I am super optimistic

[bucsrule8872]

Cal has never made a Final Four without a player finishing as a top five Freshman based on the draft.

2011- Knight
2012- AD and MKG.
2014- Randle.
2015- KAT.

STOP.

I’ve never once said and am not currently saying he hasn’t done it *because* he didn’t have a top 5 recruit. I’m just saying he’s never done it. Draw your own conclusions. Surely you agree with that.

Because of that reason the next time UK signs a player that ends up top 5 in the final rankings I’m gonna be giddy.

Got it.

It's not scientific, it's just an observation.

Carry on.

 

[morgousky]

Saul in this thread.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

For those late to the party:

Kersey has heard that one source thinks Green is Memphis-bound but the UK staff feels good about him coming here.

Dante is being pulled in two directions (UK and Oregon) by two handlers and a coach.

UK still trending for Boston.


The bottom line in this thread is that we ALL want the best players possible.

 

[morgousky]

The bottom line in this thread is that we ALL want need the best players possible.

 

[Col. Angus]

Cal has never made a Final Four without a player finishing as a top five Freshman based on the draft.

2011- Knight
2012- AD and MKG.
2014- Randle.
2015- KAT.


Got it.

You can use that if ya want I guess, but going by the draft is reactive rather than a proactive stance. Once the draft is done the Final Four has already happened.

It's not scientific, it's just an observation.

Carry on.

Pretty much. I never said there was anything more to it but still today people wanna argue it and debate it when it’s just a fact of the matter. Cracks me up. Maybe he breaks the trend this coming season and it’s never mentioned again.

 

[bucsrule8872]

For those late to the party:

Kersey has heard that one source thinks Green is Memphis-bound but the UK staff feels good about him coming here.

Dante is being pulled in two directions (UK and Oregon) by two handlers and a coach.

UK still trending for Boston.


The bottom line in this thread is that we ALL want the best players possible.

And this is the only relevant info you will really get out of this thread if you read the whole thing.

 

[Bill Withers]

To quote Bill Withers: "Ain't no sunshine when she's gone."

To quote the last twelve years: "Ain't no Final Four when the RSCI top 5 are gone."

To quote Al Bundy, on women and sunshine, " I'm jealous of everyone who isn't married to you"

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

 

[morgousky]

Maybe he breaks the trend this coming season and it’s never mentioned again.

No

Because he’s got so many upperclassman it makes the need for those top tier reduced.

Freshman only / heavy teams with no upperclassman? Cal needs the cream of the crop.

But I definitely wouldn’t mention it again I guess becuase there’s no need. We’ve moved passed his original model.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

And this is the only relevant info you will really get out of this thread if you read the whole thing.

Only if people are not interested in some of the nuance surrounding the biggest debate on this board in recent months.

 

[bucsrule8872]

Only if people are not interested in some of the nuance surrounding the biggest debate on this board in recent months.

Well, it is fun to pass the time, but it's not going to help UK win a title, so I can take it or leave it.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

To quote Bill Withers: "Ain't no sunshine when she's gone."

To quote the last twelve years: "Ain't no Final Four when the RSCI top 5 are gone."

Ain’t no top five in the final four... at least for 4 years I believe

 

[davekersey]

Jalen greens High School coach is Billy McKnight. recently McKnight was asked about Green's recruitment and he said that if Jalen were to pick today it would be Kentucky. however I take that comment as somewhat veiled in that green has let it be known he is in no hurry to choose a school and will probably wait until the spring.

 

[caneintally]

Cal has never made a Final Four without a player finishing as a top five Freshman based on the draft.

2011- Knight
2012- AD and MKG.
2014- Randle.
2015- KAT.


Got it.

It's not scientific, it's just an observation.

Carry on.

I think this stat matters way more then the stat he hasn't signed a top 5 player in 3 years as in truth he has as Fox , Monk , Herro and SGA all were top 5 freshmen in reality .

 

[catsfanbgky]

Well what started out about 2020 kids that we are on and have a good shot at landing, turned into a pissing contest about what UK needs or does not need to make a Final 4 or win a championship. Wish we could have kept it about the recruits we are in good with this year, it could have been a pretty good discussion.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Well what started out about 2020 kids that we are on and have a good shot at landing, turned into a pissing contest about what UK needs or does not need to make a Final 4 or win a championship. Wish we could have kept it about the recruits we are in good with this year, it could have been a pretty good discussion.

Dissenting perspectives don't equate to a "pissing match."

Everyone has been respectful in this this thread. We're all in agreement that we want a monster haul of recruits in 2020. I'm not sure what your issue is.

If you don't like the secondary topic regarding the RSCI debate, feel free to contribute toward the aspect of Kersey's initial projections.

I personally think both topics add to a well-rounded conversation.

 

[Col. Angus]

Only if people are not interested in some of the nuance surrounding the biggest debate on this board in recent months.

What I’m saying isn’t a debate. I think what gets @morgousky so much attention is he believes Cal NEEDS those players to make a Final Four. I don’t. However if he retired tomorrow it would absolutely be fact that he did need em. I’m just hoping he bucks the trend.

Ain’t no top five in the final four... at least for 4 years I believe

And UK hasn’t been one of those teams either despite having 3 really good shots in a row. Besides, it’s not about other teams. They don’t matter. It’s about Cal’s teams and how he chooses to build a roster.

I think this stat matters way more then the stat he hasn't signed a top 5 player in 3 years as in truth he has as Fox , Monk , Herro and SGA all were top 5 freshmen in reality .

Recruits aren’t freshmen. It’s about recruits. Top 5 recruits. None of the players you mentioned were top 5 recruits. Over the last 3 years that shit should’ve stuck in your head by now.

 

[Col. Angus]

Wish we could have kept it about the recruits we are in good with this year, it could have been a pretty good discussion.

Then make it that discussion again. Seems nobody wants to talk about that anymore.

 

[bucsrule8872]

Then make it that discussion again. Seems nobody wants to talk about that anymore.

Sounds good.

Mark Boston off the list, IMHO, now that he is heading to play at Duke feeder program Sierra Canyon.

Green, Christopher, and Clarke are at the top of my list. I have a feeling we end up with Christopher and Clarke honestly. Add Todd and get Quickley and Brooks back. Great starting five.

G Quickley
G Christopher
G Clarke
F Brooks
F Todd

Allen, Fletcher, and Omoruyi off the bench. Add another 4-star or two and maybe a grad transfer. I would like to get Dawson Garcia as well.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

@bucsrule8872

Boston to Duke would be laughable at this point if it happens.

We'd effectively be telling the world that we simply can't be them anymore for the players we both want.

 

[irishcat1965]

@bucsrule8872

Boston to Duke would be laughable at this point if it happens.

We'd effectively be telling the world that we simply can't be them anymore for the players we both want.

The world knows Nike is steering players to Duke and paying them and their families to do it through cash, houses etc. That K and hoghead pulled in those players the past 4 years shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone under those circumstances.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

The world knows Nike is steering players to Duke and paying them and their families to do it through cash, houses etc. That K and hoghead pulled in those players the past 4 years shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone under those circumstances.

So when does Calipari do something about it? We are, after all, a Nike flagship school in basketball. We do have some clout.

The part that annoys me is that UK is just taking it like a good mistress that has learned not to talk back.

 

[davekersey]

Auburn remains under investigation, there could be enough damage done to sway Cooper to UK, but I have my doubts. Wishing though.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Auburn remains under investigation, there could be enough damage done to sway Cooper to UK, but I have my doubts. Wishing though.

And your thoughts on Boston?

 

[davekersey]

Omoyuri setting up a visit to UK sometime in the next three weeks. Date uncertain as of yet.

 

[davekersey]

And your thoughts on Boston?

It is a concern that Oregon will become more of a player but we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[irishcat1965]

So when does Calipari do something about it? We are, after all, a Nike flagship school in basketball. We do have some clout.

The part that annoys me is that UK is just taking it like a good mistress that has learned not to talk back.

What exactly is Cal going to do about it? When Nike names a building on their corporate campus for Cal, like they did for K, then get back with me.

 

[Smashcat]

Cal has never made a Final Four without a player finishing as a top five Freshman based on the draft.

And not so ironically now K is finding ways to not make the FF with multiple top 5 players.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

What exactly is Cal going to do about it? When Nike names a building on their corporate campus for Cal, like they did for K, then get back with me.

You make it sound like Cal has no clout.

He coached in the NBA.
He has 40 players in the league, including seven or eight current or future max guys. His flagship player is now playing with Nike's flagship superstar, coached by a Kentucky alum and friend of Cal's.
He knows virtually every scout, AU coach, Nike representative, NBA coach, NBA GM, NBA owner.
On top of that, Nike has a real interest in keeping Kentucky happy. They want profits and good PR, and UK represents the conduit to an entire state's purchasing demographic. You may think that's small potatoes, but I assure you Nike doesn't.

He can't at least shake the dust of the thing a bit and hint that Kentucky is not happy?


For a guy who formerly "burned down villages" when it came to protecting his own, he's suddenly gone the way of the monkish vow of silence when it comes to dealing with the issue at hand.

My second question is this: if it's so obvious that Nike is funneling guys to Duke, and UK has lost nine straight head-to-heads with Duke for top 5 guys, then why does Cal even attempt to recruit the same kids at this point?

All that is to say, I'm not completely sold of the Duke or bust mantra coming from Nike headquarters. I think they're actually just beating us straight up in some of these cases because they have a better brand at this point.

 

[irishcat1965]

You make it sound like Cal has no clout.

He coached in the NBA.
He had 40 players in the league, including four or five max guys.
He knows virtually every scout, AU coach, Nike representative, NBA coach, NBA GM, NBA owner.
On top of that, Nike has a real interest in keeping Kentucky happy. They want profits and good PR, and UK represents the conduit to an entire state's purchasing demographic. You may think that's small potatoes, but I assure you Nike doesn't.

He can't at least shake the dust of the thing a bit and hint that Kentucky is not happy?


For a guy who formerly "burned down villages" when it came to protecting his own, he's suddenly gone the way of the monkish vow of silence when it comes to dealing with the issue at hand.

My second question is this: if it's so obvious that Nike is funneling guys to Duke, and UK has lost nine straight head-to-heads with Duke for top 5 guys, then why does Cal even attempt to recruit the same kids at this point?

All that is to say, I'm not completely sold of the Duke or bust mantra coming from Nike headquarters. I think they're actually just beating us straight up in some of these cases because they have a better brand at this point.

Better brand? As in not making final fours with one in a generation talents like Zion surrounded by other NBA talent?

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Better brand? As in not making final fours with one in a generation talents like Zion?

And yet the Zions of the world are still going there, despite UK's best efforts to land them.

Duke is selling past, present and future when it comes to their networking. They're selling support systems that remain in play for life.

Is it fictive? Are the recruits naive for buying it? Mostly. But it's working.

 

[Aike]

You make it sound like Cal has no clout.

He coached in the NBA.
He has 40 players in the league, including seven or eight current or future max guys. His flagship player is now playing with Nike's flagship superstar, coached by a Kentucky alum and friend of Cal's.
He knows virtually every scout, AU coach, Nike representative, NBA coach, NBA GM, NBA owner.
On top of that, Nike has a real interest in keeping Kentucky happy. They want profits and good PR, and UK represents the conduit to an entire state's purchasing demographic. You may think that's small potatoes, but I assure you Nike doesn't.

He can't at least shake the dust of the thing a bit and hint that Kentucky is not happy?


For a guy who formerly "burned down villages" when it came to protecting his own, he's suddenly gone the way of the monkish vow of silence when it comes to dealing with the issue at hand.

My second question is this: if it's so obvious that Nike is funneling guys to Duke, and UK has lost nine straight head-to-heads with Duke for top 5 guys, then why does Cal even attempt to recruit the same kids at this point?

All that is to say, I'm not completely sold of the Duke or bust mantra coming from Nike headquarters. I think they're actually just beating us straight up in some of these cases because they have a better brand at this point.

It’s all branding. NIKE. LIKE MIKE. COKE. DUKE. That’s the KEY.

Our problem is that our name is too long. KENTUCKY. Doesn’t roll off the tongue. Get a real Governor and maybe we can fix this mess.

Figure that out, and you’ll figure out the streets.

Edit to add: TUKE would work. Let’s get to work on this.

 

[irishcat1965]

And yet the Zions of the world are still going there, despite UK's best efforts to land them.

Duke is selling past, present and future when it comes to their networking. They're selling support systems that remain in play for life.

Is it fictive? Are the recruits naive for buying it? Mostly. But it's working.

UK and Mitch aren’t going the the route to secure the Zions- cash and houses. It doesn’t mean Cal isn’t going to keep recruiting top talent because some kids and their families aren’t looking for a handout.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

UK and Mitch aren’t going the the route to secure the Zions- cash and houses. It doesn’t mean Cal isn’t going to keep recruiting top talent because some kids and their families aren’t looking for a handout.

So how does that work exactly? When do they suggest they're looking for handouts? Because in the vast majority of these cases, Cal is intimately in the know with their families, their circles, and obviously the players themselves.

Does Nike call the families after Cal leaves and say, "You know, we'll offer you a house if you go to Duke. Don't go to Kentucky, which by the way, is also a Nike school, but nevermind all that. Come to Duke."

And then Cal realizes after two or three years of getting to know a kid's family, that they really wanted handouts the whole time?

So they were good kids from good homes right up until the moment they committed to Duke?

Also, Nike runs the show for UK and Duke. They win either way. Why are they employing the favored son approach?

 

[irishcat1965]

And yet the Zions of the world are still going there, despite UK's best efforts to land them.

Duke is selling past, present and future when it comes to their networking. They're selling support systems that remain in play for life.

Is it fictive? Are the recruits naive for buying it? Mostly. But it's working.

One huge part of the equation you are missing- K is untouchable with the NCAA while they are itching to slam Cal if they can. If Thomas at Duke can pay for $100,000 worth jewelry with $35,000 in cash and get a loan for the rest as a college student and the NCAA looks the other way, K knows they can do anything.

 

[irishcat1965]

So how does that work exactly? When do they suggest they're looking for handouts? Because in the vast majority of these cases, Cal is intimately in the know with their families, their circles, and obviously the players themselves.

Does Nike call the families after Cal leaves and say, "You know, we'll offer you a house if you go to Duke. Don't go to Kentucky, which by the way, is also a Nike school, but nevermind all that. Come to Duke."

And then Cal realizes after two or three years of getting to know a kid's family, that they really wanted handouts the whole time?

So they were good kids from good homes right up until the moment they committed to Duke?

Also, Nike runs the show for UK and Duke. They win either way. Why are they employing the favored son approach?

Duke is the favorite son. You would have to ask Nike why. Why did they name a building after K on their campus? As far as being good kids, getting a handout doesn’t mean Zion isn’t a good kid. As far as I can tell, he seems like he is.

 

[Cat Ballou]

The staff thing is what frustrates me the most about Cal. As much as he preaches the NBA, and he has NO guys with real NBA experience on his staff?

Penny just out-recruited the rest of college basketball last year - a novice college coach in a crime-infested city in a crap conference with 0 television exposure - precisely because of a coaching staff that has tons of NBA cred.

I’m sure Justus is a great guy and adds a lot and I want him to stay with the program, but why in the world do you move a complete novice - who was recruited from the high school ranks - into a recruiting assistant position at Kentucky when you could add a name guy who could give your coaching staff some NBA swag?

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Duke is the favorite son. You would have to ask Nike why. Why did they name a building after K on their campus? As far as being good kids, getting a handout doesn’t mean Zion isn’t a good kid. As far as I can tell, he seems like he is.

You'd think Nike could at least hint to Cal which kids he shouldn't waste his time on, right?

You'd think that being a Nike school, someone in the back channels could at least do Cal's staff the courtesy instead of investing what ironically equates to Nike money into recruiting a kid who's Duke bound.

Instead, we see Cal recruit a kid for 2-3 years and then lose them do Duke. Over and over and over again. That has to be frustrating, especially when UK is technically eating at the Nike table.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

It’s all branding. NIKE. LIKE MIKE. COKE. DUKE. That’s the KEY.

Our problem is that our name is too long. KENTUCKY. Doesn’t roll off the tongue. Get a real Governor and maybe we can fix this mess.

Figure that out, and you’ll figure out the streets.

Edit to add: TUKE would work. Let’s get to work on this.

Tucky!! That should fix it

 

[irishcat1965]

You'd think Nike could at least hint to Cal which kids he shouldn't waste his time on, right?

You'd think that being a Nike school, someone in the back channels could at least do Cal's staff the courtesy instead of investing what ironically equates to Nike money into recruiting a kid who's Duke bound.

Instead, we see Cal recruit a kid for 2-3 years and then lose them do Duke. Over and over and over again. That has to be frustrating, especially when UK is technically eating at the Nike table.

Actually Saul, I really liked the makeup of the roster last year and think this year’s roster will be dangerous as well.