Giles down to final five. Kentucky included.
- Thread starter Son_Of_Saul
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Well I guess you don't watch UK games. Yes, Cal would have sat Okafor if he didn't play defense. Cal has sat a lot of top players who didn't play defense. Hell most of the time he benches them if they make one mistake which I don't like.
For not playing defense... absolutely. I also believe Cal would have had him on the treadmill.
Duke won the ultimate prize and Okafor had a great year no question. At the same time you really can't argue with Cal's results at getting players drafted. It does make a difference what school they go to.
Absolutely, and Duke & K have quite a good record. Think you're splitting hairs here.
That's all I'm saying is that Cal will bench you no matter how many stars are beside your name if you aren't playing hard, and defense is all about playing hard. Okafor slacked on defense, but as the other UK fan said you won the title so hats off to you. I was really hoping for a UK/Duke title game, but we failed.
- Giles is an awesome talent. That said, I think he has a me-first attitude and can be lazy on defense. No doubt Coach K can straighten that out.
- Coach K has done a fine job of showcasing freshman. What gets me are the Duke fans who have said for YEARS that Coach Cal is ruining basketball because of one and done. Then K does it and it's all of a sudden okay. Hell, Elton Brand was two and done and Duke fan raked him over the coals so much that he had to write a letter to the Duke fan base explaining his situation.
- Duke fans are happy now, but Kentucky fans know that winning a title isn't the hardest part of the one and done era...maintaining success every year is the truly tough part. I think Duke is going to have a much tougher year than many people think this season.
- Dennis Smith will not be at Duke or Kentucky. He will be at NC State with Bam Adebayo.
- The State of North Carolina has four blue chip players this year, UNC definitely will not get three of them...and is 50/50 at best for the fourth, and least highly rated (SKJ). Something we call all be happy and laugh about.
- Coach K has done a fine job of showcasing freshman. What gets me are the Duke fans who have said for YEARS that Coach Cal is ruining basketball because of one and done. Then K does it and it's all of a sudden okay. Hell, Elton Brand was two and done and Duke fan raked him over the coals so much that he had to write a letter to the Duke fan base explaining his situation.
- Duke fans are happy now, but Kentucky fans know that winning a title isn't the hardest part of the one and done era...maintaining success every year is the truly tough part. I think Duke is going to have a much tougher year than many people think this season.
- Dennis Smith will not be at Duke or Kentucky. He will be at NC State with Bam Adebayo.
- The State of North Carolina has four blue chip players this year, UNC definitely will not get three of them...and is 50/50 at best for the fourth, and least highly rated (SKJ). Something we call all be happy and laugh about.
Reasonable post.
Don't know about Giles being me first... I don't know him that well. As you say, I am sure K can iron that out. Duke usually doesn't have problems with attitudes... K runs the program with an iron fist, and there isn't a lot of leeway allowed.McRoberts never seemed to buy in, and there were problems with the a Rivers team, but generally they are few and far between. The Brand thing was completely embarrassing.
Again, the K/Cal comparisons just aren't valid yet. First, K never dismissed a group of players to make room for his own players. Second, K has had exactly one season with more than a single OAD, and of the three only one was really expected. I assume he will start having more of them, although this next season doesn't seem likely for that to happen (likely only Ingram). I think the Giles/Tatum class will be the second class from K to have more than a single OAD. And the two coaches just don't approach it the same way. Cal has been repeatedly explicit that NBA and individual success are two of his key driving forces. K has been repeatedly explicit that Duke success is his driving force. While some of that is simply marketing of the program, I do think the two have some fundamental differences in how the two approach things. So I just don't see this as a "Well now K is just like Cal" thing.
As a Duke fan, it is interesting having a team where you are suddenly missing so much. But K hasn't seemed like he will be doing huge, repeated classes of one and dones. If he does, then yes, sustaining it will be tough, but k has a lot of experience with bringing in three and four year guys to teach the culture and provide stability. But yes, sustaining excellence is DAMN hard, OAD or not. In the twenty years since I graduated from Duke, K has done a pretty good job.
Agreed on Smith.
And UNC should never get another player again. Cheating sacks of crap... Now trying to throw the women's team under the bus, because, you know, decades of cheating is TOTALLY a about women's b-ball.
- Giles has an attitude that many 17-year-old kids who have been told they're great for years have. I think he's probably very coachable, but K is going to have to knock that out of Giles.
- Cal has never rushed players out to make room. I'm not even really sure who you're referring to? The twins? They were trying to leave last season. Cal isn't stupid, having junior Harrison twins who know his system, what he wants, and that have played at the highest level would make his job MUCH easier.
- Coach K can publicly say what he wants about the players being "Duke First"...he knows that getting to the NBA, fast, is a huge selling point. And he is capitalizing on it, good for him. It's impressive that a 68-year-old coach, having had that much success, is so willing to change with the times.
- Now, I do think Calipari is better at showcasing players. The reason being? Cal tailors the style of play any given season on his player's strengths. Look at the John Wall/Cousins team, then look at the Brandon Knight/Terrence Jones team, then look at last year. Totally different, all of them.
That's not to say that K does a bad job. I think he does the second best job behind Cal, better than say Self. And although he changes a little when he has a dominate big, for the most part K doesn't change his strategy to suit his team.
- What pisses me off the most about Roy right now is his blatant lying to recruits. He told SKJ that UNC Men's Basketball was NOT names in the Notice of Allegations, when in section five, his program is CLEARLY named. Extremely unethical to lie to a 17-year-old kid about his possible future with the biggest decision of his life coming up.
- Cal has never rushed players out to make room. I'm not even really sure who you're referring to? The twins? They were trying to leave last season. Cal isn't stupid, having junior Harrison twins who know his system, what he wants, and that have played at the highest level would make his job MUCH easier.
- Coach K can publicly say what he wants about the players being "Duke First"...he knows that getting to the NBA, fast, is a huge selling point. And he is capitalizing on it, good for him. It's impressive that a 68-year-old coach, having had that much success, is so willing to change with the times.
- Now, I do think Calipari is better at showcasing players. The reason being? Cal tailors the style of play any given season on his player's strengths. Look at the John Wall/Cousins team, then look at the Brandon Knight/Terrence Jones team, then look at last year. Totally different, all of them.
That's not to say that K does a bad job. I think he does the second best job behind Cal, better than say Self. And although he changes a little when he has a dominate big, for the most part K doesn't change his strategy to suit his team.
- What pisses me off the most about Roy right now is his blatant lying to recruits. He told SKJ that UNC Men's Basketball was NOT names in the Notice of Allegations, when in section five, his program is CLEARLY named. Extremely unethical to lie to a 17-year-old kid about his possible future with the biggest decision of his life coming up.
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I'll take your word on the first point... I dont know a ton about Giles as a person.
Second point, I meant when Cal first came in. He basically remade the team like he wanted it, and made it clear that a number of the current guys weren't part of the plan. I am not weighing in on if this was right or wrong; on the one hand, a coach SHOULD have the freedom to make his team as he wants it, but on the other, you feel for the kids who were already there. But that IS one of several big differences between K and Cal when you discuss their approach and the perception of them regarding OADs.
Obviously K knows how important getting to the league is; he has said about guys like Jabari and Jah that he expects them to only play a year. But again, when comparing Cal and K through the OAD lens, their statements and approach is a pretty big difference. I don't think it is just a surface thing, either; I think, and have seen it demonstrated many times over the 25 years or so of watching Duke and listening to K and people around the program, that the idea of the many being more important than the one is a HUGE thing. Not unexpected for a West Point guy, if you know those sorts.
And I think K usually does a good job adapting. Yes, long ago he figured that the three point shot nets more points than the two... But this year he ran a TON of zone. 2010? He really packed it in... He didn't have the athletes or depth for his usual extended-D method of play. When we have a lot of shooters (which is often!) we shoot a ton of threes. When we have guys like Brand or Williams or Mason Plumlee, the bigs are a centerpiece of the offense. Carlos Boozer breaks his foot at the end of the year? Suddenly a guy who is six four is playing center. K has had his years where he seems to be stubbornly sticking with something and made us yell at the TV, but a lot of guys do. Overall I think he is pretty good about adapting to personel... certainly better than a guy like Roy. Honestly, I don't know Cal well enough to know how much he changes his approach from year to year. All I know is "dribble drive"
And yeah... Roy is a scumball of the highest order. I mean, who in the hell speaks about themselves in the third person? You losing games is as bad as Haiti? Are you F'ing kidding me? And now he insists he knows nothing, even though he said he was all over his guys education and he gets six figure bonuses for them, and he brought his own academics guy over from Kansas, who he said was the most important guy in the program? I just hope that recruits know he is lying, and judging by the lack of commits it seems they do.
- Cal's first year, ahh, that makes more sense. I can see both sides, but in the end I believe what Cal did was right. Those players weren't going to play and would be miserable anyway. Cal was honest and told them that they weren't right for what he wanted to do and they had the opportunity to go somewhere else where they could play (It also turns out that Cal was correct, because none of them did anything of note anywhere else).
- Cal has run almost zero dribble drive since he has been at UK. It's pure marketing. Why? None of his teams have really been suited for the dribble drive system, 2012 a little bit...and we saw it more that year than any year. This year looks like it might be the best chance to see it. Ulis, Briscoe, and Murray can all get to the rim...and Poythress is great when he can clean things up and not have to create. Skal is a guy with a nice touch that will be a threat facing the basket in the DD system, still we'll see.
- I mean, K does change up, but only when absolutely necessary (like when Boozer went down). Cal does it every year, he makes his style fit the players and not the other way around. Again, it's hard to argue with K's style, as he's been incredibly successful. But I think in terms of strictly showcasing players, Cal does it better. Although Duke does a fine job as well.
- Cal has run almost zero dribble drive since he has been at UK. It's pure marketing. Why? None of his teams have really been suited for the dribble drive system, 2012 a little bit...and we saw it more that year than any year. This year looks like it might be the best chance to see it. Ulis, Briscoe, and Murray can all get to the rim...and Poythress is great when he can clean things up and not have to create. Skal is a guy with a nice touch that will be a threat facing the basket in the DD system, still we'll see.
- I mean, K does change up, but only when absolutely necessary (like when Boozer went down). Cal does it every year, he makes his style fit the players and not the other way around. Again, it's hard to argue with K's style, as he's been incredibly successful. But I think in terms of strictly showcasing players, Cal does it better. Although Duke does a fine job as well.
Do some research on just how insane Billy Gillispie was, and his bizarro recruiting where he seemed to pay no regard whatsoever to scholarship limits, seemingly intent on just cycling through players. Cal could have paid the penance for the sins of his predecessor, but no one would have been too happy with that, including the guys who left- which, BTW, was really only 2, Kevin Galloway and Matt Pilgrim. The rest were guys who had never played a second for UK, commits for 09-10 and beyond who clearly had no real place in Cal's version of the UK program.
Then let's talk about all the guys that have transferred out of Duke. You're right that Krzyzewski has never found himself in an overbook situation, but there have been a far higher percentage of K recruits transfer out than Cal recruits at UK (2, basically, Stacey Poole and Kyle Wiltjer).
Yeah, I am a bit torn on the thing his first year, but he is the coach and he can do what he wants; it is his program. If he knew guys wouldn't fit, so be it. I know that if I were a UK fan I would say it was a tough situation but he did the right thing in the end. Regardless, it does play a part in why the public (of which the media is a part) percieves Cal and K differently... That first impression that Cal made was huge.
As I said, "dribble drive"
. That's why I put the quotation marks. Unless you closely follow a team, the media doesn't do a lot of analysis of coaching in the current day and age.Agree to disagree I suppose about Cal and K, although I think our disagreement is as much about our respective fandom as anything else
. Lord knows Cal has had historic success in his time at UK, on several different levels.It seems to be a little early to be claiming who will be the best players or who will have the best recruiting class for '16. The player ratings will be adjusted quite a few times between now and next spring and there will probably kids in the top 10 that we haven't heard much about right now. Not many power 5 schools were recruiting Anthony Davis before he blew up in the summer after his junior season. Players like Gary Trent and Markell Fultz improved their stock greatly this summer. Some kids develop later than others and some seem to stop improving or even regress as they get older.
Krzyzewski is the first coach to adopt Cal's approach to recruiting and he had great success last season. The 3 1 and done players he had were all projected as the top 1 or 2 players at their position and they lived up to those projections. It will be interesting to see if he can sustain that success with the 1 and done players the way Cal has since he's been at UK.
Krzyzewski is the first coach to adopt Cal's approach to recruiting and he had great success last season. The 3 1 and done players he had were all projected as the top 1 or 2 players at their position and they lived up to those projections. It will be interesting to see if he can sustain that success with the 1 and done players the way Cal has since he's been at UK.
Giles seems to be an excellent young man, but I would be highly surprised to see him any place except Duke when the smoke clears. With that said, UK will bring him a handful of five star players and be just fine as well.
Duke is after Jackson for a PG in that class, not Smith.
I expect Duke to sign Tatum, Giles, and Jackson.
They will return everyone but Ingram, most likely.
Thornton, Jackson, Jones, Tatum, and Giles will be their starters. Allen will be sixth man.
I expect Duke to sign Tatum, Giles, and Jackson.
They will return everyone but Ingram, most likely.
Thornton, Jackson, Jones, Tatum, and Giles will be their starters. Allen will be sixth man.
You seem to have it all figured out, huh?
If you are right and Jeter returns but isn't a starter, then he isn't what he is as advertised.
Not sure if any are predicting Chase to be OAD. Also, that starting lineup is not accurate. More than likely (assuming we get Jackson and Giles):You seem to have it all figured out, huh?
If you are right and Jeter returns but isn't a starter, then he isn't what he is as advertised.
Thornton (Jackson off the bench)
Allen/Jones
Tatum
Giles
Jeter
Nobody thinks Chase Jeter is a OAD talent. Can you find any mock draft where he is listed? Guy will take a year or two to come along. Which is just fine, because having him at the 5, Giles at the 4, Tatum at the 3, Kennard or Allen at the 2, and Thornton or Jackson at the 1 is a fantastic lineup.
Just my opinion, but based on my observations:
K won't play Giles at the 4. He doesn't have the perimeter skills to play the 4 for K. K likes to play four perimeter players around one post player (which I wish Cal would do more often).
Tatum will play the 4. He will follow in a long line of SFs playing the 4 for K. Battier, Singler, Parker, Winslow, and probably Ingram this year.
Now Jackson might not start, but I think he will because K likes having two ballhandlers on the floor together (Jones/Cook, Cook/Curry, Curry/Rivers, etc.) and Jackson is more talented than Allen, IMHO.
I think Jones starts at the 3 over Allen because of his defense and experience. K loves having a Senior in the lineup.
Jeter will likely be the 7th man (first big off the bench).
I'm not an expert, this is just my prediction based on what I have seen from K and his tendencies recently.
LOL at the Duke fans as alot of what they say is correct but man how they say it is soooo like a duke fan .
![[devil]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1681918.png "Devil [devil]")
