They never seem to recruit all that well, and as the latest example, their newest wunderkind, Charles Harris, was Phil Steele #384 out of HS, about what Farrington Huegenin was rated. How the hell do they keep pulling rabbits out of their hat?
How does Missouri develop all these defensive linemen?
- Thread starter Tskware
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Harris is an athletic phenom who played basketball for most of high school, and wasn't highly regarded at football at first because he didn't have a lot of football experience. Missouri took a chance and hit the jackpot; to their credit. I would think it's more than just luck that they did this; good coaching staffs find guys like this, just like a good personnel department in the nfl managed to find a college basketball player named Antonio Gates.
Mizzou has been fortunate to find quite a number of players, both defensive and offensive, that were 2 maybe 3 stars. The 4 & 5 stars are great but we don't get many. We have been blessed to have a real good coach for the D. We use to score 40 and allow a lot. I think the change to the SEC has changed that, not that we wouldn't like to score 40 to go with our top 10 D. If our O could score maybe 20 or so we will be in most games.
They do have a top five star as a freshman. I imagine if they develop him, he will be a beast for next 3 years.
FWIW, I've noticed this has been the case with an awful lot of these diamonds in the rough over the last couple decades. There's a load of potential grade A football talent to be found on HS basketball courts ...IF you've got a scout with a keen eye and the ability to convince a kid to switch sports...
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They sign guys who are athletic, spend 2-3 years putting 30-75 lbs on them, depending on where they intend to play them. Plus having a great dl coach doesn't hurt.
A lot of teams have taken the strategy that you don't find players that are fit to play the position. Instead, you find players that can become fit to play the position. Harris was just 220 pounds coming out of high school. Now, 30 pounds later he has the speed he had at 220 and the power of 255. That's a dangerous combination. Walter Brady came in as a 6'4 225 pound freshmen. He is already listed at 255. Nate Howard also came in at 220 and is now up to 230 as a freshman backup. They have relied on using these lighter guys and turning them into 250-260 pound speed rushers. It isn't easy, but it is a strategy that's worked for them.
I know UK plays a 3-4 now and they need bigger defensive ends, but it is interesting that we only have 1 defensive end under 260, and that's Ware at 255.
I know UK plays a 3-4 now and they need bigger defensive ends, but it is interesting that we only have 1 defensive end under 260, and that's Ware at 255.
Excellent talent evaluators (KY staff is seen much the same way). Pinkel has been there for over 10 years and has been able to build up a revolving door of matured RS players who he can reload with every year. Excellent development coaching staff as well.
Excellent blueprint for UK to follow, although I think UK has a higher ceiling in recruiting than they do.
Missouri has proven their formula works, but the doubters will say a lot of their success is because of a down SEC East because they have been handled by West teams in the SEC Championship game. Either way, I would take their success at UK in a millisecond and it was only 3 seasons ago Pinkel was on the hotseat.
Excellent blueprint for UK to follow, although I think UK has a higher ceiling in recruiting than they do.
Missouri has proven their formula works, but the doubters will say a lot of their success is because of a down SEC East because they have been handled by West teams in the SEC Championship game. Either way, I would take their success at UK in a millisecond and it was only 3 seasons ago Pinkel was on the hotseat.
More than likely the case. This is part of the problem with recruiting rankings. It assumes all players play the same system. Is a 5 star drop back passer a better recruit than the 2 star QB that Georgia Tech signs? More than likely he is. Would that same 5 star drop back passer run GA Tech's triple option as well as the 2 star QB? Absolutely not.
This is why coaches in stable programs have an advantage. They have an established system. They know what they need for each position and they get exactly the player they need instead of just trying to get the highest rated prospect. The good news for UK is that you are starting to see Stoops do that now. We are no longer going after the best prospect but are now focusing on needs.
I saw coach Pinkel asked about this. He basically said they look for certain characteristics in a D-lineman, quickness, intelligence, etc. He said they do not pay attention to star ratings at all.
In addition, I've heard Mizzou may have the best D-Lineman coach in America. I can't remember his name.
Yep. Find a natural athlete with a tall sturdy frame who's too skinny right now, spend a couple years packing weight on him, and turn him into a lineman. It's a formula that can often work better than signing the polished prospect with the already built-up (but less athletic) body.
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I am excited about the quality of player Coach Stoops and staff are recruiting, and how much they have achieved in such a short time. The future looks bright for our O and D lines, as well as for the rest of our team. It won't be long before we will have the luxury of red-shirting and developing the quality and depth of players needed to win at the highest levels. Go Cats!!
A quick check of Missouri's roster shows 64 RSs. SIXTY FOUR. That includes almost all their linemen on both sides of the ball plus LBs and DBs. Compare that to UK's 22 RSs which is actually an increase over recent years. Still, due to poor recruiting by previous folks UK's forced to play true frosh like Allen and Jones and Westry and Batey...guys who would've likely been RSed at Missouri and would've been RSed at UK too under different circumstances.
Pinkel is a veteran coach, as good as anybody around, with a veteran staff who has a plan and sticks to it. RSing and developing is at the top of his list.
Pinkel is a veteran coach, as good as anybody around, with a veteran staff who has a plan and sticks to it. RSing and developing is at the top of his list.
Simple: they have the best defensive line position coach in the business, and after putting a few guys in the league, it makes it easier for them to sign blue chips. All builds on itself.
I am not sure that is entirely the case with UK, they are recruiting talented guys at the skill positions, I think both lines have been a little slower in getting those top kids for whatever reason, maybe because there aren't as many out there. UK's guys are highly skilled and so far have shown a RS wouldn't help them much, or UK because they aren't likely to be 5 year guys. UGA has played 19 true frosh, if you think they can play, give them a shot. UK felt like they recruited over returning starters and its hard to argue they didn't. There are teams they would be playing for in the SEC besides UK as true frosh.
But that is the point, they really are not signing blue chippers (see Mark Story's article in today's LHL for more on this topic)
Maybe Josh Allen can be one of those guys we can turn into a good DE here in a couple of years.
We have one of the best DL coaches in the nation and one of the best strength and conditioning coaches as well. And added starting this year, former All Pro DE & DT Justin Smith helping out.
The Mizzou staff doesn't focus on high school production. They look at the kid's frame, certain other physical measurables, work ethic. A 4 or 5 star may be more physically mature, but also closer to maxing out his potential physically, whereas the 2 or 3 star Mizzou signs may have a long term higher ceiling physically. A 6'4 260lb DE coming out of high school may draw more oohs and aahs than a 6'3 210lb DE, but that smaller guy may have better speed, agility, and more room for future growth than the bigger kid.
The Mizzou staff doesn't focus on high school production. They look at the kid's frame, certain other physical measurables, work ethic. A 4 or 5 star may be more physically mature, but also closer to maxing out his potential physically, whereas the 2 or 3 star Mizzou signs may have a long term higher ceiling physically. A 6'4 260lb DE coming out of high school may draw more oohs and aahs than a 6'3 210lb DE, but that smaller guy may have better speed, agility, and more room for future growth than the bigger kid.
Smart recruiting (with a purpose/scheme in mind when evaluating a player) and player development. It's gotten to a point where it seems to be plug and play at Mizzou
Dubose, middleton, meant, and Eli will look a lot like the kind of guys missouri has. They need weight and coaching but have just as high of a ceiling as almost anyone in the country.
Shame we had to burn kg and Allens rs this year. As we mature as a program we should only have to play freshmen who are 100 % ready for games.
Shame we had to burn kg and Allens rs this year. As we mature as a program we should only have to play freshmen who are 100 % ready for games.
One thing people are forgetting is that missouri might be the the 4th or 5th most populated state with no other serious contender in state. They have a good pool of talent to pick from they just have to fight off old big 12 rivals for them but I bet it's getting easi err r now.
I've said this before myself. I do feel like we got lucky and got the best Stoops.
And we're definitely going to be patient and not run him off any time soon...we just hope he sticks around, and think that he will with what he is building here.
I seriously doubt they are that high. I've traveled a good deal in Missouri and their are vast stretches of where it's very poorly populated. Ya they have St Luois and a little bit of Kansas City but it's prob around 20 or so in the country. Close to us. Off the top of my head I'd say Cali, New York, Pennsylvania, Texas, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Ohio and prob Indiana as well, Indianapolis is huge. Tennessee prob has more people. Nashville prob same size as St Luois is and then you have Memphis, Chsrtanooga, Knoxville Clarksville etc. Ya I'd say they have a higher population.
Ky is not as sparse as u guys think it is. Go west and their are states with like 500,000 people. And you have small states like Rhode Island, Conn, New Hampshire etc. They are all low populated states.
Missouri has most of KC, not a little bit.
Bigger SEC states are Texas, Florida, Georgia and Tennessee. So we are 5th in the conference in population. Missouri at a bit over 6 million, has about 1.6 million people more than Kentucky.
I was referring to conf. So outside of the gulf coast teams Missou has as much in state as anyone. But you guys lean more pro fans than college from my passing through. ..?
Yes, Missouri is much more of a professional sports state with the Cardinals having a huge following in St. Louis, and the Chiefs in KC. Royals popularity has really picked up in KC as well the last two seasons.
In the early 80s, Mizzou hired the a chancellor Babs Uehling who hated athletics and envisioned Mizzou being a top tier national school. The entrance requirements for athletes was raised and there was no budget for athletics and athletic facilities. Her plans for the campus were outstanding and it is a gorgeous campus now, but it was a death blow to the football program. The basketball program survived because of Norm Stewart and having won the Big 8 four years in a row. But in football we couldn't compete with Nebraska using prop 48 and county scholarships. County scholarships were used to give the best athletes in each Nebraska county an academic scholarship to Nebraska, so they could load up on players outside the NCAA limits on athletic scholarships.
We also had an AD, Dave Hart (father of UT AD) who decided to hire Woody Wiedenhoffer over John Cooper, Bobby Ross, and former Mizzou player turned coach Bill McCartney.
It wasn't until a new administration in 1994 got serious and hired Larry Smith to turn the program around. Larry's insistence in facilities improvements and other support for the football program are key to us getting Pinkel and getting to join the SEC.
These dark days cost Mizzou a generation of fans. Many in their late 30s and 40s grew up in their formative years with horrible football at Mizzou and are just now being won over. Among young kids though, when visiting my son's school, Mizzou is hugely popular. Being part of the SEC has been great for Mizzou. Enrollment has skyrocketed to over 35,000 now (school is targeting 40,000 by 2020), we are getting more looks from athletes in areas before we would have never had any shot.
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