From Gran, to Coen, to … Nothing

[bballcat4]

Good offenses have to have something they hang their hat on regardless if other team knows what you’re doing. Gran adjusted his gameplan to emphasize an excellent running game behind some road graders. It led to a 10-win season and opponents knew UK was going to be a difficult game.

Several fans lamented the style and lobbied for a more balanced attack and better skill players. To the detractor’s defense, if UK got behind by 10-14 points it was nearly impossible to catch up. It was also apparent that we could probably not break through the glass ceiling and climb into the upper tier of the SEC. However, we were solidly sitting in the next tier of SEC teams behind the top 4-5 teams. The style (plus lots of QB injuries) was being used against us in recruiting.

Gran fell on the sword, while remaining with the program. (That’s unique and says a lot about the culture of the program.) Coen comes in and we immediately bring in some key transfers and some young skill talent. The best thing that happened to Coen was also inheriting a good OL. The OL continuity was just assumed because they continually put players in the league and were good. Coen (round 1) incorporated the deep shot off play action. We were dangerous and more balanced. Two 10-win seasons in 3 years, and UK football is experiencing success that had not been experienced in 50+ years!

Coen leaves and we are still balanced, but not really excellent at anything. OL shows cracks, but we wrote it off to poor OL coaching, OL transition and complex terminology.

Coen (round 2) still incorporated the balance from his first stint, along with similar principle of deep shots built off of play action. The QB play wasnt as good as his first stint. Skill players dropped too many passes. Plus, the OL was still not dominant. An NFL rb (Davis) caused teams to fear our running game, but we couldn’t leverage it to do much with our passing game.

Coen departed for a second time and we hired Hamdan. The major difference was the timing of Coen’s departure, combined with incoming transfers and recruiting. Hamdan has not impressed me, but the roster was put together before he arrived. The one glaring issue is the continual decline of OL play. I don’t think that can be laid at BH’s feet. Frankly, I don’t know where to place the blame. Yes, ultimately is responsibility of the HC, but that still doesn’t explain how it happened. The loss of an entire class of (highly recruited) OL hurt us more than we thought at the time. Goodwin, Hall, Bingham and Young were supposed to be starting this year. They’re not even on the roster. MCox didn’t forget how to play. He must be playing on some very bad legs. Mincey and Farmer are struggling. The RT position looks like a turnstile with opposing DEs racking up record sack numbers.

Bottom line, I have no clue what our offensive identity is, or even what BH wants it to be. Maybe, this is because of OL. Maybe, its because he had no input on personnel.

I miss the days of knowing Gran was going to smash a team in the mouth and mid tier OL were coached up to be aggressive linemen. (Yes, I know it is much easier for OL to run block vs pass block.) But, it played to our strengths. Maybe 9-10 wins is the ceiling for that style of team. But, I miss those 8-10 win seasons!

 

[jeffky]

Our best qb in the Stoops era was a slot receiver stoops has got to go

 

[YardCat]

If you are a passing QB, you aren’t coming to UK to hand the ball off 75% of the time. If, we are going to go back to be a running team, find a running QB and run the option. We do have an identity at UK this year, we are just a bottom dwelling team in the SEC with no offense and a depleted defense. Can’t get much worse this year unless we lose to Murray!

 

[ukfan1622]

I agree op. I just wish our problems ended with the offense but I'm sure some coaches would have had a lock down defense with what we have this year. When you play a 3-4 defense and you have a tackle like Walker that needs to be double teamed, Stoops passive zone is the worst possible defense to play. If, on passing situations, we played tight man to man and rushed 2-3 besides the lineman every time(from different spots) it would not matter if our backs got beat because the qb would never have time to find them and get them the ball. Whether it's offense, defense, or special teams something has been poorly coached the entirety of Stoops tenure. There's really only one guy to blame for that...

 

[bballcat4]

I agree op. I just wish our problems ended with the offense but I'm sure some coaches would have had a lock down defense with what we have this year. When you play a 3-4 defense and you have a tackle like Walker that needs to be double teamed, Stoops passive zone is the worst possible defense to play. If, on passing situations, we played tight man to man and rushed 2-3 besides the lineman every time(from different spots) it would not matter if our backs got beat because the qb would never have time to find them and get them the ball. Whether it's offense, defense, or special teams something has been poorly coached the entirety of Stoops tenure. There's really only one guy to blame for that...

We’ve had some excellent defenses over Stoops’ tenure. But, there’s no denying what an excellent edge rusher does for a team. Josh Allen made QBs look over their shoulder because they knew he was coming.

I agree with you about mixing in some different blitzes from time to time. White will sneak in a CB blitz once a game, but they’re up front that their main focus is to prevent the home run play.

 

[FirewithFire]

Our best qb in the Stoops era was a slot receiver stoops has got to go

You must have forgotten about a guy name Will Levis.

 

[jeffky]

You must have forgotten about a guy name Will Levis.

First year levis maybe 2nd year levis no it's arguable with Lynn but he ranks high up there you might be missing the underlying point 😉

 

[CrimsonCats]

I will give Gran credit for what a feat of improvisation it was installing practically a new offense mid season in 2019 and salvaging a decent season with nobody healthy who was really even capable of throwing the ball. Overall though, I think this season being such a trainwreck is causing some people to remember those offenses more fondly than is really warranted. Yes, we won 10 games in 2018, but that was mostly with a generational defense carrying the team in spite of the stale offense. In his five seasons as OC, we ranked 60th, 84th, 89th, 85th, and 107th in points per game and 56th, 106th, 109th, 76th, and 115th in yards per game.

The truth is that Stoops has never figured out how to get a consistently effective offense going in his entire tenure, and he has to own that after 12 years and 6 coordinators. You can’t win big on a consistent basis by only playing one side of the ball, and especially when that side is defense with how the game has evolved over those 12 years. I’d like a fresh start at this point, even though I’m afraid it’s unlikely.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I will give Gran credit for what a feat of improvisation it was installing practically a new offense mid season in 2019 and salvaging a decent season with nobody healthy who was really even capable of throwing the ball. Overall though, I think this season being such a trainwreck is causing some people to remember those offenses more fondly than is really warranted. Yes, we won 10 games in 2018, but that was mostly with a generational defense carrying the team in spite of the stale offense. In his five seasons as OC, we ranked 60th, 84th, 89th, 85th, and 107th in points per game and 56th, 106th, 109th, 76th, and 115th in yards per game.

The truth is that Stoops has never figured out how to get a consistently effective offense going in his entire tenure, and he has to own that after 12 years and 6 coordinators. You can’t win big on a consistent basis by only playing one side of the ball, and especially when that side is defense with how the game has evolved over those 12 years. I’d like a fresh start at this point, even though I’m afraid it’s unlikely.

Would CMS and Gann been doing a better job if they had ranked top 20 in all those categories and won 7 games? Stoops and company knew their roster and knew they couldn't win track meet games, so they schemed to UK's strength, run the ball, control the clock and play defense. That didn't put up offensive numbers but put games in the win column. That isn't saying it isn't time for a change, but he was scheming to win games, not put up stats.

 

[3632]

gran did a good job of using what he had. He was sacrificed because stoops wanted/needed to change the narrative. They had been so run focused that they couldn’t get any skill perimeter recruits and at the end of the day you’re just limited with what they were doing. But it wasnt grans fault it was just an expediant way to change the story to recruits and in particular wandale who came back after gran was gone and under the promise and hope of passing more with Coen. He had even verbally said he didn’t consider Kentucky out of hs because of the offense style. It all worked out for that season with he and Levis and Coen so getting rid of Gran got us that season…but the other seasons have been back to what we were doing with gran when we were getting essentially block wr…..except there seems to be more inconsistency to it.

 

[CrimsonCats]

Would CMS and Gann been doing a better job if they had ranked top 20 in all those categories and won 7 games? Stoops and company knew their roster and knew they couldn't win track meet games, so they schemed to UK's strength, run the ball, control the clock and play defense. That didn't put up offensive numbers but put games in the win column. That isn't saying it isn't time for a change, but he was scheming to win games, not put up stats.

I mean, they basically were winning 7 games except for that one season. During that five year tenure, we won 7, 7, 10, 8, and 5 (out of 11 in a shortened season). 2018 was definitely a memorable season for us, but it was also an outlier with the benefit of hindsight (the other 10 win season in 2021 was with Coen implementing the one above average passing offense we’ve ever had).

I’m not saying Gran was necessarily the worst coach ever or anything, but this narrative that he had it rolling and got canned in a misguided attempt to chase style points doesn’t really match reality.

 

[Eccain01]

I will give Gran credit for what a feat of improvisation it was installing practically a new offense mid season in 2019 and salvaging a decent season with nobody healthy who was really even capable of throwing the ball. Overall though, I think this season being such a trainwreck is causing some people to remember those offenses more fondly than is really warranted. Yes, we won 10 games in 2018, but that was mostly with a generational defense carrying the team in spite of the stale offense. In his five seasons as OC, we ranked 60th, 84th, 89th, 85th, and 107th in points per game and 56th, 106th, 109th, 76th, and 115th in yards per game.

The truth is that Stoops has never figured out how to get a consistently effective offense going in his entire tenure, and he has to own that after 12 years and 6 coordinators. You can’t win big on a consistent basis by only playing one side of the ball, and especially when that side is defense with how the game has evolved over those 12 years. I’d like a fresh start at this point, even though I’m afraid it’s unlikely.

Thank you lol. We were not good on offense at all lmaoo. We could run the ball that’s about it

 

[bballcat4]

I mean, they basically were winning 7 games except for that one season. During that five year tenure, we won 7, 7, 10, 8, and 5 (out of 11 in a shortened season). 2018 was definitely a memorable season for us, but it was also an outlier with the benefit of hindsight (the other 10 win season in 2021 was with Coen implementing the one above average passing offense we’ve ever had).

I’m not saying Gran was necessarily the worst coach ever or anything, but this narrative that he had it rolling and got canned in a misguided attempt to chase style points doesn’t really match reality.

I agree that Gran’s last few years had a ceiling to the number of possible wins, but he raised the floor. They certainly were not going to light up the scoreboard or stat sheets. It was more of Sun Tzu for football. “When teams have more talent, then you slow the game down, limit opponent’s snaps, then take away their will by running down their throat.” My real point is that everyone knew our identity.

I credit Stoops for bringing in Coen and trying to raise our ceiling with a pro style offense. Again, everyone knew our identity. I don’t think anyone now knows our identity, including our staff!!! I’m sure they thought they knew what it was going to be. But, every game seems to be different and scattered all over the map. Sometimes it feels like we’re trying to run every play on the play sheet instead of finding a rhythm with something that is working.

 

[azubuikefan]

First year levis maybe 2nd year levis no it's arguable with Lynn but he ranks high up there you might be missing the underlying point 😉

2nd year Levis was better than Bowden. Stop it. Why say false shit to prove a point when it's not needed? Hell, Leary is in the NFL while Bowden is unemployed.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I mean, they basically were winning 7 games except for that one season. During that five year tenure, we won 7, 7, 10, 8, and 5 (out of 11 in a shortened season). 2018 was definitely a memorable season for us, but it was also an outlier with the benefit of hindsight (the other 10 win season in 2021 was with Coen implementing the one above average passing offense we’ve ever had).

I’m not saying Gran was necessarily the worst coach ever or anything, but this narrative that he had it rolling and got canned in a misguided attempt to chase style points doesn’t really match reality.

And were still near the bottom of the conference in talent at that point. With today's rules it's harder to rank rosters, but I think it's safe to say UK is around 10th. Has tried to open things up and run a modern offense and it hasn't worked as well. CMS has been at UK for awhile, and it could be time for a change, but he has elevated UK and if he is gone he is leaving it in better shape than when he got here. But the SEC has gotten tougher, new schools have been added, no Derrick Dooleys are getting hired as head coaches and everyone is trying to win. If a change is made, there is no guarantees, the OC lit up group defenses but struggles to score in the SEC.

 

[rick64]

The Gran offense at UK for whatever reason never resembled the offense he ran at UC. Did he never have the personnel? Agreed SEC defenses have higher caliber players. Or did Stoopid limit the playbook? He said he didn’t but I’m not sure if I buy it.

 

[gobigbluebell]

Offense requires an offensive line. We haven’t had one in years. We also haven’t had an OL coach in years.

 

[3632]

And were still near the bottom of the conference in talent at that point. With today's rules it's harder to rank rosters, but I think it's safe to say UK is around 10th. Has tried to open things up and run a modern offense and it hasn't worked as well. CMS has been at UK for awhile, and it could be time for a change, but he has elevated UK and if he is gone he is leaving it in better shape than when he got here. But the SEC has gotten tougher, new schools have been added, no Derrick Dooleys are getting hired as head coaches and everyone is trying to win. If a change is made, there is no guarantees, the OC lit up group defenses but struggles to score in the SEC.

If you’re comparing us to the uga level you are right. But the games that determined our seasons in the division era were sc, Vandy, mizzou, Louisville and miss state. All places that don’t have program or talent advantages. Just a matter of who is doing it better. Under some coaches we’ve bested them and under others they best us. With the new schedule we don’t get that gift of a schedule every year but we also are getting top 25 classes now so we have enough to compete for any mid tier games. I get the old narrative of Kentucky and yes it’s right compared to you guys or Alabama or whatever but whatever personnel issues there are come more from mismanagement of roster or game coaching issues. He has a losing record against the current coaches at Vandy and sc and .500 vs mizzou although they’ve been in process of incrementally passing us…we’ll see as it goes forward with brohm at Louisville. But all of those were win stackers for a 4/5 year stretch through ‘21. If I had to pick one fact that is condemning of stoops recent season performances it’s that he has a losing record against Beamer