talented teams swept thru college basketball with a vengeance. Also, if you look at even those 70's, 80's & 90's games now, it looks slow as molasses compared to today. NOBODY plays defense. The athletic ability of the players then compared to now is peanuts.
So, it is a natural progression with the strength and conditioning programs kids start in middle school now and the AAU circuit where kids play year round that the players are going to have a big leg up on previous generations. Because of that, it has also created a situation where these elite players come in with physiques, strength & abilities that are off the charts. It is only natural that would parlay itself into the advanced elite players being more quickly ready to enter the NBA. I wish Anthony Davis would have stayed 4 years like Laettner did at Duke. However, it is not fair to ask or assume that is in his best interest. We all realize it is not. It is only in our interest as fans. Maybe in Cal's interest as head coach. Imagine how dominant that title team would be if they all stuck around 4 years. I, as I believe many UK fans are, am thankful that we have a coach was wants to win as much as anyone but he also realizes and understands that you also have to think about these kids and their families. They are set for life when they hit the NBA lotto. I like that Cal realizes and approaches it the way he does--certainly doesn't hurt him for recruiting either. But, I do believe he does have the players interests at heart.
Sorry, off on a tangent there. Back on topic, I would venture to guess that the UK fans who truly hate the one-and-done are more in the older generation. Maybe not, but that is my experience. We all would like to see our best players stick around as long as possible. I just think that this was a natural progression to the next inevitable level.
Looserville will get beat in more games then UK this season. They will be a middle of the pack ACC team if that.
Cutnetts is just another delisulional little brother fan drinking the Dicktino kool aides.
Can UofLsucksville say four final fours in five years. Nope. Podge sorry about your luck but I will overwhelming take what Cal has accomplished since he has been here over your fifteen second lack of a man any day regardless of how the season ends.
Cutnetts is just another delisulional little brother fan drinking the Dicktino kool aides.
Can UofLsucksville say four final fours in five years. Nope. Podge sorry about your luck but I will overwhelming take what Cal has accomplished since he has been here over your fifteen second lack of a man any day regardless of how the season ends.
So what am I supposed to do? Sell my house, wife and son and throw the money at the ncaa? Emmert, give us a title or I'll lick out your intestines like a deadly tom cat????
Nothing I do will make this year's team better. Only they can do that. We have to make serious improvements to be able to win a title so im going to hope this team does it and at the same time day dream about next year's team dunking through people's souls
Nothing I do will make this year's team better. Only they can do that. We have to make serious improvements to be able to win a title so im going to hope this team does it and at the same time day dream about next year's team dunking through people's souls
Atrain7732, you made some good points and I agree with most of them, with the exception of paragraph 2. Your comment---- " if you are truly dense enough to believe that John Calipari is more interested in getting kids drafted than winning a National Championship, then I don't know what to tell you" is hard for me to understand.
I know that you will say its coach speak and I would like for you to explain what "coach speak" really is. Cal said without any if's, ands, or buts their goal was to put 8 players into NBA draft not winning the championship.
That comment is contradictory to what some of you guys are saying. You say that he tells his recruits that he puts them above everything else, even winning a national championship. And then you say its not really misleading, that is where I disagree
Having said this please explain how we as fans are suppose to know when to believe what he says. I agree that anyone saying Cal has failed is ridiculous. My beef is not with Cal as much as it is with those that feel they have to explain what Cal says. Sorry didn't mean to be this long. I will still root for them.
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anon_013cn8yrfncx2
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Final fours are not an end in themselves. Their main importance is giving you a chance to win it all. As a life-long Braves fan I was proud they won the division so many years in a row while it was going on. Today all I remember is that they won just 1 WS during all those years.
Cal has done a tremendous job at UK. But he's hung exactly one banner. When he hangs another then he'll really be on to something.
Thinking about next years class is a poor fallback position
Cal has done a tremendous job at UK. But he's hung exactly one banner. When he hangs another then he'll really be on to something.
Thinking about next years class is a poor fallback position
I understand what you're saying but thinking about next year's team does not in any way mean giving up on this year's team. It just means we're excited that we have very good players coming in next year.
Cal also said you can have more than one goal..
People that dont think that idiot on the sidelines wants to win as bad as you do are making excuses to gripe and complain.
Cal has not done anything to prove that he will harm the program in order to help a kid get drafted higher.
Best players want to go pro.
Best players win games.
Cal's philosophy is to promote best players to the pros so that we have them to win games.
Not that hard.
Its amazing that 5 minutes of basketball has ruined so many people's sense of intelligence.
He did win the 38 and 3/4s prior to that you know?
How about just complain about his end game coaching instead of blaming his desire to get kids to the pros?
Because his coaching cost us in 2010 in my opinion - a timeout and telling them to stop throwing bricks from deep might have helped.
In 2014 he had to adjust better on UConn's guards, - very winnable game.
In 2015, i think he slowed it down and a timeout during the awful stretch could have helped.
Just because he has goals for kids to get to the NBA hasnt cost one game and for people to think that his goals have cost us any wins are not very bright.
But again, thats just my opinion and until I see him play kids in the tourney who have no business playing and we lose only because of that then I will join the dimwitters.
Until then, saying his goals, with a 38-0 record until losing in the final few minutes of a final four game, cost us that season is preposterous.
Yes that is one of Cals stated goals is to get them all drafted as high as possible but I'm sure that every player that has come here regardless of duration has wanted to win a championship
The one and dones know they have one shot to do it and the fact that so many of them decide they have the best chance at Kentucky by putting on the uniform adds to our elite status as a program just like it did before one and dones came into existence.
At least we're still considered a team that gives you that opportunity unlike a lot of other programs who claim to still be relavant.
It's a shame our fan base can't appreciate what the players still recognize and realize.
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Couldn't have said it better Brian. Not saying Cal is above reproach and can't ever be questioned. He, like every college coach in history, has made his share of mistakes and has had off nights.
But if people truly cannot comprehend that the getting 8 kids drafted comment was a conplete and total recruiting tool then I just don't know what to tell you. TBH, I am trying to figure out if your question is legit bc it seems so obvious to pretty much everyone else. It is the same silly argument I see on rival boards. That Cal only cares about getting kids drafted and UK is a glorified NBA D league team.
If you are a UK fan and Cal has not demonstrated his loyalty and extreme drive and desire to win, then I guess there is no helping you. it is as simple as has been stated over and over and over--Cal, the incredible recruiter that he is, understands that any televised event and interview is an opportunity to talk to all of the five stars watching and takes that opportunity to tell them exactly what each of them wants to hear. It has the added benefit of also being true. He wants to put the players interests first, while also winning games. Which is what will happen when you have the best players. See Cals record at Uk as exhibit 1. I am proud that UK has a coach that is willing to make his job harder starting over recruiting every year pretty much in order to let them achieve their lifelong NBA dreams IF THEY ARE READY. He doesn't push anyone out the door and is just honest. Many of the expected one and dones have come back.
Brian, everyone knows you can have more than one goal. My point was that he said " Our goal is to put 8 players in the NBA draft, not winning championships." You did not address that. I'll repeat that again "'not winning championships"
You may not agree, but I find that misleading.
I said that it was not so much as what Cal said as it was some of you guys feeling you had to explain what he said. I also mentioned that someone would say it was just "coach speak". Maybe you can tell me just what is "coach speak".
When you are the head coach you will be blamed for a lot of things, but I can't say he has failed, his record speaks for itself. We all have opinions and this is mine.
"Yes that is one of Cals stated goals is to get them all drafted as high as possible but I'm sure that every player that has come here regardless of duration has wanted to win a championship"
- Then why did he say " our goal was to put 8 players in NBA draft, not winning championships" ????? My point is that this is misleading
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Yeah you're right. They threw the Wisconsin game on purpose because they wanted to lose.
Seriously dude. You're WAY overthinking this. He didn't say his goal was to NOT WIN the championship. When the season started he looked at his team and said "I'm gonna make it a goal to get 8 guys drafted." Was that a goal to win the national championship? Nope. Does that mean he didn't want to? Hell no.
If he says "my goal is to get Lee and Poythress to play with intensity" is that goal to win the national championship? Nope. Or "my goal is to improve our pick and roll" that's not a goal to win the championship either.
He could have said "I set a goal to eat fewer than 2000 calories a day." Would you be mad that his goal was not to win a championship?
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You keep saying the same thing over and over. It has been explained numerous times on this thread, not to mention the million times it has come up in baiting troll posts. It cannot be explained any simpler than it has. You obviously are being intentionally dense or that is just who you are. If you cannot understand the meaning of "coach speak" and understand that coaches say many things all the time with the intended effect of motivating their current players, or downplaying what is high expectations of an incredible team. So, again if you cannot understand that very basic concept then there is no help for you my friend. Cal's NBA draft comment was completely intended to speak to the elite recruits and their families whose main goal is to get to the NBA paycheck ASAP. But you keep fighting the good fight and keep repeating the same flaming spiel over and over to try and perpetuate whatever it is you are trying to say. The rest of us will understand that with any coach you take the good with the bad and we are lucky enough that with Cal the only thing that could even possibly be considered bad is his occasional hyperbolic statements to recruits. Luckily, the majority of us fans have enough common sense to realize those statements for what they are--"coach speak".
It is a complete straw man argument. But, but, but Cal said he wanted to get 8 guys drafted. Forget about the proven results and concentrate on one or two obscure statements. Typically, we see it on rival boards and UL fans. Not sure why this guy keeps repeating the same crap over and over. Unless of course he is intentionally flaming to get a reaction. I can't decide whether he is or not.
Podge, every player that has come to UK has the aspirations of winning a championship. It was like this before Cal, while Cal is here (even the one and dones) and it will be like that after Cal no mater how much you wish it wasn't so.
One day UK will surpass UCLA as far as championship won to go along with being the all time winningest program. What will you moaners and groaners complain about then.
Wait. Are you guys talking about the class that went 38-1?? Or the team before that of which played for the national championship?? Both being slightly hampered by critical injuries.
Either way, not the best example for the "recruits don't mean anything" crowd.
Based on the talent he's had, im sure UL fans would be pleased with that. I mean if he had been getting the talent that Cal has gotten and still only one title in 13 years, then I could see UL fans upset with just the one title. Hmmm
Guess how many titles UL has during the Cal era? How many titles does UK have during the Cal era. The way you post one would think that UK has about 6 more than UL, but in fact, they have the same amount. And that's amazing to me, that Pitino, with nowhere near the talent Cal has had still has the same number of national titles. Can you explain that to me? The goal is to win the national title right? Cal could stay here for 20 more years and go to 20 more final fours and if he doesn't win it, UL still has the same amount of national titles during Cal's tenure at UK. "Podge" (haven't heard that word since about the mid 90's)
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