Grading Lebron

[uky8unc5]

It's blind ignorance to mention Lebron's shooting %. He was double teamed and had no legs in the 4th quarter.

I mean, cmon man....he led EVERYONE (both teams) in scoring, rebounds, and assists.

 

[coolcat9lives]

That Lakers roster was trash outside of Kobe and Shaq though.

They had D Fisher and Robert Horry. Both extremely clutch. Also had Rick Fox who was a solid role player. Not great but not awful either. Just meh. Kobe and Shaq carried that team though.

 

[truebluewildcat]

He needs a perimeter...a true guard, a shooter, and an explosive scoring wing/small forward...

I know Kyrie is a baller...but he may be going down a derek rose path with injuries...

I know Love can shoot and score...but he doesn't want to be there, and may bounce anyway...

trade both those guys while they're still young and have some value...set LeBron up with a bomb squad that could ball for the next decade...

 

[cardsfan53]

Take LeBron off the Cavs team in the finals they would be one of the 5 worse teams in the nba.

 

[JohnKBA]

Put it this way - swap out Lebron for faux MVP Stephanie Curry, and the Warriors go something like 76-6 this year and probably 16-1 in the playoffs, and the Bulls or Hawks make the finals out of the east.

It's an A++++. He is the best player in the world, bar none, and is absolutely a top 5 player all time. That team he carried to 2 wins vs a historically excellent GS team was hot garbage.

 

[cardsfan53]

Put it this way - swap out Lebron for faux MVP Stephanie Curry, and the Warriors go something like 76-6 this year and probably 16-1 in the playoffs, and the Bulls or Hawks make the finals out of the east.

It's an A++++. He is the best player in the world, bar none, and is absolutely a top 5 player all time. That team he carried to 2 wins vs a historically excellent GS team was hot garbage.

Agree with that 100% put LeBron with Livingston, Green, Barnes, Iggy, Klay, Bogut, Lee, and the big guy from Vandy no doubt I think they win 73 games

 

[dvillecatfan]

That Lakers roster was trash outside of Kobe and Shaq though.

are you saying that the 2015 GSW would beat the 2001 lakers? i do believe those lakers were as good if not better than these GSW.

 

[Aike]

are you saying that the 2015 GSW would beat the 2001 lakers? i do believe those lakers were as good if not better than these GSW.

2001 Lakers lost 1 fluke playoff game to the Sixers. That team was the truth down the stretch.

 

[Catsfan0809]

Making it to the finals and losing 4 times.....not sure. The comparisons to MJ should cease.

Yeah because Jordan won the title every year he played in the NBA. How is Lebron losing in the finals worse than losing before the finals?

 

[JohnKBA]

2001 Lakers lost 1 fluke playoff game to the Sixers. That team was the truth down the stretch.

The 2001 Lakers would run circles around this GS team. No contest.

Shaq averaged 33/16/5 with over 3 blocks PG in the finals. Who on GS would check him? Bogut would leave the NBA and move back to Australia after that series.

 

[dvillecatfan]

2001 Lakers lost 1 fluke playoff game to the Sixers. That team was the truth down the stretch.

my point exactly.. i was answering a question from earlier in thread.

 

[KingOfBBN]

You're making stuff up now. Anyone who even entertained the idea that Cleveland could win knew it would be a result of a Herculean effort by LeBron. He took a team that will be looked at very favorably by history to six games all by himself. This shouldn't effect his legacy at all because it's another instance of him dragging an underwhelming roster to the Finals and losing to a superior team.

Sports radio would not shut up after the Cavs won two and was praising his supporting cast and then like clockwork as soon as they lose, it's back to the same ole same ole.

BTW, Irving (played a game in the finals), JR. Smith, Thompson, Shump, etc are not scrubs. This is not the 2007 team.

So many of you guys wear Lebron pajamas.

 

[.S&C.]

Lebron is one of the best players today. No doubt. However, todays' game isn't the same as it was as it was in the late 80's early 90's.

One of? Lol. He's clearly the best player with the most value in the league. I agree though today's game is a shell of its former self.

 

[JohnKBA]

You guys are nuts. Do a draft of all the players in this series who actually played (and you can't count Irving.)

James goes #1, then what? How many GS players get picked before the next Cav gets taken? 5? 8? Its alot.

 

[UPSCat4080]

Yeah because Jordan won the title every year he played in the NBA. How is Lebron losing in the finals worse than losing before the finals?

In Jordan's time the Eastern conference was the IT conference. If you made it out of the east the finals game would be easier than the conference final. Jordan made the Finals 6 out of 15 years for 40% of the time.

As of now LeBron has made the Finals 6 out of 12 times for 50%. The West is the best conference so there is more competition for LeBron when his team makes the Final.

Jordan is the greatest of all time, but using his 6-0 vs 2-4 Finals record to justified is weak when considering Jordan's roster and his competition in the Finals.

Jordan played the Lakers, Utah twice, Seattle, Phoenix and the Trail Blazers.

LeBron has played the Spurs three times, Dallas, OKC and Golden State. In two of those he was the only player on his team who carried the load.

 

[JohnKBA]

That Phoenix team that the Bulls beat in 1993 would have beaten this Warriors team going away.

 

[SosaUK]

He did everything he could do as a player. He carried a team of role players, has-beens, and cast-offs to Game 6 of the finals.
However he sucks as a general manager. 2 number ones for one year of Love, playing a obviously hurt Irving, knowing they had no interior defense and doing nothing about it won't win GM of the year.
Paying the big bucks to the big three leaves no cap space for the other 10. High risk vs high reward.
They crapped out. Couldn't have happened to a nicer owner like D. Gilbert.
Personally I like the model of the Spurs, OKC, and Warriors where you build through the draft.

LeBron is the GM too? News to me. I'm not a hater or a pumper of his, I just don't care. With that said, the man put in work and took a bunch of scrubs to the NBA finals.

Give the man his props and leave it at that. Unless, you think you could do better?

 

[krazykats]

He hit the block all series. He put Barnes, Thompson and Green in the rim on a regular basis. When they switched Iggy onto him it made those post touches harder and Lebron less efficient. That's when Lebron could have benefitted from having Kyrie or Kevin Love. A second or third option that can make a shot when called upon. The Cavs had no shot making from their role players this series.

Yes he hit the block, but not enough. I know I saw more fadeaway's than post ups out of the best player in the world. You can scream Iggy all you want but come man even with him being a good defender Lebron should be able to handle that.

Not to go all Jordan>Lebron but the best usually do their best vs the best and then guard them too! Not Lebron!

Just frustrating when he is very damn capable!

 

[SosaUK]

Did somebody in this thread say that LeBron wasn't playing with scrubs? Really?

 

[LineSkiCat]

Umm, I think it's safe to call JR Smith and Shump scrubs. Especially JR Smith. That was a scrubtastic finals performance from start to finish. He has a scrub mentality..

 

[mj2k10]

You guys are nuts. Do a draft of all the players in this series who actually played (and you can't count Irving.)

James goes #1, then what? How many GS players get picked before the next Cav gets taken? 5? 8? Its alot.

Exactly. Not only that, replace LeBron with any other player in the league, give him the same supporting cast. How does the team fare against Golden State? How many games would they win in the regular season? (I go 30-35)

And all the idiots who think the game has somehow regressed never seem to have an explanation for why that would be. The money is greater than ever, meaning the motivation to succeed is huge. The talent pool is bigger than ever, and now pretty much spans the entire world. Training and diet are better than ever. Scouting is better than ever. On what logical basis do players somehow get worse under those circumstances? You may have special cases, elite guys who don't come around often (Shaq, Jordan, etc), and aren't easily replaceable, but to think that the ability level of players as a whole is somehow getting worse is some kind of magical fairy dust thinking totally removed from reality.

The game is different. It evolves. Every sport does. You may like older, different versions of the game more, but unless you get into a situation where there's a logical reason to think that the talent pool is getting shallower (see boxing for something like that. Basketball is actually the exact opposite), it's moronic to think that players are getting worse.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

They had D Fisher and Robert Horry. Both extremely clutch. Also had Rick Fox who was a solid role player. Not great but not awful either. Just meh. Kobe and Shaq carried that team though.

All of those had a PER below league average that season.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

are you saying that the 2015 GSW would beat the 2001 lakers? i do believe those lakers were as good if not better than these GSW.

In a seven-game series I would be inclined to go with this GSW team. That team was pretty old outside of Shaq, Kobe, and Fisher.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

Sports radio would not shut up after the Cavs won two and was praising his supporting cast and then like clockwork as soon as they lose, it's back to the same ole same ole.

BTW, Irving (played a game in the finals), JR. Smith, Thompson, Shump, etc are not scrubs. This is not the 2007 team.

So many of you guys wear Lebron pajamas.

Those guys are role players at best. You don't win a championship with one awesome player and a bunch of role players. For example, only other team Dellavedova wouldn't even have a chance to start on is the Knicks.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

You guys are nuts. Do a draft of all the players in this series who actually played (and you can't count Irving.)

James goes #1, then what? How many GS players get picked before the next Cav gets taken? 5? 8? Its alot.

Mozgov is a good player. GSW just had the personnel to neutralize him a bit. The vast majority of NBA teams wouldn't be able to run a small lineup like that consistently while still performing at a high level.

But are we drafting based on how good these players generally are or how they were in the Finals? That makes a big difference as Iggy wasn't anywhere near this good all season long.

But my list below is based on how good they generally are, not accounting for anything more than one season. As you will see, I thin the Cavs were consistently playing three of the four worst players that actually player, and Speights, the other one of the four, barely played. There's a reason why this Cavs supporting cast is statistically one of the three worst of all Finals teams, and LeBron's 2007 cast was one of the three worst as well. In fact, LeBron's 4th best Finals supporting cast would be Jordan's worst.

1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. K. Thompson
4. Green
5. Mozgov (he gets the nod over Iggy because quality centers a lot harder to find than a quality SF)
6. Iggy
7. David Lee
8. T. Thompson
9. Barnes (what Thompson does is harder to find than Barnes)
10. Livingston
11. Bogut
12. JR Smith
13. Ezeli
14. Barbosa
15. Shumpert
16. Speights
17. Dellavedova
18. James Jones

 

[Hoskins91]

I said he's up there with great company. Not sure what else you're wanting.

I guess to admit you are an idiot, but that's probably asking too much because you don't seem to be aware of it.

 

[Hoskins91]

A.I. 2001 vs. lakers....game 1

I guess I wasn't clear. I meant the series, not just a game.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

As a Lakers fan the 2000 Lakers were the best title team of the 5 in the 2000s...I think Rice as the 3rd option secures that. Plus, that 2000 team won 67 games like 2015 GS. 2000 LA would beat 2015 GS, but 2001 LA vs. GS (and 2002 LA) would be more interesting series. That said, the Lakers would have the best two players on the floor in both matchups.

 

[Hoskins91]

Sports radio would not shut up after the Cavs won two and was praising his supporting cast and then like clockwork as soon as they lose, it's back to the same ole same ole.

BTW, Irving (played a game in the finals), JR. Smith, Thompson, Shump, etc are not scrubs. This is not the 2007 team.

So many of you guys wear Lebron pajamas.

You think the roster that played in the Finals even sniffs the playoffs if LeBron were not on it? The guy isn't perfect, but the fact they made the Finals and that it was even competitive is a testament to how good he is.

 

[Aike]

In a seven-game series I would be inclined to go with this GSW team. That team was pretty old outside of Shaq, Kobe, and Fisher.

Did you watch the 2001 Lakers playoff run or just look up the roster? That team was nearly unstoppable.

 

[KA4Prez]

The comparisons should stop, for now. However, LeBron has played in 6 NBA Finals. He's 30 years old.

He's got a roster and a team that could conceivably win 2 or 3 titles, maybe more.

By time LBJ is done, he will have played in double digit NBA Finals and probably won at least 4. While he had good talent with him, he'll never be known as a guy who was on a stacked, dynasty-riding team.

 

[Aike]

As a Lakers fan the 2000 Lakers were the best title team of the 5 in the 2000s...I think Rice as the 3rd option secures that. Plus, that 2000 team won 67 games like 2015 GS. 2000 LA would beat 2015 GS, but 2001 LA vs. GS (and 2002 LA) would be more interesting series. That said, the Lakers would have the best two players on the floor in both matchups.

The Lakers best playoff run was absolutely 2001. Everyone was healthy and everything was clicking. They missed running the table by one game.

 

[Aike]

Exactly. Not only that, replace LeBron with any other player in the league, give him the same supporting cast. How does the team fare against Golden State? How many games would they win in the regular season? (I go 30-35)

And all the idiots who think the game has somehow regressed never seem to have an explanation for why that would be. The money is greater than ever, meaning the motivation to succeed is huge. The talent pool is bigger than ever, and now pretty much spans the entire world. Training and diet are better than ever. Scouting is better than ever. On what logical basis do players somehow get worse under those circumstances? You may have special cases, elite guys who don't come around often (Shaq, Jordan, etc), and aren't easily replaceable, but to think that the ability level of players as a whole is somehow getting worse is some kind of magical fairy dust thinking totally removed from reality.

The game is different. It evolves. Every sport does. You may like older, different versions of the game more, but unless you get into a situation where there's a logical reason to think that the talent pool is getting shallower (see boxing for something like that. Basketball is actually the exact opposite), it's moronic to think that players are getting worse.

To be fair, Kyrie didn't go down until game 1 of the finals. We don't have a large enough sample to know how Lebron would have fared all season playing with these scrubs, let alone how a different superstar would have done.

It was a game effort to pull off a couple of wins, but the likelihood is that not even Lebron could have pulled off much with this crew over an entire season.

 

[LineSkiCat]

Cavs shouldn't have let JR Smith back on the plane. Just basically said "We'll cover your expenses, airfair, rest of contract, etc.. we just... don't want you .. anywhere NEAR our team.."

Sure enough, he's opting out of his final year.

 

[DraftCat]

History will remember 2-4 or whatever he ends up with. Only basketball junkies like ourselves will remember 07 and 15. Unfortunately for Lebron not many people like "context" because it takes too much effort to research esp if you are a newer fan of the game.

 

[LineSkiCat]

I hope I never become so self-inflated that I completely shit my pants during my company's BIGGEST 2-week project of the year, and have the gall to think I deserve a raise. That's essentially what JR Smith is doing right now. Knucklehead is a good term for it.. I don't think there's been a bigger knucklehead than JR Smith since Javale McGee's time on the Wizards..

 

[DraftCat]

Honestly I can't believe I'm going to sit here and defend JR Smith. But the Cavs absolutely used him wrong in this series. Whether you agree or not this is what I think. When it comes too perimeter shooting JR Smith is 10x better one on one player than Lebron is. Instead of isoing Lebron 95% of the game they should of let JR try too get hot and take his man one on one. I'm not sure letting Jr Smith roam around and wait for a pass from Lebron was the answer.

 

[LineSkiCat]

He's got the talent, but I'm starting to question if he has the mentality to even be worth it for any team. He's a borderline cancer at this point.

 

[TransyCat09]

2015 Cavs w/o Lebron >>> 2001 Sixers w/o Iverson.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

Did you watch the 2001 Lakers playoff run or just look up the roster? That team was nearly unstoppable.

Yes I watched it. The supporting cast of GSW is better than the supporting cast that Kobe/Shaq had.