HS QB Recruitment and Development

[Pelosigalore]

IMO, High School QB recruitment and development is the biggest failure by far in the Stoops era. I guess there’s been some bad luck along the way with Drew Barker getting injured. This staff has not recruited and developed any QBs at all. We might have to go all the way back to Andre Woodson as the last one at UK.
Not good for long term success.

 

[bthaunert]

It has definitely been a weakness in recruiting. Here are the QB's that UK has signed out of HS under Stoops and their FBS stats:

Reese Phillips - 45 career yards of passing
Drew Barker - 747 career passing yards and 5 TD's
Gunner Hoak - 271 career passing yards and 3 TD's
Danny Clark - 0 career passing yards
Walker Wood - 15 career passing yards
Amani Gilmore - 0 career passing yards
Nik Scalzo - 0 career passing yards
Beau Allen - 132 career passing yards

That's really bad. I know that in the era of the immediate transfer, it's not as important. but damn that's bad.

 

[Coach Marrow]

It has definitely been a weakness in recruiting. Here are the QB's that UK has signed out of HS under Stoops and their FBS stats:

Reese Phillips - 45 career yards of passing
Drew Barker - 747 career passing yards and 5 TD's
Gunner Hoak - 271 career passing yards and 3 TD's
Danny Clark - 0 career passing yards
Walker Wood - 15 career passing yards
Amani Gilmore - 0 career passing yards
Nik Scalzo - 0 career passing yards
Beau Allen - 132 career passing yards

That's really bad. I know that in the era of the immediate transfer, it's not as important. but damn that's bad.

Outside of Drew Barker, that’s such a depressing list.

 

[Pelosigalore]

It’s even worse than I imagined!

 

[IFerg1969]

When you never REALLY commit to the passing game as a staff, you get half-assed results. There are reasons why the UK passing game has mostly sucked under Stoops, the least of which is "bad luck". Not saying they haven't had some. But 14 years in, if you really wanted to be able to throw the ball proficiently, you'd be doing it. And "YES", they've been terrible at developing HS QBs.

 

[ArtLaibsGhost]

If I was recruiting against us I would show that list to every QB recruit on my list. If you were a highly ranked QB prospect out of high school WHY would you come here. Besides his horrid game and clock management, its my biggest gripe about our coach. He doesnt even try to develop QBs and the proof is in the pudding. We have had one good actual QB and 1 serviceable one in 12 years. Most of the QBs he recruits rarely get a chance to play more than one or two series a year, as Stopos aversion to running up the score as well as offensive ineptitude, make it difficult to give the backups any reps.

 

[jlkirk]

If I was recruiting against us I would show that list to every QB recruit on my list. If you were a highly ranked QB prospect out of high school WHY would you come here. Besides his horrid game and clock management, its my biggest gripe about our coach. He doesnt even try to develop QBs and the proof is in the pudding. We have had one good actual QB and 1 serviceable one in 12 years. Most of the QBs he recruits rarely get a chance to play more than one or two series a year, as Stopos aversion to running up the score as well as offensive ineptitude, make it difficult to give the backups any reps.

I cant get $9 Million plus out of my head...

 

[Crystalglass]

Honestly, this is one area where I can’t get too worked up. QBs are born to fail at the next level. Great HS QBs can’t crack it in college. All time college QBs can’t even make an NFL team as a backup.

Plus, our best QB by leaps and bounds was Stephen Johnson. A no-name JUCO.

The culture around the program has been terrible the past 5 years or so. That, above all else, is why Stoops is failing. A middling QB with a great O-line, stout defense, and workhorse RB can take us a long way. Obviously, developing some QBs will help, but our recruiting has been sufficient to be better than we’ve been.

Maybe the O-line is one area where the lack of success is directly related to poor evaluation.

 

[Pelosigalore]

Honestly, this is one area where I can’t get too worked up. QBs are born to fail at the next level. Great HS QBs can’t crack it in college. All time college QBs can’t even make an NFL team as a backup.

Plus, our best QB by leaps and bounds was Stephen Johnson. A no-name JUCO.

The culture around the program has been terrible the past 5 years or so. That, above all else, is why Stoops is failing. A middling QB with a great O-line, stout defense, and workhorse RB can take us a long way. Obviously, developing some QBs will help, but our recruiting has been sufficient to be better than we’ve been.

Maybe the O-line is one area where the lack of success is directly related to poor evaluation.

True, but zero QBs developed? The good programs develop them. But to your point, there’s a ton of other problems with the program for sure.

 

[23jumpboy]

Gotta quit looking at the portal as a fix for all and pick some guys, develop them, and then let them compete. Then choose a guy and stick with him!

 

[Crystalglass]

I guess I would argue most programs with great QBs rarely “develop” them. They stack the deck by recruiting tons of high profile recruits and some of them pan out. I can’t really think of a program that consistently “develops” their recruits in the way a program like UK would have to do without access to multiple 4 and 5* each recruiting cycle.

The Air Raid schools do it by completely turning the team over help the passing game succeed. It works, but at the expense of legitimate success.

I think our transfer portal work has also been more about culture failures than “development”.

 

[SkyPrince1]

It has definitely been a weakness in recruiting. Here are the QB's that UK has signed out of HS under Stoops and their FBS stats:

Reese Phillips - 45 career yards of passing
Drew Barker - 747 career passing yards and 5 TD's
Gunner Hoak - 271 career passing yards and 3 TD's
Danny Clark - 0 career passing yards
Walker Wood - 15 career passing yards
Amani Gilmore - 0 career passing yards
Nik Scalzo - 0 career passing yards
Beau Allen - 132 career passing yards

That's really bad. I know that in the era of the immediate transfer, it's not as important. but damn that's bad.

Outside of Barker Houk and Allen, the rest were extreme reaches by the staff with little chance to make any significant impact

 

[SkyPrince1]

Gotta quit looking at the portal as a fix for all and pick some guys, develop them, and then let them compete. Then choose a guy and stick with him!

Not just the QB position.
The Big Blue Wall was built through HS recruiting and development.
Our current portal heavy O-line is not on the same level

 

[Oboro95]

When you never REALLY commit to the passing game as a staff, you get half-assed results. There are reasons why the UK passing game has mostly sucked under Stoops, the least of which is "bad luck". Not saying they haven't had some. But 14 years in, if you really wanted to be able to throw the ball proficiently, you'd be doing it. And "YES", they've been terrible at developing HS QBs.

Absolutely, it is a matter of desire and luck has little to do with the situation. One might say the Stoops era has typically produced "zero-assed" results in the passing game.

 

[Ukatcowboy]

I guess I would argue most programs with great QBs rarely “develop” them. They stack the deck by recruiting tons of high profile recruits and some of them pan out. I can’t really think of a program that consistently “develops” their recruits in the way a program like UK would have to do without access to multiple 4 and 5* each recruiting cycle.

The Air Raid schools do it by completely turning the team over help the passing game succeed. It works, but at the expense of legitimate success.

I think our transfer portal work has also been more about culture failures than “development”.

Louisville?

 

[23jumpboy]

Not just the QB position.
The Big Blue Wall was built through HS recruiting and development.
Our current portal heavy O-line is not on the same level

Agreed!

 

[Crystalglass]

Louisville?

Who’s been a world beater QB for UL that wasn’t a high ranked kid out of HS? They aren’t really known for taking kids and building a consistent developmental program

 

[megablue]

Look with eyes deeper than HS stats.
Look at how they play under adverse conditions.

 

[gamecockcat]

Not just the QB position.
The Big Blue Wall was built through HS recruiting and development.
Our current portal heavy O-line is not on the same level

While I tend to agree, both Eli and Burton have been in the program for several years and we recruited them right out of HS. I think you can make the case that, as a unit, those two are responsible for a lot more busted plays and QB pressures/sacks than any other two since they've been here. Both whiff multiple times a game. Both get overpowered straight up a few times a game. They aren't horrible re: penalties usually, so that's good. And, of course, they do have good plays. But, it seems like the majority of disaster plays has one or both unfortunately at fault. Look no further than the 7-on-3 debacle in USC game. Eli's man bull rushed him and pushed him out of the way on his way to BV's face. Now, to be fair, the other two USC players were close behind but Eli just got overpowered and shoved aside. He's a SR who weighs > 300 lbs and has started for UK for 3+ years. That is NOT recruit and develop. That's a player who plateaued a few years ago and hasn't gotten a lick better since.

 

[azubuikefan]

Louisville?

What

 

[bthaunert]

I guess I would argue most programs with great QBs rarely “develop” them. They stack the deck by recruiting tons of high profile recruits and some of them pan out. I can’t really think of a program that consistently “develops” their recruits in the way a program like UK would have to do without access to multiple 4 and 5* each recruiting cycle.

The Air Raid schools do it by completely turning the team over help the passing game succeed. It works, but at the expense of legitimate success.

I think our transfer portal work has also been more about culture failures than “development”.

I'm not sure I agree here. In 11 years, the HS QB's that Stoops has signed have thrown for a total of 1,210 yards, 8 TD's and 7 INT's in FBS. There is no way that any other program in the SEC has been that bad in that timeframe. It's both recruiting and development.

 

[truebluewildcat]

Been saying this for years. I would go further and say passing game in general. From finding the talent to developing it to produce consistently within any of the various offenses that have come and gone.

Stoops, Marrow, Gran haven't been able to find, develop, play a QB but surrounding talent has been lacking overall. Haven't had great productive WRs or TEs.

 

[ukalum1988]

IMO, High School QB recruitment and development is the biggest failure by far in the Stoops era. I guess there’s been some bad luck along the way with Drew Barker getting injured. This staff has not recruited and developed any QBs at all. We might have to go all the way back to Andre Woodson as the last one at UK.
Not good for long term success.

I might suggest Mike Hartline (more or less immediately followed Woodson) was a solid if not spectacular QB recruited out of HS by Brooks. But yes, as others have stated in this thread, HS QB recruiting and development by Stoops and staff has been abysmal.

 

[NoDef]

You are not going to recruit good QB's in this style of football. The only hope is an in-state recruit comes in. The only other option is transfer portal with guys that can't play anywhere else.

 

[Pelosigalore]

We have to hope that Cutter Boley is legit.

 

[truebluewildcat]

We've had 2 QBs/seasons of 25 passing TDs and 2500+ yds since Woodson, maybe Hartline. That's 2 serviceable QBs and passing attacks in 12 years and they were portal guys.

I don't know how many 1000 yd WRs we've seen since that time frame, but it's not many and we sure as shit haven't seen a TE who can move chains and win games like Tamme.

That is abysmal. An absolute lack of basic understanding of passing game. From grass roots eyeball recruiting "that kid can toss it...that kid can catch it" to developing those kids to be able to succeed within a system.

It's more than frustrating, because for all the grief CMS catches, he actually does everything else good-great. We've had good-great D and individual talents on that side. We've had great RBs and ground assaults. We've had some solid OLs.

All we need is someone on staff who can recruit, develop, and coach pass game.

 

[Lost In FL]

It has definitely been a weakness in recruiting. Here are the QB's that UK has signed out of HS under Stoops and their FBS stats:

Reese Phillips - 45 career yards of passing
Drew Barker - 747 career passing yards and 5 TD's
Gunner Hoak - 271 career passing yards and 3 TD's
Danny Clark - 0 career passing yards
Walker Wood - 15 career passing yards
Amani Gilmore - 0 career passing yards
Nik Scalzo - 0 career passing yards
Beau Allen - 132 career passing yards

That's really bad. I know that in the era of the immediate transfer, it's not as important. but damn that's bad.

To be fair, UK has sucked at this for a while, since Andre Woodson...
2004 - Joe Joe Brown
2005 - Curtis Pulley
2006 - Will Fidler, Michael Hartline #4 all time UK passing yards by my notes
2007 - Matt Lentz
2008 - Randall Cobb (turned out "okay" as a WR ... sarcasm ... he was GREAT), Deaunte Mason
2009 - Ryan Mossakowski, Morgan Newton
2010 - Tyler Brause
2011 - Theltus Cobbins, Max Smith #15 all time passing yards
2012 - Patrick Towles #7 all time UK passing yards, Jalen Whitlow (recruited as an ATH)
2013 (Stoops' first class) - Reese Phillips
2014 - Drew Barker
2015 - None
2016 - Gunnar Hoak Steven "Smitty" Johnson (tr) #10 all time passing yards
2017 - Danny Clark, Walker Wood
2018 - Terry Wilson (transfer) #13 all time passing yards
2019 - Nik Scalzo, Amani Gilmore
2020 - Joey Gatewood (tr), Beau Allen
2021 - Will Levis #6 all time passing yards (tr), Kaiya Sheron
2022 - Duece Hogan (tr)
2023 - Devin Leary #22 all time passing yards (tr)
2024 - Brock Vandagriff (tr), Gavin Wimsatt (tr), Beau Allen part 2 (tr), Cutter Boley

 

[bthaunert]

To be fair, UK has sucked at this for a while, since Andre Woodson...
2004 - Joe Joe Brown
2005 - Curtis Pulley
2006 - Will Fidler, Michael Hartline #4 all time UK passing yards by my notes
2007 - Matt Lentz
2008 - Randall Cobb (turned out "okay" as a WR ... sarcasm ... he was GREAT), Deaunte Mason
2009 - Ryan Mossakowski, Morgan Newton
2010 - Tyler Brause
2011 - Theltus Cobbins, Max Smith #15 all time passing yards
2012 - Patrick Towles #7 all time UK passing yards, Jalen Whitlow (recruited as an ATH)
2013 (Stoops' first class) - Reese Phillips
2014 - Drew Barker
2015 - None
2016 - Gunnar Hoak Steven "Smitty" Johnson (tr) #10 all time passing yards
2017 - Danny Clark, Walker Wood
2018 - Terry Wilson (transfer) #13 all time passing yards
2019 - Nik Scalzo, Amani Gilmore
2020 - Joey Gatewood (tr), Beau Allen
2021 - Will Levis #6 all time passing yards (tr), Kaiya Sheron
2022 - Duece Hogan (tr)
2023 - Devin Leary #22 all time passing yards (tr)
2024 - Brock Vandagriff (tr), Gavin Wimsatt (tr), Beau Allen part 2 (tr), Cutter Boley

Not necessarily. When you get a good QB, he can be a starter for 2-4 years, so the guys beneath just don’t get a shot. Prior to Stoops, we had (FBS stats) the following guys we recruited out of HS:

2012 - Maxwell Smith - 4,600 yards, 34 TD’s
2011 - Maxwell Smith
2011 - Morgan Newton - 1,837 yards, 15 TD’s
2010 - Mike Hartline - 5,680 yards, 38 TD’s
2009 - Mike Hartline
2008 - Mike Hartline
2007 - Andre Woodson - 9,360 yards, 79 TD’s
2006 - Andre Woodson
2005 - Andre Woodson

The two aren’t even close. The Brooks/Joker era blows the Stoops era out in terms of recruiting HS QB’s to be QB1. And I didn’t even include Towles, who was brought in under Joker and threw for 6,829 yards and 36 TD’s.

 

[Cole World]

QB recruiting has been the most embarrassing part of the Stoops tenure